I thought that Harvard was a liberal arts college…
All students are accepted to Harvard College as Liberal Arts majors. However, during their sophomore year, students declare a concentration or major. Subsequently, some students remain as Liberal Arts majors, while others go into engineering, computer science, and STEM specific fields.
@gibby, re: school not being “hell” for PBK graduates: I am a PBK graduate of a LAC and due to the stress of constantly studying, worrying about grades, etc., I view undergrad as your daughter did: pure hell; my LAC was a complete nightmare for me.
That of course has to do with how I reacted to the school and the demands of performing well, not the school itself.
^^ Good point. However, did your LAC make their students memorize all the bones in the human body by week two in their pre med bio course? I’m willing to wager not. As I said, my wife’s undergrad school didn’t make her do it, nor have I heard it happening at any other college. What I’m suggesting is that some courses at Harvard seem to have higher expectations than other schools – just because it’s Harvard. And that adds to all the anxiety about demands and performing well.
Gosh, what a great choice you have. I live near Harvard and I don’t think it’s pretentious or snobby at all. I see a lot of very hard workers and also a lot of people who have very quick minds, resources, and great senses of humor and social awareness. The area of Cambridge is busy–as in, there are people around, everywhere, and it’s hard to find parking, and you’ll deal with snow, etc. For those reasons, I’d choose Pomona, which, although I’ve never been there, sounds much more relaxing in an atmospheric way–spread out, green, and comfortable. I’m sure the studies will be intense at either school. But outside of school, which state appeals to you more–MA or CA? Also, which will be easier on your family?
Wait I’m confused- you couldn’t have gotten into Pomona yet if you did Harvard SCEA. They don’t send likely letters. Are you just contemplating a decision if it comes to it? I wouldn’t worry about it now. Both schools are reaches and have similar accepted student profiles, so while you have a good shot to getting in Pomona, it’s not guaranteed.
I don’t think finances will be an issue for a student from a low income background- both Pomona and Harvard are the cheapest schools in the country for them (net price 2751/2880). Source: http://www.edcentral.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/UnderminingPellVolume2_SBurd_20140917.pdf Pomona’s also consistently rated in the top 10 among Princeton Review and Kiplinger for Best Values and Best Financial Aid…
Another thing that I think you may want to think about is the support network for low income students. Pomona has an incredibly tight-knit community of these students and the overall student culture is very supportive towards low income students. I can’t speak about Harvard’s community and I encourage you to do your research and find out.
@Gibby, that’s anecdotal. My son is taking organic chemistry in high school. His teacher has a PhD from a top-ten university who maintains that orgo is the pre-med graveyard because it relies too much on memorization. His point is that it’s easy to pile on the memorization. Harder to nurture analytical thinking. Not saying at all that Harvard cannot do that.
Since he is going to Williams ED, he will never know whether–given the option-- he would have chosen Harvard over where he is going.
Memorizing all of the bones of the human body in a week does not seem like genius level work??? It sounds junior high-ish to me… Maybe they expected most incoming would already know that, like, they should know all the capitals of all countries by now?
@Regurge01 I’m glad I’m not alone in this. Congratulations to you. I hope you make the right decision!! Thanks for the help and reassurance.
@endoftheworld Wow, thank you so much. what an interesting perspective and well thought out answer, the sources were all very interesting reads. This makes the decision much tougher. You are so lucky to attend such a wonderful institution.
thank you all for the great responses.
I hope that I will ultimately make a good decision, and I hope the financial aid at both schools is comparable. I’d hate for that to be the deciding factor.
My kids applied to college before Net Price Calculator’s were available, but even though every college was looking at the same data, no two colleges offered the same financial aid. In fact, the dollar difference between the least expense school (HYP) and the most expense (Brown, Boston College and Georgetown) was more than $30,000 per year. For many students, like my kids, the choice of a college comes down to financial aid. And that’s NOT a bad thing, as I’m a firm believer that you can be happy at practically any college. As Jeffrey Brenzel, Yale’s recently retired Dean of Admissions, has said
Just got an announcement that Harvard has suspended classes for a second straight day and the third day this year. In addition, frigid near zero overnight temperatures are expected starting Thursday. Times like this that Pomona seems awfully nice!
I live in New England and the snow this month has been outrageous! This is something to definitely keep in mind. Some of us really aren’t meant to live in this kind of climate (I’m originally from Honolulu!).
