Hartwick College - Thoughts anyone?

Thanks Everyone. Colgate, Hamilton, Lafayette and Skidmore are great choices, but the price of $65,000 without merit aid is really high ):

Have you run the NPCs on Colgate, Hamilton, Lafayette, and Skidmore?

What about Chico State - as checking them out recently for someone interested in geology, and saw that they had quite a few geology concentrations. Your daughter would likely get into Honors College and even without merit at 33K it should be affordable for you.
RPI has hydrogeology, has merit aid, and offers preferential packaging to girls.

I’m thinking of Cornell. They have an Earth Systems major that sounds amazing. And it’s under $50K. Don’t know if she’ll get in, but it’s worth a shot.

@MYOS1634 I ran the NPC’s for Hamilton and Colgate - $0. Her #1 is UT Texas, We are OOS so getting in there will probably be harder. I’m trying to find 1 more school. I think Cornell would be a good choice/reach. She’s applied to 7 schools. I’m happy to be done with this part of applying to colleges.

Okay then…
http://catalog.csuchico.edu/viewer/14/GEOS.html
still better than Hartwick, especially with
http://catalog.csuchico.edu/viewer/14/GEOS/HYDRNONEUC.html
and
http://www.csuchico.edu/honors/

Adding Cornell as an extra reach is nice, but you wouldn’t get any merit there.
Applying to 7 universities when you’re hunting for merit and have an unusual major is a bit risky.

How familiar is your daughter with hydrogeology, or just geology in general? I ask because even at many schools known for their graduate programs in the field, hydrogeology is not stressed at the undergraduate level. If you’re going to look at schools with geology, IMO, you may want to consider schools which also have a hydrology or water science program. I know at my school, which actually has awesome field work opportunities for non civil engineering students interested in water resources, we classify hydrology with the geography department, something quite common among comprehensive universities.

What does your daughter like about UT Austin? There are a number of schools like it which are far less selective, offer merit aid, and have great undergraduate programs.

Remember that geology and at least at my school, hydro sciences, are usually not very popular majors. Classes are often fairly small and the field work opportunities inherent in the disciplines create a bond among students semi-reminiscent of the community at a LAC (I transferred from one to a large state u).

@MYOS1634 there not all universities, some are small LAC’s, where she would get merit. One is Hartwick, actually. As a safety. The difference with Colgate and Hamilton, Cornell is $15,000 less. My husband and myself did not want her to even go to a school that costs as much as UT Austin or Cornell, but we’ve come to terms with the fact that she may have to pay that. She can take loans, not optimal, but the state schools (Geneseo) are just not what she wants. $23,000 for her education would be amazing, just to pay that and not have loans would be terrific.

@whenhen She is fascinated with hydrogeology. Hydrogeology is not a major for many undergrad programs. She was frustrated with that for awhile. But, she knows as a grad student she could major in that. I think it’s better not to specialize as an undergrad anyway. We have looked at schools that have both geology and hydrology. The ones we’ve come up with are, besides Texas, SUNY Oneonta, University of Nevada and a few others I can’t think of right now.

As far as UT Austin what she likes about it? It’s in a city, not in the middle of nowhere like many small geology schools are. The campus was nice, vibrant. She thought the hills in that part of Texas were beautiful. When we were walking around the campus, she just felt right there. She could see herself there. Also UT Austin has subdivisions of geology like geophysics in case she’s interested in that. Can I ask what school you’re in?

I attend the University of Oklahoma. I’m actually surprised you found so few schools which offer both geology and hydrology. For instance, Montana State University has a few courses relevant to the field of study although no real geophysics program (I used to live in Bozeman which really is a great college town).

The University of Arizona, renown for its geology programs also has an outstanding hydrology department. Tucson, while nowhere near as lively as Austin, is still pretty solid. Your daughter might qualify for merit aid. University of Utah is another less selective school with merit, a lively city, and a great program. There are so many others.

Thanks @whenhen I just looked at University of Oklahoma on Google Maps. It looks like a really nice school. I don’t think U of Arizona is for her. Too much of a party school. Montana, I don’t know a lot about. The whole thing with Texas started when we visited in April because my husband was thinking of us moving there. And once D saw UT Austin she was in love. We weren’t even going there to look at the school, just the area.

Here are some other school suggestions:
-University of Minnesota (the land of 10,000 lakes got that way because of glacial processes). One of the cheaper large research universities.
-University of Wisconsin - Madison
-University of Missouri - Columbia

You may also want to double check that any LACs your daughter is looking at have GIS offerings. My hydrology professor effectively said that a student who’s good at math, particularly statistics, knows GIS and a bit of python programming, and understands fundamental water science concepts is golden in terms of employment.

@lostaccount,
At research universities, research is all that matters for faculty trying to get tenure. After getting tenure, there may be pressure to get grants in some departments, but many faculty have a lot of free reign on how to spend their time. As for the student-faculty ratio, be aware of both the numerator and denominator. Different schools count differently. In any case, at a RU, they could vary significantly by department. Speaking of which, in some fields, if you want the grad school experience as an undergrad, you’re better off at a RU.

Thanks @whenhen I’ll look at the schools you mentioned. Wisconsin is probably too cold for her. Thank you

??? Madison is no colder than upstate NYS.

While the low graduation rate is concerning, I don’t think we ought to be talking about this school like it’s barely a step up from a for-profit degree mill. The average composite ACT, according to the college search function on this site, is 25. A 25 is the 79% percentile. The top 25% of the student body are above 27 (87%ile). There are good students on this campus. Even the average student on this campus is probably a good student.

Worry about the grad rate? Absolutely. Something is going on there. But, worry about the school being populated by poor, unmotivated students? I don’t think so.

If I somehow got the wrong stats, I retract everything I just said! or if the ACT stats are somehow way different than the SAT stats, again, retraction.

Back in the day Hartwick had the reputation for taking a chance on kids who had potential, but some struggles in HS. For example, the kid with the high test scores and low GPA or vice versa, the kid with really bad grades in 9 & 10 and a marked improvement in 11 & 12, the kid with behavior issues but good grades, etc. If that is still true, then the low grad rate and low first year retention is not a surprise. There is a higher risk that the high potential but problem in HS performance will not make it to the second year, or will make it and transfer someplace else. It was a great place for my sibling who went from a HS struggle to an A student at Hartwick and a good career from there.

You are correct @PurpleTitan Madison Wisconsin is probably not colder than upstate NY, but she’s not crazy about going upstate. But, it’s good to have options.

Thanks @ordinarylives and @1012mom. What you’ve said sounds accurate about Hartwick. I had a good feeling when we were there, plenty of smart kids. Nice kids. Probably right for some people, but not everyone.

Obviously the fact that her interests are likely to mean she will major in a department that does not get many students will increase her value to schools.

Free time for tenured faculty? Not that i’ve seen. And certainly not in STEM, where it is critical to get external funding to keep labs going and where graduate training is the priority by a long shot. Maybe professors in areas like ancient French literature have time because they don’t have to stay current in anything, and grants are unlikely and there are no labs and probably few if any graduate students. But among those studying in STEM areas relevant to this century, time does not tend to loosen up. I’ve never seen a senior faculty member in STEM become more accessible to college students at large public universities. In fact it is the opposite. And sometimes if for no other reason than perceived self importance and disinterest in college students. This last part is likely to be far less common in private universities tho.

@lostaccount so you think at UT Austin the professors will be inaccessible to my D, even in the smaller geology classes?