Hard Decisions! What do you think?

<p>I was really enjoying this tread, as my daughter is premed at Williams and I was learning a lot. But this nonsensical turn that is emerging is crazy. Williams, despite its flaws, is a truly remarkable place with faculty who care and who interact with their students. Arobot, Enough of this bashing please. You can hold grudges but it does make you look petty</p>

<p>Finddad:</p>

<p>If disclosing some things that I saw at Williams makes me look petty in your eyes, so be it. It does not hurt me. </p>

<p>Without disclosing details about myself, I tried to provide information so that readers can check quite a bit of what I wrote. I provided pointers so that people can Google reasons for why one leaves the pre-med track. I also provided references to specific sections of the Student Handbook, and pointers so that one can check the existence of regulations that schools are bound to follow.</p>

<p>I also said that Williams is very harsh with dispensing grades and students need to become GPA managers. Although not directly related to pre-med, this quote from a research paper further substantiates this latter statement:</p>

<p>

Source: <a href=“http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/cheri/upload/cheri_wp142.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/cheri/upload/cheri_wp142.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Notice that in all my previous posts, I did not passed judgement on other posters. To be honest, I did think that folks who were recommending a pre-med student to choose Williams over UCSD with guaranteed UCSD Med school admission were very biased and self-serving, but refrained from saying this (well, given the direct provocation, I am saying this now).</p>

<p>Also notice that other posters tried to distort my words. I did not rely on such tricks. Once again, I am trying to qualify as much as possible what I mean without disclosing information about myself. Granted, some things are hard to prove, such as the “in dubio pro faculty/administrator”, so I admit this is based on my experience and my observation of what happened with a few students. In fact, at Williams, there are a few situations in which “in dubio pro student” almost surely wins, but I do not wish to delve into those to avoid sidetracking this discussion even further (these situations are spelled out in the section Grievances of the Student Handbook).</p>

<p>I understand why some people may try to distort my words, or do as you did and attack me directly. It is never nice to read unflattering things about an institution that we care about. It does not mean, though, that those unflattering things are false or, as you put it, nonsensical.</p>

<p>I only read up to page # 3( headed out the door to work)I will say that DD14 has Williams high on her list but now, after reading @mythmom’s post(#31) about the Classics dept, I shudder. </p>

<p>What will happen to her as a first generation student who will major in the Classics? Maybe she should rethink her college list and consider a school with a classics dept that will be more supportive? It would break my heart if she were to fail. Thanks @ mythmom for your candor.</p>

<p>I would not make a college decision based on one person’s anecdote. If your daughter does that, she won’t find any school or department that no one has some gripe about. I’d suggest visiting Williams and arranging to meet some Classics majors and professors. Talk to several and try to get your own feel for the place. If costs are an issue for visiting, apply to the Windows on Williams program. They will pay all travel expenses for a three day visit. Acceptances are based on various criteria, with diversity being important, including economic and geographic diversity. Deadlines are probably coming up soon, and if you are accepted to WoW, you have a high probability of being accepted for admission. It will also be a great practice exercise for Common Ap essays. Try to meet the priority application deadline, which will show her commitment. Use that opportunity to get first-hand insight.</p>

<p>Pardon my philosophizing, but how do you want to live your life? It is basiclly a classic Practical v. Passionate situation.
The practical option would be to hedge your bet, avert some risk and go to UCSD and have a nice time. This comes with some surety, and lends itself to planning your life out a little more. Or you could go the passionate route, embrace the uncertain, and go to Williams, which sounds like a better fit, but leaves your life plan more vulnerable to the unpredictable machinations of life.</p>

<p>But seriously, since you have two very good options you should think about it, make your choices, and never look back</p>

<p>@ivy, point well taken, but I said " maybe" :)</p>

<p>@ ARobot, thank you for being convicted enough to stand your ground. Whilst I normally take most things that I read with a pinch of salt, your posting links to reports in the Recorder was most helpful. Thank you also to the others for sharing your personal experiences.</p>

