<p>
</p>
<p>To which school?</p>
<p>pea: one minor correction - that example meant to say a friend from high school…not college. </p>
<p>and he went to Yale.</p>
<p>Meeting financial need with grants instead of loans is standard operating procedure in the Ivy league now. Yes, there is often a small work-study component but that seems more to ensure that the student has some skin in the game. </p>
<p>These tales of athletes receiving fantastic financial packages from Ivy league schools that bear no relation to their financial need always seem to begin with, “I know a guy…”</p>
<p>LOL varska, that’s for sure.</p>
<p>true anecdotal evidence is generally all that is available in these types of situations. That said from a school’s point of view it makes sense that they do this. There is an athlete that they want, that athlete has full ride athletic scholarship offers from schools that allow them…yes they can say oh our school is better academically to the athelete but at the end of the day if they want someone badly enough they’ll make a FA package offer work - even in cases where the athlete may not need it. </p>
<p>I find it funny coming back on this site after 8 years, when I was applying to schools, and realizing how naive people on this site are (and how naive I was back them). Look at the end of the day these schools can do whatever the heck they want. If that means giving someone FA that doesnt need it is their call…nothing can prevent them from doing it.</p>
<p>Actually, it says in the Princeton guidebook that grants are scholarships. It appears the only difference is in the letters.</p>
<p>@whartongrad08 – Your story is possible. It might be true, it might.</p>
<p>One reason that I’m skeptical is because the family you describe is extremely wealthy. Four homes, a private jet, and a mega-yacht isn’t just out of the range of being eligible for financial aid, it is wealth that very few families will ever know.</p>
<p>These kinds of families are usually very philanthropic. Once someone has so much more money than they need they find great meaning in giving to people in need. I find it hard to believe a family like this would accept financial aid from a school even if the offer was unsolicited, if for no other reason than their extreme embarrassment to be not paying for their own son’s education given what they can afford.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Actually, many of us had had first person dealings with Ivy athletics and financial aid. I’ve yet to hear anyone saying they personally received grants that weren’t need based. (hey it’s a confidential forum) It’s always, ‘a guy from my school.’</p>
<p>Anyway, think about the implications of this. Every Ivy school makes a big deal that all grants are strictly need-based. No merit, no athletic, period. Now suppose there is a hotshot HS quarterback entertaining full-ride offers from UCLA and Notre Dame. Let’s say his family income is around 500K. The Yale coach would love to have this kid to prop up their perennially lousy football team so he leans on the FA office to ignore the kid’s FAFSA and CSS profile and just give a 50K grant. (BTW the thought of an Ivy coach leaning on administration is a laughable one to anyone familiar with the athletic / administration dynamic in the Ivy League)</p>
<p>Now the hotshot QB happens to be friends with another kid who was admitted to Yale. This kid is not an athlete and his family earns about 100K. The financial aid office makes this kid cover 10 grand of his tuition and fees based on the FA algorithm. The two guys get talking and pretty soon word gets out that Yale is arbitrarily awarding their financial aid, and in fact, discriminating against those who are not athletes. Hey, now we have whole class of plaintiffs!</p>
<p>It’s not naivete, it’s being all too familiar with the way the world works.</p>
<p>varska - Agreed yes ive you have personally gone through the process then its not really anecdotal but for most people who havent gone through the process all we have to rely on is anecdotal evidence from either people at our high schools, colleges, or friends that we know who are athletes and have first hand dealings with the process. Cases where word gets out about someone who really didnt need a financial aid package getting one happen on campuses all the time…in most cases though no one does anything about it b/c generally no one cares enough to go and start an investigation. Will it **** people off? Definitely…but most dont do anything. Rumors flew around my college of people who didnt need aid got it every so often even non-athlete cases. </p>
<p>Plus certain ivies have more lax financial aid criteria (particularly HYP) as noted in this article saying how cornell is having a tough time recruiting athletes because they are just getting $$$ from HYP ([Financial</a> Aid Packages Threaten Cornell Athletics | The Cornell Daily Sun](<a href=“http://cornellsun.com/node/27969]Financial”>http://cornellsun.com/node/27969))…</p>
<p>With regards to being familiar with how the world works…if this was the case then you’d know that money and connections are the only important things that matter in this world. Yes there are rules but you can always get around them and most companies, universities, etc. find ways around them. The world is not a perfect place…even if there are guidelines it doesnt mean everyone follows them…if you do then you put yourself at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I take it business ethics isn’t Wharton’s strong suit.</p>
