<p>Hello everyone! I have a difficult decision I have to make, and I would really appreciate your input. Soo, right now, I'm deciding between two schools: Williams College and UCSD through the Medical Scholars Program. Through the Medical Program, I have a guaranteed spot into UCSD Medical School. I don't have to take the MCAT, but I need to maintain a 3.5 GPA and attend UCSD as an undergraduate. It's also not binding; so, I can apply to other medical schools without losing my place in the UCSD School of Medicine. But, I absolutely love Williams, and everything about it - the small environment, the amazing professors, the great relationships between the students - everything. I know Williams' value in getting students to the top grad/med schools, but at the same time, I can't exactly easily give up my admission to the UCSD SOM. Would it be a better choice to go to Williams?</p>
<p>What if you decide you don’t want to be an MD?</p>
<p>I’ve wanted to be a doctor my whole life, and I know that sounds so common, but after everything, I know for sure I want to be one</p>
<p>I have no connection with Williams, except that my S is interested in it, but I do want to comment on your situation. When I was an undergrad at UT-Austin I had a female friend who turned down an offer by Washington U in St. Louis for a joint BS/MD program of six years because she thought she could go to UT in Plan II and then get into a better medical school. While she had an outstanding GPA and did well on the MCAT, she did not get into a better medical school. She did get into several medical schools and became an MD, but for many years she really regretted having turned down the Wash U offer.</p>
<p>I know that Williams and UT Plan II are quite different, but if you are as positive you want to become an MD as my friend was, think long and hard before you turn down that offer.</p>
<p>I agree. I am a Williams mom, and I say that if you’re completely sure you point to be a doctor take the joint degree. Those spots are hard to get.</p>
<p>OTOH my S went to Williams wanting to be a doctor but changed his mind and is now in an Art History grad program.</p>
<p>As usual, I agree with mythmom. I have a colleague who graduated from JHU and it has taken her at least 4 years to get into medical school. As for changing your mind, my son was positive that he wanted to be a doctor so went to the UK where you enter directly into medical school, then he also changed his mind. </p>
<p>One other comment. While I am a very strong proponent of the LAC undergrad experience, at least the down side if you change your mind means that you will have to ‘suffer’ through going to school in LaJolla (-;.</p>
<p>Ps for what it’s worth, my other S who is totally committed to LACs without hesitation said, go to UCSD, which really surprised me.</p>
<p>I’m going to have to take a minority position. You want to be a doctor. You want a liberal arts education. You want what Williams offers. </p>
<p>I see no reason why you can’t have all three. It may take you a little longer. It may cost a lot more. But there are plenty of Williams grads who I suspect are better doctors because of their Williams experience. Aside from being excellent doctors at the top of their fields, they are also intellectually vibrant human beings. </p>
<p>Could you get the same intellectually charged and academically challenging at UCSD? Maybe yes, maybe no, but the style of learning and academic atmosphere would be dramatically different. You have to decide what is best for you. </p>
<p>Money may be an issue for you (as it is for most of us), but if the financials are not your major concern I’d suggest you think more about what Williams could do for you intellectually, separate from your long term goals of becoming a doctor.</p>
<p>It’s impossible for a young person to predict what they will regret later in life. In my son’s case (not medicine, but an arts related field) he chose 4 years of Williams plus nearly 4 years of graduate school versus a 5 year professional program that would have landed him in more or less the same career position. Despite the time and money I know he doesn’t – and won’t – regret the investment he made in a Williams education.</p>
<p>I have to chime in here. I did not go to Williams but another top LAC, majored in English, took 2 years off and then went to a top medical school. I don’t think my undergraduate experience had much to do with the kind of doctor I am. My medical school, however, did, and more importantly my residency. Medicine is SUCH a broad field. Do you want to be a clinician, academic, teacher, researcher, all of the above? Do you want to practice in an underserved area? These are important decisions you will have to make, and really speak to who you are as a person, and what you value. It may influence which medical school you ultimately choose. In my medical school there were several people who did an 8 year program with the undergraduate school at that institution and some were really interesting people and some were not. Some ended up being truly great doctors and others mediocre. Giving up a a guaranteed spot is a huge decision, not to mention the financial side of this decision. Knowing that you have a spot in medical school may truly be liberating for you and may allow you to explore and enjoy your undergraduate experience in ways you may not be able otherwise. I would not throw this away lightly no matter how wonderful Williams is. Ultimately you will need to dig deep down and figure out what you value. Good luck on a very difficult decision.</p>
<p>Lock in the Medical School spot. One bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.</p>
<p>I came to college thinking I wanted to be a philosopher. I became a neurologist and later became both a psychoanalyst and Anglican clergymen.</p>
<p>I write this because you may not really know what you want to do or be. 18 is very early to “lock” yourself in. If you attend Williams and do even moderately well–med school will be there for you-- and you will be a better doctor for having waited. </p>
<p>Being grown up is a long time…unless for financial or family reasons you have to rush it…don’t.</p>
<p>I bow to the experience of the physicians on the thread, though their advice is a bit contradictory.</p>