<p>I am a mother myself, and I have 3 degrees, including a Masters, and a couple of professional qualifications; in other words, I know about being in university.</p>

<p>In my personal view, a first degree is an opportunity to learn, be independent, but more importantly, find yourself. Undergrads need to have fun. When I say they need to have fun, I mean sensibly, and not that they go mad partying all the time whilst not attending classes; not at all. </p>

<p>If they don’t have fun now, when will they? I know lots of people who didn’t ‘have fun’ when, in my view, they should have - mainly first 2 years in uni/college. They then tried to after they got married, in a way you only should when you are not committed to anyone. The result? Broken homes, hearts and dreams.</p>

<p>If students have to cry themselves to sleep because of the demands their course is making on them, and they are doing so regularly, and they are not the only one in this situation, something is terribly wrong. An undergrad course should be a positive experience.</p>

<p>As one of the parents said in a previous post, Williams is probably not the only LAC, or other institution where the deficiencies highlighted take place, and I agree with this to a large extent, and so my post is not Williams specific - as in I am not having a go at Williams.</p>

<p>Whilst this thread started with OP asking for advice, it has clearly morphed into one where some of the ‘cons’ of attending Williams have been highlighted. This is what makes CC unique and useful - being able to get the ‘low down’ on things that otherwise remain unsaid, and glossed over, especially if they are important to you.</p>

<p>Clearly, Williams is a fabulous LAC and no one in their right mind would deny this, but sometimes it is healthy to honestly admit to ones shortcomings too - in the end, these won’t matter to everyone, only to those to whom those ‘shortcomings’ (real or perceived) matters. </p>

<p>If highlighted ‘cons’ puts a few people off a college it is better for everyone all around. The college will not get someone likely to be miserable there, and thus more likely than not, under achieve. Conversely, if the matters highlighted will be motivating to some, it will enable them to know for certain that is where they need to be, and it results in a win:win situation.</p>

<p>Thanks to everyone who posts as it really helps when you are trying to get a feel for a college/uni.</p>

<p>Hummm, to get into UCSD’s Med Scholars program is possibly the hardest BS/MD to get into. Only students with a minimum of 2250 in SAT, 4.0 GPA are invited to apply after get accepted to UCSD regular cycle. Every year, there are 4000 qualified applicants for this invitation, and only 12 be able to participate in this program. And UCSD Med school is a lot better than Dartmoth, Brown med schools interm of ranking, research and opportunity. If you truly want to be a Doctor, UCSD Med Scholar program is a no brainer. Where else can you have the top tier undergrad and research opportunities in such a beautiful location with a perfect weather like SD ? Williams is a very fine institution, but if you don’t have at least 3.7 gpa , 36 MCAT, amazing EC and 2 yrs research experiences at Williams, you don’t get in UCSD Medical school later.</p>

<p>And don’t get me wrong, I am not a UCSD student, as the matter of fact, I am heading to one of the Claremont colleges this fall where I think it fit me better and give me a better chance to get in med schools later ( any med school is fine, even DO school). But deep down, Ucla , berkerley , or San Diego are fine universities , and I believe I might not even have a chance to be a competitive applicant to med school while I have to compete with thousands of premed Asian students who are hungry for success.</p>

<p>Brown’s PLME and Northwestern’s HPME are more selective, but yeah, UCSD Med Scholars program is superb.</p>

<p>@ marvin: Yes, but I would take UCSD Med Scholar over Brown and Northwestern in any day due to the facility,location and weather, and low cost if you are a california resident.</p>

<p>Fair enough!</p>

<p>Hello everyone!</p>

<p>I’m honestly so speechless with the amount of responses I’ve received.
I had to send in a decision by April 16 - just four days after I had posted the question - so after that deadline, I wasn’t checking up on these responses in fear of feeling as though I might have made the wrong decision. Haha so no, I am not a ■■■■■! In fact, in all honesty, I wasn’t expecting these responses.</p>

