Harvard Law Grad Tells Me College Doesn't Matter

Pre-College Issues High School Life
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<p>Maybe those weren't his exact words but he said something along the lines of "The college you go to hardly matters. As long as you have a degree and your life skills, you can make it to the top."</p>

<p>He's been going to my church for a while, but I only met him recently. He went to Rutgers for business and then made it to Harvard Law. He works in corporate litigation for a firm in NYC, and is absolutely loaded. 2 basketball courts in his house, indoor and outdoor swimming pools, a 12 car garage, etc. </p>

<p>Apparently, he feels that a degree from a respectable college only gives you the slightest edge when competing for a job, and can easily be substituted with a degree from a state university and brilliant interviewing skills.</p>

<p>He's been in executive positions and told me he specifically chose a SUNY grad over a Duke grad for an internship position, just because he "trusted the other guy more" </p>

<p>When it comes to law, he said as long as you have a degree from a credited university, passed the bar, and can do the work, no employer will care what name is printed on your diploma. You can either do the job well or you can't, no top 10 degree will change that.</p>

<p>So I asked him how come there are so many successful Harvard and other top college grads (such as himself). He said that "people who were accepted to these excellent law schools, already had great life skills, and were bound to succeed no matter what. But the problem is, you never hear about the successful ones who went to their state school...they're out there, and they're doing just as well as their top college counterparts."</p>

<p>This was basically like an interview between him and me. I asked him some questions and then just jotted down his answers. But wow, he completely changed my perspective about college and the job market in general. I can't say if what he told me applies for other fields, where research is, perhaps, more important, and the quality of the institution might matter, but I would have to think the situation is pretty similar.</p>

<p>Thoughts?</p>

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<p>In essence it doesn’t. For example, you can still look at many colleges and see a list of “notable graduates”, and they’ll be more accomplished than most ivy-league grads will ever be.</p>

<p>That being said, a person isn’t going to get into Harvard law or something else without being very motivated, so its clear that is just going to apply to get into the real world.</p>

<p>However one thing amongst the successful is always true: They step up to the challenges they have, and that’ll probably fit into any case, whether they went to Unreputable U or an ivy-league school.</p>

<p>Thomas Edison would tell you that the state-school students just need to perspire more.</p>

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<p>I would imagine that the only place that it makes a real difference is in business or law. This is due to the networking and the fact that Ivy graduates tend to hire their fellow alums.</p>

<p>In the hard sciences, there are actually some bigger names at the more prestigious state-schools because the research funding from both state and federal governments is often greater than only the most prestigious privates (i.e. HYPMS). Humanities and social sciences can be taught anywhere.</p>

<p>The meritocracy ends as soon as you get out of school, though. I mean, there are billionaires who never even went to college (Richard Branson) and plenty that dropped out (Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg). Even though the latter two made it to Harvard, I doubt they would be any less rich had they not. </p>

<p>I’ve said it a million times. The reason you pay big money to get to an HYMPS or comparable school is FOR THE NETWORKING! There aren’t any secrets in terms of their teaching methods. You could learn the same thing at any school. It’s all about the people you meet. If you can’t network, don’t pay an extra 30,000 bucks per year.</p>

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<p>And the ivy leagues have hotter women overall.</p>

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<p>Noooooooooooooo Wall Street only hires Ivy Grads</p>

<p>[The</a> Ivy League/Wall Street Connection | Doctor Cleveland’s Blog](<a href=“Category: Cafe - TPM – Talking Points Memo”>Category: Cafe - TPM – Talking Points Memo)</p>

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<p>"He said that "people who were accepted to these excellent law schools, already had great life skills, and were bound to succeed no matter what. But the problem is, you never hear about the successful ones who went to their state school…they’re out there, and they’re doing just as well as their top college counterparts.’ "</p>

<p>Exactly. People, considering what they do with their lives, are bound to succeed, no matter what college they go to.</p>

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<p>What a degree from an Ivy League or other top school does is give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re an intelligent and talented worker. A degree in a reputable major from a prestigious university will almost always get you an interview. So as a Chicago graduate, when I applied for a financial analyst position at Bloomberg in Tokyo, I got a personal e-mail the next day informing me that they wanted to conduct an interview with me. </p>

