<p>Amazing opportunity.
Shows why Harvard is the Best at everything!</p>
<p>Well, the most telling part is this:</p>
<p>"Nor does he notice a significant difference in student performance in those classes. </p>
<p>The quality of the students overlap substantially, says Neugeboren."</p>
<p>In other words (as the article notes), an openly-enrolled student body is able to perform within the Harvard curricula equally with those accepted (9.3%) into Harvard's day program. And students are graded on the same curve.</p>
<p>What's right with this picture?</p>
<p>Outside of the few true genius types out there the gap between average college prep students and the top often comes down to effort and interest rather than pure ability. I have heard that many elite schools take a few randon average students per year to see how they do. Most do fine.</p>
<p>As the parent of a former high schooler who took several Extension classes, I have some knowledge of what the Extension does best and not so well.</p>
<p>The range of students is far wider than that of most introductory college classes. For example, my S was in intro biology with college or college graduates the majority of whom were preparing for Med school. There was only one other high schooler in that class; in other words, the two 15-year olds were in class with people in their mid-twenties. This does not happen often in college. They took the course because their schedules conflicted with AP-Biology at their high schools. The textbook that was used was the same as in the high school AP-Biology.<br>
In Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra, however, the high schoolers susbtantially outnumbered the non-high schoolers (some of whom may have been in college, some of whom may have been sent by their companies). Many of these high schoolers no doubt applied to top colleges eventually. I know that most of my S's schoolmates who ended up at HYM (not many apply to P for some reason) took Extension classes.
My feeling is that it is not really possible to compare the student body of the Extension School and that of the College because the Extension School attracts such a huge range of students, some of whom are post-graduates, some of whom are even Ph.D.s. I know someone in her 40s with an advanced degree from MIT who's been taking classes in music, one composer or genre at a time.</p>
<p>There was no course in pure math for my S to take after he took MVCalc and LA. In Physics, there is only introductory Physics which is not even at the level of AP-Physics. The Extension School's offerings, in other words, are quite limited. Individually, the courses are fine and so are the profs. But is not easy to construct a rigorous set of courses that would fulfill all the requirements of college concentrations.
I think that is the greatest weakness of the Extension School. But it is true that it is much much cheaper than the College. For most high schoolers, it costs absolutely nothing.</p>
<p>I remember reading somewhere where a past Harvard president I believe stated that anyone with a 650 on the Verbal SAT should do just fine in the Harvard curriculum. Perhaps someone has the precise quote and source (which would save me a ton of time looking it up).</p>
<p>I think Marite, who has observed the issues directly, has it right. Yes, there are a bunch of Harvard extension courses that are just as academically challenging as some Harvard College courses, but Harvard College offers many courses, especially the math and pure science courses, that would CREAM someone like me who came out of high school with very high verbal scores but meager math preparation. There are a bunch of good reasons why many employers still insist on the Harvard College undergraduate degree in preference to degrees from other "good" schools.</p>
<br>
<p>should do just fine in the Harvard curriculum.</p>
<br>
<p>Sounds right to me, and even righter in the extension school, which for the most part mirrors freshman and sophomore courses, and which soft-pedals some tougher subjects (e.g., only the rough equivalent of the first year of Harvard College Japanese is offered, and the material is spread out over two years). After all, the admissions process is not designed to separate those who will be academically successful from those who would flunk out. Most kids who are doing fine academically at other colleges would do just fine at Harvard, too.</p>
<p>I don't think that Harvard turns down many applicants because they feel that the individuals aren't capable of doing Harvard coursework or even doing it extremely well. With eleven times as many applicants as spots in the entering class, they specifically select individuals who will bring an extra added value to the class in the way of unique talents or accomplishments. But they also select applicants who show strong internal intellectual motivation, so the rigor of the curriculum would vary according to the goals of the individual student.</p>
<p>I think most of you are missing the point.