Weather aside, I have a d at Bowdoin College and my s just got accepted early to Harvard. I LOVE Bowdoin and I’m always going to be a bit sad that my s won’t be there. My d is extremely happy there–an amazing place with great values and incredibly kind people, and a top-flight education. It’s the perfect fit for my d. However, my s needed a more urban environment and a somewhat larger student body. He was torn between an LAC and Harvard, but in the end the urban campus won.
Please don’t let the prestige be the only factor. At this level of academics, it really doesn’t matter what the name is. Really. Particularly if you aren’t happy or aren’t doing well. I went to H for grad school–you can do that as well.
To the OP’s considerable credit, s/he never mentions prestige in the original post. S/he simply states that s/he comes from a “working class family” and is concerned whether Harvard will “open more doors.” However, if prestige is part of the consideration, this is from another thread:
Top LACs ideally attract discerning, but not prestige-seeking, students. Although discernment and prestige bear a relationship to each other, possessing the former seems substantive, while pursuing the latter seems superficial. And in no event would I pursue the latter at the expense of the former.
And keep in mind Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker’s greatest regret, as expressed when taking the Proust Questionnaire:
Q: What is your greatest regret?
A: Not going to Hamilton College. I never really felt comfortable at Harvard.
(Source: The Boston Globe)
We visited every Ivy but Cornell. I was impressed by Harvard but also concerned that the undergraduate experience might be secondary to the business school or medical school or other upper level programs. D applied to Harvard but if she gets into Amherst or Williams and Harvard we will have the same dilemma. I think the advice you seem to be getting is spot on. You will be just as successful long term if you chose to go to Pomona, maybe more so. You are going to college to learn so go where you think you can learn the most
If you love Pomona go to Pomona. The most importsntant thing is to be happy and get a good education. And I’m pretty sure Pomona is one of the top LAC’s. You can’t go wrong here.
@Wje9164be wrote:
Even if this perception is true, ought one not compare apples to apples? How do Harvard undergrads rate their experience relative to how others rate their undergrad experience? Hypothetically, let’s say the Med School spends +200% per student more than the national avg for Med schools. And let’s say Harvard College gets +150% spending for their students vs. the nat’l avg. In this hypothetical equation (which abides by your initial impression) you can’t say that being a Harvard undergrad is deficient, can you? Being an alum of Harvard’s rival, I’ve heard all the stereotypes – but I think credit should be given when credit is due. One needs to see what the actual consumers (undergrads) say. There aren’t legions of complaining Harvardians about how “poorly served” they feel by the College and that its run in a shoddy manner. Just peruse the student newspaper.
Conversely, this joke always gets good laughs:
What do Yale and Harvard students have in common? They both hate Harvard.
Point taken. Until late March when admissions decisions are released, we won’t worry. But part of the reason you visit colleges is to get a first hand impression. I do not recall ever reading about Harvard undergraduate students complaining about being second class citizens. If D is fortunate enough to get admitted, this would be a good “problem” to have
Maybe. To T26E4’s point and joke: each of my kids have read this article and agree that it’s a fairly accurate depiction of each school: http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/11/20/the-cult-of-yale-bfor-god/?page=single.
Just FYI that article was published in 2003. I wonder how it would read today. I also always wonder at what story you get depending on who you ask. I know quite a few miserable Yalies and as many happy Harvard kids. And then there are always those Stanford Ducks–you know, the ones who exude carefree happiness but who are paddling madly to keep up and worry that they are the only ones feeling that way.
@3girs3cats: My daughter just graduated from Harvard this past December as a mid-year 2014/2015 graduate, and my son is currently a senior at Yale and will graduate in May 2015. Both have read the article and agree that it’s a fairly accurate depiction of each school. Yes there are unhappy folks at both schools, just as there are plenty of happy ones at both schools. But one of the underling themes of that article is how Yale’s administration is pro-active in “nurturing the love” while Harvard’s administration is not. “Mother Harvard doesn’t coddle her young” is very true saying. Yale doesn’t coddle their students either, but I think Yale’s Administration acknowledges that because the school is located in New Haven, it’s their job to help create the fun on campus. Harvard’s administration strongly believes that it’s not their job to supply the fun, as student’s are on campus to work. It’s a different mind-set and it trickles down from the administration, to the faculty, to the students at both schools. I’ve said this in other threads, but I believe that Harvard would be a much better school if it were run by Yale’s administration!