Stanford vs. Pomona

<p>In my perfect universe, if admitted with reasonable financial aid, these would be my two top schools. Both have top ranked academics, similar california weather, are approximately 40 minutes from a large city, and have similar students. I could see myself at both places. I have visited both, I adored both campuses and the "feel" of both schools. Both are strong biology schools (my major). I'm planning on getting a PhD, and this is unlikely to change. The difference as I see it is between the LAC experience at Pomona, vs the brand name of Stanford. Have any of you had to make this decision, and if so, which school did you choose and why? For everyone else, which would you all choose? </p>

<p>*Please keep this conversation civil. Thanks :)</p>

<p>I would Stanford because it has more people, major options, and a bigger name.</p>

<p>Fortunately for you, you probably won’t have to make this decision.</p>

<p>They are both great schools. Why are you so confident you’ll even get into 1?</p>

<p>He’s not confident he’ll get into one. I think it’s a great hypothetical question to weigh the merits of two incredible schools. I would have to choose based on gut feeling after a visit… I like the idea of an LAC and a small community but the greater offerings of Stanford are tempting.</p>

<p>I’m not confident I’ll get in by any stretch. I understand completely that both are reaches. That’s why I prefaced it with “in my perfect universe”. I have solid stats and ECs (check <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1518278-updated-chances-ivies-second-ivies-publics-will-chance-back-3.html#post16100312[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1518278-updated-chances-ivies-second-ivies-publics-will-chance-back-3.html#post16100312&lt;/a&gt; if you really want detail) so I have a shot at getting in, but I understand both schools are huge reaches and don’t expect admission from either. This is a hypothetical to compare two schools, one huge research institution with a big name, and one lesser known LAC with an emphasis on undergrad. Stanford and Pomona are particularly good examples, because many of the other factors that influence college decisions are similar (location, ect.) that the comparison becomes more about the education provided at these institutions. Tiny correction silogram, *she.</p>

<p>Worry about it when you get the choices. In the mean time, work on those apps and essays :)</p>

<p>Until you are accepted and can afford both schools it is a moot point.</p>

<p>They are both fantastic schools and the choice between the two schools would really come down to personal preference between attending a research university and a LAC. Two reasonable people can have two different opinions on which type of school suits him/her best. You can get a great education at either school.</p>

<p>Don’t know about Stanford, but some PhD programs prefer not to take BAs from their institution, and it’s good for the student to get their higher degree somewhere else as well. </p>

<p>As long as you’re in a perfect universe, why not Pomona for the BA and Stanford for the PhD.</p>

<p>This is less specifically for me and more of a general discussion of the merits of both institutions in relation.</p>

<p>Oops, sorry neuromajor… should’ve written OP. </p>

<p>And @qialah… now that’s a good idea!</p>

<p>Previous General Discussions on the Topic:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1315729-pomona-stanford.html?highlight=pomona+stanford[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1315729-pomona-stanford.html?highlight=pomona+stanford&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1287712-ivy-league-vs-liberal-arts.html?highlight=lac+vs+university[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1287712-ivy-league-vs-liberal-arts.html?highlight=lac+vs+university&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/548975-prestige-lac-vs-ivy.html?highlight=lac+vs+university[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/548975-prestige-lac-vs-ivy.html?highlight=lac+vs+university&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1351636-drunk-lac-kool-aid.html?highlight=lac+vs+university[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1351636-drunk-lac-kool-aid.html?highlight=lac+vs+university&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/728250-liberal-arts-colleges-perceived-second-tier.html?highlight=lac+vs+university[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/728250-liberal-arts-colleges-perceived-second-tier.html?highlight=lac+vs+university&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I personally turned down Stanford for Pomona, and just finished my first year there. I have no regrets with the decision I chose. You should know that this is not a rare case- plenty of people turn down the top universities for the top liberal art colleges, for various reasons.</p>

<p>My personal reasons were because Pomona just felt so much more caring and accessible than Stanford. No TA’s, no graduates, and consistent small classes. The vibe I got from the students was less elitist, more open-minded, more adventurous, more friendly, and more tight-knit, and the welcome that I got from the admissions office was unparalleled. People at Pomona really, really, really care for you and want to see that you succeed at everything you do. Stanford had a similar student body (laid-back, distinguished, happy), but the students were surprisingly individual and cold.</p>

<p>Whenever someone tells me that Stanford would have offered me so much more opportunities (and look, the 2nd post already does so!), I tell them to look at it with a different perspective. Just about any college in the country has more opportunities that it offers than is possible to take advantage of. Pomona, with the country’s 4th largest endowment per student, is definitely not in shortage of opportunities. You’ll be really close to no more than 5-10 professors, you won’t be taking more than 40 classes if you graduate in four years, your friend groups will be the same size at either school, and with rare exceptions, in most universities you’ll be studying in labs that are very similar to those seen in the liberal art colleges.</p>

<p>The undergraduate level is the time to transition from learning to laying out your individual road. It is important to learn in a way that caters to your individual strengths and weaknesses. It is important to build lasting friendships with your professors and the student body, and at a liberal arts college, you’ll never be just a head among a sea of heads, a number among the thousands. This is not needed for every student- there is a special type of student who has already distinguished themselves at the research level and has a much stronger grasp for their particular subject than everyone else. These genius types would better fit at a university like Stanford, which has the graduate resources to quench their thirst, however, very few of these people are out there. For just about everyone else, I would argue a liberal arts college offer a better undergraduate education. </p>