Don't you think this is a great opportunity?</p>
<p>Of course, it is. Nobody says otherwise. Considering that we paid only a little over $1k for the 9 courses S took, I'd say it's a great oppotunity. We could even had paid less if S had put his application in earlier. But... it's limited. Which is why we are willing to pay $44k per year.</p>
<p>The first thing I notice about the article is how poorly written it is. </p>
<p>I found four grammatical errors, one spelling error, and one formatting error in my first reading. I'd probably find more if I went through it in detail. I presume that English is not Xianlin Li's first language, but you would think someone would proofread this before allowing it to be posted on Harvard's website.</p>
<p>On a positive note, the program it describes appears to be a good one.</p>
<p>It is the Harvard Crimson, a student paper, not "Harvard's website."</p>
<p>That makes me feel a bit better, though not much. One would still expect that a senior at Harvard working on the student newspaper (I presume at least some people on the paper's staff are seniors) would realize the need to proofread the articles they print or post.</p>
<p>Re: post #13, I notice that you didn't specify any of the errors you claim you found, nor did you specify your acquaintance with the editorial offices of a daily newspaper.</p>
<p>Will it make you feel even better if I point out that the writer is a freshman? And that, judging from her name, English may not be her native language?
As for proofreading for errors, tokenadult is correct in his hint about the workings of editorial offices; all the more so for the editorial offices of a newspaper which is a sideline for all involved, but which has deadlines to meet.</p>
<p>You mean you can't see them? Who thought that I would have to point out obvious grammatical errors to Harvard students or parents? Since you can't seem to find them yourself, here's a list:</p>
<p>Paragraph 2, last line reads</p>
<p>This growing population also faces new challenges, having to establish an non-traditional identity at a university where tradition reigns. </p>
<p>Obviously, it should read establish a non-traditional .</p>
<p>Paragraph 3 reads:</p>
<p>Currently, less than 10 percent of the roughly 150 students accepted into the ALB program each year are of traditional college age, defined as between 18 and 22 years old. While students have diverse reasons for enrolling in the ALB program, the rising cost of college tuition can be one of them.</p>
<p>Note the use of the word can at the end. Can should be used to mean is able to or is (physically) possible to be. May should be used when the meaning is could possibly be" or "be allowed to. The word may is more appropriate here.</p>
<p>Paragraph 14 reads:</p>
<p>There is a difference between deep and broad. The extension school has a very wide range of students...its less intense, when you get in a conversation its very chatty and informal, she says. In the College, theres less dillydallying. Its more, tell me your brilliant thought and Ill tell you mine, then I have another class or extracurricular to go to so off I go.</p>
<p>This paragraph has two different errors. The first one is that there should be a period or a semicolon after the word intense in the second line. The second one is that the word college shouldnt be capitalized.</p>
<p>Paragraph 21 reads:</p>
<p>The world is full of people interesting and different in many ways, and that is an interesting combination to teach, he says.</p>
<p>The term interesting and different is a modifier of people, thus the line should read The world is full of people who are interesting and different in many ways, .</p>
<p>Paragraph 24 reads: </p>
<p>Shortill is aware of the critics. Cutting straight to the heart of their insinuations she says, there is this fear that we are somehow pretenders. </p>
<p>Obviously, the word there should be capitalized since it is the start of a sentence that is being quoted.</p>
<p>Seventh paragraph from the end </p>
<p>Its more common, people already know what their goals are, says Shortill. There is less what do you want to be when you grow up?</p>
<p>Obviously, an error in the use of Its, the proper use when you mean to use the conjunction for it is is to type it as Its. See the following website for details: <a href="http://pages.prodigy.net/sol.magazine/grammar.htm%5B/url%5D">http://pages.prodigy.net/sol.magazine/grammar.htm</a></p>
<p>Fifth paragraph from the end reads:</p>
<p>We are open and candid with applicants that the student population is going to be considerably older than that of a traditional college, writes Ouchida. It is a unique individual who chooses to attend the extension sschool directly out of high schoolone who is self-directed, motivated, confident, and not interested in a vast social structure. Their focus is on learning.</p>
<p>Note that the spelling of the word school after the word "extension" is incorrect.</p>
<p>Third paragraph from the end reads:</p>
<p>In the end, both Nurse and Shortill say the education is what makes the </p>
