<p>"I would hazard the guess that performance on the AMC tests may be one, but perhaps not the only, criterion by which top math students are identified."</p>
<p>It seems that the number of people who qualify for MOSP and USAMO are expanding lately, but it used to be that if you qualified for MOSP (top 50 in the country) then you were an automatic admit at Harvard. I've seen plenty of people who made USAMO (used to be top 150) who were rejected. Note that the MOSP/USAMO qualifiers tend to be like half juniors and half seniors, so it's more like you need to be in the top 30 seniors in the country to guarantee admission.</p>
<p>The SAT Math I and IIC, AP Calc are incredibly easy to get a perfect score on. If you get an 800 on the SAT Math I, the curve on the IIC almost guarentees you'll get another one on the IIC test, and AP Calc BC is incredibly easy to get a 5 on. So a place like Harvard wouldn't use this to identify the math people they were targeting. MOSP is the only thing they care about. Slightly less prestigious math competitions like ARML and Mandelbrot will help, but I knew guys who were on national championship teams that were shut out of HYP and Stanford.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Wisteria,
This is an elite institution that can run itself almost any way it wants, including using a disingenuous-sounding admissions policy. It's been doing this -- rather successfully -- for over 350 years. It's Harvard. It's not state U. Get over it. (And I mean that nicely.)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm aware it's been quite successful doing this. I attended it myself, as have several family members.</p>
<p>As a citizen who cares about public policy, however, I hoped that Harvard was sincere when they tried to take some moral high ground by ending early admissions, leading the way so that others might follow, making their only stated exception for athletes under the "unreasonable pressure" of exploding offers.</p>
<p>And I still hold out some hope that they were indeed sincere. These vague and mysterious "letters of intent" the Crimson refers to might not be the same as the old likely letters--they could just be personal letters from professors encouraging students to apply, without making any specific promises. If the professors are not on the admissions committee and do not have authority to speak for it, their letters would not be likely letters, just letters of encouragement to apply, describing the specific opportunities that would appeal to such students (e.g., the legendary math 55 and the graduate math courses available to undergraduate math majors, the possibility of applying for a joint program with the New England conservatory, etc.) I think that sort of thing is a perfectly reasonable way for a school to go about encouraging applications and matriculation from students who would make the most of such resources.</p>
<p>It's certainly my hope that that is what Harvard is doing now, rather than violating the spirit of the initiative they are trying to lead.</p>
<p>But I don't know if that true, which is why I ended the title of this thread with a question mark.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to see whether these intent or likely letters (if in fact they are being used) are being sent to the approximate number and type of students who typically were accepted in the SCEA rounds of past years.</p>
<p>In the past, Harvard used to admit 800-900 applicants SCEA. I doubt Harvard would send so many likely letters. In the past, Fitzsimmons has claimed that the number of students who are admitted on academics alone number about 300; I do not believe, however, that Harvard used to send 300 likely letters. </p>
<p>I can see different types of letters. One would be by a prof who knows a student, encouraging the student to apply. Such a letter would carry little weight with the admissions committee. If the prof were on the admissions committee,--and there are some every year--, that prof would be one of 35 or so committee members. The prof's views would carry weight but might not be decisive. </p>
<p>A second type might be by the admissions staff--perhaps the Dean or Director--, to some targeted students, encouraging them to apply. This would be similar to the type of letters sent out for HFAI to students in certain zip codes, not guaranteeing admission.</p>
<p>A third type of letter would be a likely letter, which practically guarantees admission. I suspect that the letters of intent mentioned by the Crimson probably fall in that category. I also suspect that the number of non-athlete recipients is tiny. </p>
<p>We will have to see whether Harvard is able to stand on its principles or is concerned about losing some of its most desirable recruits to places such as MIT or Caltech, Yale or Chicago, which have retained EA. Harvard may be concerned that students will not bother to apply if they are already admitted elsewhere early. It is a valid concern, but I wish that Harvard would at least put it to the test for a few years before compromising on its principles.</p>
<p>I can understand that Harvard may be a bit nervous about the prospect that losing the strong math students might snowball in a way that might make it hard to recover. </p>
<p>It seems that the competition is sharpening its knives. MIT's Professor Kedlaya (who was a Harvard undergrad, by the way) said the following in an on-line MIT recruiting "math jam" Tuesday night:</p>
<p>
[quote]
we have a strangehold on the Putnam competition; last year, about 1/3 of the top 75 participants were from MIT.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I found that "stranglehold" imagery rather graphic. It almost sounds like MIT is sharpening its knives for the kill.</p>