<p>I guess you must judge how much a liberal arts education means to you.</p>
<p>My son has truly discovered himself as an Art Historian, and this is a field he never considered before getting a job at the Clark Museum. Without Williams he would not have discovered his true vocation.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I am a physician, as well. Another point is the quality of the medical school in which one matriculates. In general, the better the medical school, as long as you continue faring well there, the more likely you are to get a slot in the specialty you want to pursue, and at a far better institution. I am not certain how UCSD compares to the top medical schools in the country, but my suspicion is that it is not in the top echelon; therfore, it may not open as many doors than if one attends a top 20 med school. </p>
<p>As perhaps 70-80% of students change their majors (and intended lifetime pursuit) during college, there is some wisdom in going to a college where one can thrive and get the best possible education…and perhaps in an environment where you might not want to settle, but at least be able to enjoy the bucolic setting for four years.</p>
<p>There also is projected to be a shortage of doctors so perhaps medical school won’t be as difficult to get into as it has been traditionally… I am of the camp that you go to the school that gives you the experience you want for the next four years of your life.</p>
<p>I am a physician as well and did 4 years at a LAC (Carleton) and then 4 years at a rather highly thought-of med school, Northwestern in Chicago. My advice to you is this (if there are not major financial issues pushing you one way or the other): go to Williams. Enjoy your 4 years of college at a top-flight LAC which emphasizes teaching. Enjoy learning subjects that you may never study again in depth (ie those topics outside of the ones required for med school admission). You will not be sorry! Being a more well-rounded intellectual person will truly make you a better physician and a more interesting person. Also, you may get into a more “prestigious” med school, which can be helpful if you are going into academic medicine.</p>
<p>It would be a big mistake to turn down Williams. It is a feeder school and there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL get into a top medical school coming out of there.</p>
<p>Depending on MCAT results. There is a bit of risk, but most of the physicians are saying it’s a risk worth taking.</p>
<p>Also, for various reasons, not every GPA goes as expected, which I can say from personal experience as a mom.</p>
<p>I wonder if the OP has left the room.</p>
<p>I’m a parent of a Williams graduate. My comments supplement the useful thoughts above. </p>
<pre><code> Personally, if I were you, I would consider Bayrunner’s comment in the context of all you value about Williams.
</code></pre>
<p>Based on your moniker, I assume you have close ties to San Diego. Apart from all the positives of Williams in your list, to which my Eph can concur, I’m guessing that you want to experience life outside of Southern California… an LAC in California, like Pomona, might not be as strong a pull for you, as Williams is.</p>
<p>Even with all the opportunities that Williams offers, it does not have the benefit of proximate access to a broad range of scientific research through a medical school. As Bayrunner indicated, medicine is a huge field, both in terms of specialty and professional activities. If you became a RA at a medical center, you could learn not only about medical research, but also learn about other aspects of the medical profession on a day-to-day basis.</p>
<p>If part of your interest in Williams is a change of scene, then you can try to get a summer internship via a program like an REU. You might even be able to experience Williams, if you’re a strong math student, through their SMALL program. If you were interested in Williams Oxford-Exeter program, you could apply directly to Oxford for a year of study abroad.</p>
<p>My last thought is about the Univ of California. As an alum, both undergraduate and grad school at Univ of Calif campuses, I know the system well. If your primary educational interest in Williams is to get a liberal arts education, you can get that at UC campuses, regardless of your major, even if it’s in a hard science. (In fact, decades ago my breadth requirement was nearly identical to Williams current one.) </p>
<p>However, if you want to go to Williams because of its pedagogy, which academically, I think is its strength, that’s much more difficult. I know UC students who completed independent studies, however these were very different from a Williams tutorial.</p>
<p>Good Luck on your journey. Let us know what you decide. If you plan (for now) to be a medical student at UCSD, best wishes for a 3.5 GPA. Enjoy the freedom to expand your education beyond medical school prerequisites without the pressure of applications to med school, unless you find another one that you prefer… Or, as others noted, you might find another path. Regardless, in four years wherever you are, I hope you are heading on a path that feels right for you.</p>
<p>UCSD is an excellent medical school and San Diego has a rich and wonderful medical community. I practice in Palo Alto and have a lot of colleagues who trained there.</p>
<p>So you’ve wanted to be a doctor all your life and you’re already into medical school coming out of high school? That is pretty impressive. You are already leaps and bounds ahead of your peers who are interested in a career in medicine. So spin your advantage forward. What do want to do next? How about cardiothoracic surgery? If you we’re interested in that you might consider the 6 year integrated CT residency at Stanford that accepts students (2 a year) right out of medical school. If that were your goal you could start planning for it now, because you are already into medical school…</p>
<p>Maybe cardiac surgery at Stanford is not your thing, my point is to start thinking about what kind of career in medicine you want to have and how this early acceptance into medical school can work to your advantage.</p>
<p>Williams is a great school, but you are now free of the Sophomore Organic Chemistry drama if you go to UCSD.</p>
<p>@itsallgood. Exactly!</p>