<p>Thank you so much for ALL of your input - from parents to even physicians.
I’m happy to say that I chose to go to Williams!
I know that I’ve lost the guaranteed spot into UCSD Med School, and I know I’m running a risk. But I’m going in knowing that it won’t be an easy road. From maintaining a strong GPA, to actively finding research and clinical opportunities, to getting a good score on the MCAT, to actually applying to med schools - I’m running many risks - especially with how competitive getting into medical school is nowadays.
But I’m confident that I’ll work very hard and will get somewhere as long as I keep my head up. And maybe I won’t get accepted into UCSDSOM and might somewhat regret giving up that opportunity. But I’d regret it even more if I didn’t go to Williams, learn a lot, and work my way into a med school.</p>

<p>Again, thank you so much for all of your input. I can’t express it enough!</p>

<p>@ARobot - Thank you so much for all of your input. I did hear that getting a good GPA at Williams will be tough. But I also heard that getting a 3.5 GPA at a UC is just as tough, if not harder. I know that Williams has its faults, but I also think that UC’s have their faults, too. Either way, students will have to work very hard. However, Williams IS a LAC, so it offers all of the benefits of an LAC that a UC wouldn’t. And by taking the Williams route, I’d like to say that I’m better preparing myself for medical school/applying to residencies. In fact, one of my interviewers for the Med Scholars Program (he was a Med Scholar and is currently attending UCSDSOM) told me that he felt a bit behind his peers because they were “more trained and more rigorous in that mentality.”</p>

<p>@finnsdad - This was very comforting to read! I wish all the best for her (=</p>

<p>I’m glad you came back to let us know. Congratulations on your decision!</p>

<p>@Rubbish - This is exactly how my friends’ parents have put it. Head vs. the heart. And both head and heart are right.
Haha, to put in a funny story (from my principal) amidst the very heated debate that arose: I love this woman. But not a lot of people really know her. But I think she is beautiful and gorgeous and sexy - so I want to marry her. But everyone else tells me I must marry Miss America. Everyone knows she is wealthy and drop-dead gorgeous and everything. But who am I going to marry?
I guess you can substitute UCSD Med Scholars/Williams for either woman haha.</p>

<p>If I chose UCSD, I wouldn’t necessarily sit back and relax. I would have tried to apply to more medical schools, too - which means I would still take the MCAT, try to maintain a strong GPA, and seek out many research/clinical opportunities. Guaranteed, at UCSD, I would have had that really nice “cushion.” But while Williams may have its faults (as this thread illustrated), I think Williams offers a more friendly environment in which professors do push you to learn. As someone mentioned to me before, it’s impossible to not learn at Williams, whereas at a UC, the story may be different (i.e. class sizes, some professors are more focused on research rather than teaching, etc.) I’m not discrediting the merits of the UC’s. The UC’s are very great schools with breakthrough research, and to some, the big, stimulating universities are definitely a much better fit than the LAC’s. I’m looking for a place where in the next four years, I can challenge myself and others (professors, other students, etc.) can challenge me. I’ve also lived in San Diego my whole life, so going out far east will be an eye-opening experience. And who knows? I might land up in San Diego again after Williams haha.</p>

<p>And one thing to clear things up: Some have referred to me as “he” but I very much am a “she” hahaha (=</p>

<p>Thanks for the update and congratulations on your decision. Williams is a great school. Although you do you realize you’re going to have to get used to watching Patriots games on Sundays…Ah, the sacrifices we make. But in all seriousness, do great at Williams and you will go far!</p>

<p>Sdchargersfan:</p>

<p>Congratulations on your decision. Williams do have many positives. Now that you chose Williams, do not look back and go for it!</p>

<p>Ps: It is going to be like Rivers to Alexander: Risky OL, risky knee, but if it works… TD Chargers!</p>

<p>Congrats, sdchargersfan, on a great decision. Make the most of it and don’t look back! (I’m a Californian & Williams alum)</p>