<p>However, outside of a few stuck-up firms that only hire graduates from the most prestigious schools (e.g., Goldman Sachs and a few other “prestigious” firms that pay well but don’t necessarily require great work skills or great intelligence), the interview stage is where your privileges as a graduate from a top university end. Everything else is personality and knowledge.</p>

<p>So the OP is correct, but only to an extent. The college from which you received your degree is important, but only in its capacity in getting you an interview. The college on your degree is mostly irrelevant to everything thereafter.</p>

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<p>^ You work in Japan?? That’s been my dream since I was little! I’m jealous. What was your major?</p>

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<p>I double majored in mathematics and East Asian studies. I actually bypassed the Tokyo Bloomberg job for a CIR position in the city of Nagoya, which is the industrial capital of Japan (home to the headquarters of Toyota, Mitsubishi, Honda, and many robotics/aerospace manufacturing companies). My job mainly involves serving as a communication medium between Nagoya and its sister cities, Los Angeles and Sydney, Australia - mainly in economic matters. A large part of the job involves interpreting, translating, and receiving foreign diplomats. Certainly a pretty good job, with great pay and a lot of free time to work on starting up my own business (the latter of which probably wouldn’t have been possible at Bloomberg).</p>

<p>Anyway, I should actually put an asterisk by my previous remarks. The model I created generally works for the U.S. (and from what I’ve heard, most of Europe), but it does not work in Asia. Asia is a very prestige-driven geo-political entity. In many cases, an applicant from a more prestigious college will be chosen over another applicant with a less prestigious background, regardless of qualifications. (I think this is unfortunate, but that’s the present reality). In that regard, I’m quite fortunate to have attended Chicago which, despite being seen as only a top-10 U.S. university within the U.S. job market (higher in finance/economics, of course), is perceived as a top-5 U.S. university within Japan and most of Asia.</p>

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<p>I’m actually going to a UChicago Information Session next week! Thanks for
the insight, and Math/East Asian Studies is my intended major!</p>

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<p>That’s great! Mathematics and East Asian Studies is a very potent (and relatively uncommon) combination that’ll take you quite far in the present job market. The two majors, together and individually, also provided for an enjoyable and well-rounded college experience.</p>

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<p>It matters little, in the perspective of life. You can make it matter little in the perspective of employment, too, if you’re dedicated.</p>

<p>

1.) That’s not true for all firms.</p>

<p>2.) Wall Street is hardly representative of the real world.</p>

<p>3.) The truly exceptional people on Wall Street start their own firms.</p>

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<p>How old was he? I thought lawyers were poor these days…</p>

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<p>He’s right and wrong. I had an internship last year from a guy who graduated with a 2.5 GPA with a music major and he is now at the top of the company over the overacheivers who went to a top school. He told me to do what I want in college and life will take you where you need to go. But for some careers like investment banking top school grads almost have a monopoly on who they hire. And they are mostly top school grads also. In law, there way too many lawyers. And most law school grads who went to a top 14 will get a job at a law firm much more faster than a kids who went to an unknown or lower ranks law school.</p>

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<p>You can always, you know, take what you learn from a degree and apply it to the real world…</p>

<p>BOOM! Entrepreneur… and no prestige needed.</p>

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<p>Being brilliant at interviews only helps if you make it that far in the application process.</p>

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<p>@Saugus </p>

<p>He’s in his late 30s, graduated from Harvard when he was about 26 I think. The job market for lawyers right now is bad, but there are still people making money. (primarily those who got their jobs before the economy took a turn for the worse)</p>

<p>And also, I definitely agree that a degree from a good school will help land you the interview. If a company has 3 interview spots left, they will probably give it to applicants with the most prestigious schools on their resume. But after that point, the advantage kind of wears away</p>

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<p>He’s right…for certain majors. In law and business, your social skills are more important than your alma mater. I’d say for stuff like med school or research, undergrad is more important.</p>

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<p>^ You have it mixed up. For Law and Medical, UG doesn’t matter. But for Business and Research, it does.</p>

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<p>It matters if your UG school is affiliated with a medical school. In such cases they give preference to their own undergraduates.</p>