<p>haha…true it’s not Wharton strong suit by any means…that doesnt mean that I am not an ethical person though. I dont agree with people who dont deserve FA packages getting them…that said im not going to blind myself and tell myself that this doesnt happen when the sad reality is that it does. It’s actually quite frustrating…and you see this in the corporate world all the time…people get promoted over you because of connections, the company who offers the most $ for certain things wins bids, etc. You also see it in the realm of universities. People getting better grades due to who they are, etc. </p>
<p>Reality is all of this happens, we may not agree or think that it is ethical, but we can’t just make ourselves believe that things function as they should.</p>
<p>I’ve got to get my ■■■■■ detector checked.</p>
<p>i dont understand how im being a ■■■■■…I thought we were having a pretty interesting discussion. I even took your ad hominem jabs in good spirit (despite the fact that I would have expected a bit more maturity from someone of your age) but hey if you don’t want to have a good discussion that’s fine. I would have loved to hear some more of your points (the ones you made in post #88 were particularly good/compelling).</p>
<p>Regarding post #89, Cornell recently updated their FA policies toward all recruited athletes & students. </p>
<p><a href=“https://www.finaid.cornell.edu/finaid/announcements.cfm[/url]”>https://www.finaid.cornell.edu/finaid/announcements.cfm</a></p>
<p>One could assume this FA action was in response to the previously mentioned link in post #89. However, I’m not sure that article passes the reality test. Last year (2009), Cornell made the sweet 16 in NCAA men’s basketball, final four in mens lacrosse, elite 8 in men’s hockey and top 4 finish in womens hockey. I apologize if I’ve not mentioned another successful team at Cornell. Bottom line, I’m not seeing a drop off there from an athletic point of view. Nevertheless, the policy was created to be more competitive with Ivys and other top institutions</p>
<p>Lol the business ethics thing reminded me of Billy Madison.</p>
<p>I just talked to a friend–and had to tell said friend again that ivies do not offer scholarships for merit nor athletics…
because a classmate of her student is “in” at an ivy and supposedly the mom of said lucky student is “negotiating” the scholarship…etc</p>
<p>Interestingly the student-athlete is NOT a star athlete nor a star student-- waaaay under 2000 SAT…(not even 1900) and athletes stats “ok”…
said friend is shocked this kid got “in”…</p>
<p>My friend swears that the mom of this athlete is talking about how if her athlete can raise the SAT score to …such n such, the $ award would be bigger! My friend is really upset at the prospects for her student…</p>
<p>I am not sure if this is a matter of misunderstanding on the part of the student-athlete, the s-a’s mom, or my friend…
and it remined me of the childs’s game “telephone” that we played 30+ yrs ago and how the message changes based on what we think we hear…and perhaps also what we want people to hear…
kwim?</p>
<p>For example, I know some parents who said their student HAS a LL from an ivy (for several weeks now)… however the truth is the student doesn’t HAVE the LL,
the student very recently was being offered a LL from an ivy (which the student turned down)…
Point being the parents were happy to tell how their student HAD a LL - when insiders in the same sport/recruitng all knew that no one had LLs yet–and decisions for that are now just being made.
And with the statement , “he HAS a LL from xyz…”…all sorts of rumors and worries run through the parents of other students…</p>
<p>Some of this - I chalk up to “psychological warfare”, kwim? </p>
<p>haha</p>
<p>Imagine what its like to be an Ivy coach. I’m sure they all have stories of pushy parents that ‘know for a fact’ a friend or classmate was given a full ride for their sport.</p>
<p>I think one of the reasons this is such a pervasive myth is that recipients of Ivy financial aid may be embarrassed to admit that it’s all need-based.</p>
<p>Agreed. But until you go through it (recruiting and FA) do you truly understand it. The ven diagram (intersection) of very good athlete and exceptional student is very small. Not many people experience this “opportunity” and stress. I’ve had very interesting conversations with very smart people that still don’t get it, and probably never will. Those conversations are getting few and far between, because I just don’t want to waste my breath any more. So, the pervasive myth will continue because of people like me because I will either say nothing or agree with them…that yes my S got a full ride to an Ivy! It will be our little secret. I just depends what kind of mood I’m in… ;-)</p>
<p>Well, don’t worry about convincing ME about the ivies - we just got our preread and let’s just say, it was enough to pretty much cross it off the list.</p>
<p>But what I wanted to say was that the package that came from the Fin Aid office said, “we want to congratulate you on your admission!!”</p>
<p>I understand this is a package that usually gets sent out to accepted students and they don’t bother to modify for the “what ifs” … but !!! - some <em>could</em> take that the wrong way. I mean, we provided them all the info they need for admissions, and then to get a letter like that? I suppose it might be mistaken for an actual indication of admission by some?</p>
<p>^^ That is hilarious! Was it because of a pending LL?</p>
<p>We haven’t gotten the pre-read back yet–
Dont know if we will get that before the coach calls kiddo this week–or if it will be emailed etc. The info was sent to the coach and taken to FinAid…</p>
<p>Given some of the parents I know IRL–I just might take Fenways lead on the myth perpetuation! Could be alot of fun to watch them clench their jaw, couldn’t it!</p>