<p>However, leaving that remark aside, it strikes me that MIT's approach to encouraging strong math students to apply is a very positive one--having an enthusiastic math professor participate in an on-line "math jam," a free-form interactive two hour on-line math discussion of MIT's math opportunities and admission criteria, open to all interested math students in the country, indeed all students around the world, as long as they have Internet access. </p>
<p>The transcript of the entire on-line math jam with Prof. Kedlaya and admissions officer Matt McCann is here:</p>
<p>The wording in the Crimson editorial was vague and mysterious--but it could well be that the Harvard letters to mathematicians and musicians are indeed just encouragements to apply that describe the math and music resources in some detail, similar to what Prof. Kedlaya did in his math jam. To extend that idea, I'm sure AoPS would be happy to invite a Harvard professor and admissions officer to conduct a math jam on opportunities at Harvard (as well as similar ones for other colleges. So far, I believe only Harvey Mudd and MIT have participated.)</p>
<p>All that seems entirely appropriate and aboveboard to me.</p>
<p>Ok - just got to ask this. Why would Harvard (or any elite institution) care so much about recruiting math prodigies? My impression -- and I admit this is not an area I follow closely -- is that this type of student is generally not destined for highly impactful contributions to society. With the increasing overlap across disciplines, I would think that Harvard and its brethren would be far more interested in highly accomplished applicants who can straddle disciplines, communicate (spoken and written) at a very high level, make connections across fields of inquiry. If music, math and sports are the tickets to Harvard, then again I find myself seriously questioning whether its a club I want my kids to join.</p>
<p>You need to get to know more math-liking students. </p>
<p>After edit: A high school student who is an avid reader would surely enjoy Ian Stewart's popular books about mathematics. (Check your local library catalogs for which of his books are available.) Stewart is quite eloquent on the impact of mathematics in the current world.</p>
<p>The founders of Google applied mathematics to a pesky problem that I experience every day in real life: trying to find relevant webpages by online searching. Their better understanding of mathematics, as compared to other search engine developers, has saved countless person-hours of frustration from bad search results.</p>
<p>Well, I knew I'd be in trouble for my question on here. The math parents are just as ferocious as the sports parents! Next I'll have to go take a poke at the music parents, I guess! Maybe we all need to get a grip? After all, we're just noodling over the implications of an off-hand remark at the bottom of a college newspaper article. I admit it mady my own heart pound. My senior never won a math contest! She won't get a Harvard likely letter! Life is unquestionably over.</p>
<p>I don't know if he ever received a likely letter, but one can look up Noam Elkies, youngest tenured prof at Harvard, teacher of fabled Math 55 and a serious composer.</p>
<p>Mammall:</p>
<p>Your question had nothing to do with likely letters and everything with impugning the articulateness of mathematicians and the importance of math in life, past, present and future. And I say that as someone who is not in the least gifted in math. Just because I am not good at something does not mean I think it is unimportant.<br>
BTW, my S did not receive a likely letter. He did get into Harvard.</p>
<p>EDIT: From Prof. Greg Mankiw's blog. Why do Aspiring Economists Need Math?</p>
<p>I'm not a mathematician, but I spend time with one when he's in town. (jk -- my husband travels alot.) The assumption that math people can't communicate is false. Most math people I know communicate very carefully -- no unstated assumptions, great logic and well-structured arguments. (A fact which has improved my debate skills over the years!) A mathematician HAS to be able to communicate well, or else his/her work is for naught.</p>
<p>As for contributions, what about John Nash and game theory?</p>
<p>I recently met a philosophy professor with a big deal math PhD. Cross-discipline applications are commonplace now, and mathematicians are much in demand.</p>
<p>I'm not sure at what level we call a student a "prodigy". I know a number of students who have taken Calc BC as hs freshmen and sophomores; they are very active in science and engineering activities, and are as likely to major in those fields as mathematics. I've come across a few others who take post-calc math at the university before high school; they are less likely to be involved in extra-math activities as youngsters, but I certainly don't assume they will spend their adult lives in an intellectual closet.</p>
<p>Not sure why you feel the need to "take a poke" at any parents, or students for that matter. Is it because their children have interests and talents that are different from yours? My children enjoy being around others who have talents that are varied. It makes life interesting and exciting. </p>
<p>When I think about Harvard math geniuses with a bent for music, I think of Tom Lehrer. </p>
<p>I also think there may be a misunderstanding about "likely letters." Certainly they're not essential to being admitted to Harvard. And if Marite's son did not get a likely letter when he applied, that shows just how rare those letters must be. I don't begrudge Harvard one bit for trying to court students they think might go elsewhere, as in math students who might choose to go to CalTech or MIT or music students to Julliard or other top conservatories.</p>
<p>do the "likely" letters then come out in the fall of senior year and before the jan. deadline for regular admission? are they sent only to students who have already submitted an application or to students who also have not yet applied?</p>