<p>extension school worth it. Nurse isnt worried about how others will perceive her bachelor of liberal arts in extension studies from Harvard University when it comes time for her to apply to jobs or law school.</p>
<p>Obviously, this is a formatting problem.</p>
<p>Notice this is actually two more errors than I originally found in my first reading.</p>
<p>Let me say that I have no affiliation with a newspaper--but I've been producing business news releases (financial releases and the like) that are just as time-critical and have just as tight deadlines. In the newspaper business, as in all businesses, it is important to be concise, and use grammar correctly. I really don't understand why you are protecting someone's right to be sloppy--especially when representing a prestigious university like Harvard. </p>
<p>Lastly, marite, notice that in my first point I conceded that the writer's original language is probably not English. And whether this person is a freshman or not, I presume that the paper is being run by a student who is a senior. This was the point I made in my second post;--since seniors run the paper, they should know that all writers' submissions should be proofread. And the fact that the article is being submitted by a writer whose original language is not English should be all the more reason that someone on the editorial staff should be considering proofreading their submission.</p>
<p>Wow, what a pointless spelling/grammar flame. Does asserting a rather lame form of superiority over a Harvard student somehow make one feel bigger?</p>
<p>coureur,</p>
<p>Don't be a jerk. I made a simple comment that the article was poorly written--which it obviously is. I never attacked Harvard directly, and that was not my purpose in posting here. It was others on this site that asked that I back up my original critique with evidence--implying that no errors existed. </p>
<p>Apparently, it seems some Harvard people (notice I said some--and I'm sure they are in the very small minority) can't stand any criticism. Unfortunately, however, you seem to be one of them.</p>
<p>Okay, so what point did all your criticism make on a thread about the Harvard Extension?</p>
<p>Would you have bothered to bring this up if it had been any other school? I can certainly stand legitimate criticism of Harvard -- I've been known to do it myself. But grammar flames are lame no matter what school or person they are aimed at. They say more about the person making the attack than they do about the person who made the mistakes.</p>
<p>Coureur, I came to this site to get info about what type of programs and courses Harvard encourages undergraduates to take in order to best position themselves to get into their graduate programs. My son is about to start his undergraduate program and will be enrolling in the next month or so in his freshman classes. </p>
<p>Since my son is enrolling in a state university (Indiana Univ), the title of this thread: "Harvard: An Ivy Degree at a State School Price" seemed interesting. I thought perhaps it pertained to masters programs, or to allowing students at state universities to take one semester at Harvard as part of their regular program. (It is common for students at US colleges to attend high-prestige foreign colleges in this fashion--as I'm sure you are aware--and I've already visited Pitt, which had such a college inter-registration program with Carnegie Mellon). </p>
<p>Perhaps I shouldn't have made a comment on the grammatical lackings of the original posting. Perhaps I shouldn't have responded when someone questioned the lack of evidence in my original posting. Perhaps I shouldn't have responded when you posted about my "grammar flame". But I did--sorry.</p>
<p>I didn't post on this thread to argue--and I'm sick of this post already. I really wish I had never posted a word. But I also didn't expect to be attacked so, when all I did was point out what I though was a mild, but valid, criticism of the original article. You know, I've been on many other colleges websites--UCLA's, Indiana University's, UC Berkeley's, Yale's, Brown's, Duke's, Univ of Michigan, University of Pittsburgh, Bentley College's and this is the ONLY site where I've been attacked. Even more surprising is that I'm being attacked on the Parents forum. This is where I would least expect that.</p>
<p>And please don't say I have a problem with Harvard--on the contrary, when I was on the Yale threads on this website, you'll see that I actually questioned the validity of one of their threads that criticized Harvard since I thought it was all based upon third-party hearsay. And if I had a problem with Harvard, why would I wait seven months since joining this site to get over here to criticize the college?</p>
<p>Anyway, I apologize for the long-windedness of this post. I'm through with my comments on this thread--and I'm also sorry if anyone felt I was too tough on a freshman student. I hope the readers will realize that the criticism I made was obviously not directed at that student, but rather at the lack of proofreading--which is controlled entirely by others. Also, keep in mind that the student in question will most likely never see any of these comments.</p>