<p>Pomona in particular is one of the most well-resourced schools in the country, and definitely the most of any of the liberal art colleges. With 2200 classes offered through the Claremont Consortium (including engineering at Mudd), over 6000 students no more than a mile walk away, open events at all 7 schools, 275 and growing clubs and organizations, full access to 7 dining halls, and a 2 million volume library (expanded to 9 million unique books through LINK+, the interlibrary loan catalogue), I would dare anyone to tell me that these resources are not enough. I’ve felt constantly overwhelmed by all that there is to do here, and Stanford having more students, more classes, more clubs, and a bigger library would not have changed my personal experience.</p>

<p>It’s obvious that Stanford would be doing significantly more cutting-edge research. But how many of these opportunities are actually open to undergraduate students? How many are actually taught by the leading names in the country? At Stanford, the competition to get research is greater, and many first years don’t get to do it. You’ll begin most likely with a mentor or graduate student instead of a faculty member. At Pomona, there is no competition, and all the professors are required to do research to maintain their positions. There are no graduate students, meaning that you’ll be lead with the professor. As a top liberal arts college, Pomona has a very distinguished faculty, so you’ll be working with some of the best. More importantly, you’ll be given individual guidance, glowing personal recommendations, and lasting connections. You won’t be penalized for not having ever learned how to research- that is why you’re at Pomona, to prepare for graduate-level work. Because of its size, Pomona won’t come close to spending anywhere as much as Stanford does in research capita. But it has a very active summer research program (SURP) which sponsors 200/1500 students every summer, research assistantships, the Pomona College Internship Program, and Independent Summer Research Grants. It has the HAP Pre-College Research program for underrepresented incoming freshmen to let students experience research from an early stage and decide if it’s right for them.</p>

<p>With all of these factors, the only other two big differences that separated the two schools were athletics and prestige. Stanford has a much better athletic program, but the athletes there are more cliquey and separated from the main student body. Pomona’s athletics are not the defining feature of the school, but they are substantial and accessible, which actually attracted me more. Prestige wise- yes, Stanford is much more well known nationally and internationally, while Pomona (and other top LACs) remain quite unknown to national attention. But to employers who matter, the top graduate schools, and competitive graduate fellowships, top LACs do as just well as top universities in placement, if not better. Pomona students won more Goldwater Science Scholarships in 2013 than any school per capita. More science PhDs are produced at Pomona than Stanford. Students who work hard at either school (or really, any school) will be rewarded. Where the name brand really matters is for graduate school. </p>

<p>It was tough to turn away from the more popular road, but a year later I can say it has been one of the best decisions of my life. </p>

<p>(*Stanford has SLE, their version of a liberal arts college, but it is humanities focused, 1 year long, and more rigid in terms of course options and options. I did consider it, but I ultimately felt it was nowhere near the level of a top liberal arts college like Pomona or Swarthmore)</p>

1 Like

<p>Thank you debakianmj for your insightful comment. I know I’m going down a PhD route, so accessibility to research is important to me. I’m in a lab currently, and I would hate to have to wait another 4 years until graduate school to be in one again. Knowing I’ll be getting more than one degree, I’ve turned my attention considerably to LACs, it seems the quality of undergraduate education is unparalleled at the top LACs. Perhaps I’ll get my PhD at one of the big name institutions (or somewhere like UCSD, which is known for the particular program I want to join), but an LAC looks incredibly appealing for undergrad, especially as a pure science (biology) major. Again, thank you for the insight.</p>

<p>Top LACs provide an excellent environment for learning. No doubt.
But for major such as biology or chemistry, large research institutions like Berkeley Stanford would provide more labs more opportunities to work with world famous professors. Just saying</p>

<p>The choice between a LAC and a university is largely personal preference – you need to figure out which type of school feels right to you. My older child visited a LAC and right away felt it was just too small for and chose to attend a university where he absolutely thrived. My younger child has always loved being part of small close-knit environment and immediately fell in love with the idea of attending a LAC with its strong sense of a community, close interaction with professors, knowing a lot of people on campus etc. – she is having a tremendous experience as well. There is no right or wrong answer – just personal preference.</p>

<p>There are many factors to consider – some people want big time college sports, others don’t care, some people prefer small classes other like to mix in larger lecture style classes. Think about what is important to you. </p>

<p>The other thing to consider is if one school is better for your course of study. There are pros and cons to both. Stanford might have more labs but at Pomona you won’t have to compete with grad students to do lab work with professors – this is something you will have to research yourself and determine if one school is a better fit for your academic interests/goals.</p>

<p>The truth is that if you do well at either Pomona or Stanford you will be set up to get anywhere you want so if you are lucky enough to end up with that choice, go where you feel you will be happiest and most successful for the next four years.</p>

<p>This is my same dilemma! Of course my stats aren’t even close to yours, but Pomona and Stanford are my top two for sure. Has your opinion changed anyway in these few months?</p>

<p>What a great post, Debakian!</p>

<p>The obvious may be indeed true, just sometimes we don’t have enough info/knowledge to justify it.</p>

<p>In the stock markets, we should not try to figure out whether they are up/down ourselves, we should try hard to figure out who know and follow.</p>

<p>And it may be true about other things too.</p>

<p>@hambird, I wish it’s gotten easier! I’m leaning Stanford a tiny bit, but it’s just so difficult</p>