Harvard or Princeton?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
181

<p>Byerly,
only if you've included the entire picture..
"But some stereotypes are based on truth. Harvard is in fact a wealthy place: more than 80 percent of the Class of 2009 hails from the top half of the national income distribution. It can also be difficult for students to garner personal attention: the student-to-faculty ratio is higher than Yale, Princeton, and the University of Pennsylvania. And an internal Harvard memo from 2002 revealed that Harvard students rate their campus’s social life below many of their peers at other elite schools. The memo, first reported in The Boston Globe, ranked Harvard 26th out of a survey of 31 colleges in student satisfaction with social life. </p>

<p>Even Fitzsimmons admits that Harvard isn’t the warmest of places. </p>

<p>“You probably aren’t going to get calls every day in your room asking you do you want to come out to play or go to lunch,” he says. “It’s not the way Harvard works.” "</p>

182

<p><a href="http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=32489%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=32489&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Harvard senior Julia Lewandoski paints a bleak picture of a weekend night in Cambridge.</p>

<p>"What happens on a Friday night at Harvard is that a lot of groups of drunk people wander around looking for places to go," she said.</p>

<p>There are sometimes room parties, she said, but they get old. There are sometimes house parties, she said, but they get old, too. Harvard has few frats -- only one with a house -- so they cannot accommodate the wandering drunk people, and the bars in gentrified Cambridge, which serve $10 cheeseburgers and $12 cocktails, are usually not an option for students.</p>

<p>"There's really not a lot of social space here," she said. "That turns final clubs into places where a surprising amount of people go."</p>

<p>Like Princeton's eating clubs, Harvard's final clubs play an important role in the social lives of at least some students. The clubs -- which, like Yale's secret societies, are old, exclusive and moneyed, but unlike Yale societies, are sex-segregated -- often throw invite-only parties in their houses, which are dispersed throughout the center of Harvard's campus. This puts the final clubs at the center of the debate surrounding campus social life: what Harvard can do to offer its students a better Friday night.</p>

<p>(As others have noted, Princeton's eating clubs are coed, and nonmembers can easily attend most events.)</p>

183

<p>This is priceless - a Princeton parent using a Yale Daily News story to bash Harvard. But I'm afraid the Yalies beat you to it:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=169434%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=169434&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Does no one want to respond to my Easter greetings? ;)</p>

184

<p>But a lot of applicants and admits ARE turned away due to the supposed pretension of the eating clubs, whether that's real or not. </p>

<p>Like it or not, the secret societies, finals clubs and eating clubs all impinge on social life and egalitarianism.</p>

<p>Cosar would be right--the same princeton parent would probably use a Harvard Crimson piece to bag on Yale if need be.</p>

185

<p>The bottom line is that most common admits choose Harvard over either Princeton or Yale by a wide margin.</p>

<p>The setting in what Fiske, in his widely-read guide, calls "the quintessential college town" is clearly at least part of the reason.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.epodunk.com/top10/colleges/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.epodunk.com/top10/colleges/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

186

<p>Zephyr, I don't "bag on" Yale. Where are you getting that? I am a big fan of Yale, and there are lots of things I like about Harvard, too, as I've stated repeatedly here, and I am pretty familiar with both. My goal here is to convey Princeton in a way that moves beyond the stereotypes. The student body, the campus culture, and the eating clubs are often stereotyped here and I don't think that's helpful to prospective students.</p>

187

<p>Hoy Mothers! I thought we’ve done with this. You folk’s Not celebrating Easter? Now that I have some free time and good spirit (especially after hearing glorious “Parsifal” prelude, what other music piece is so appropriate for “Easter”), I am in a good mood to continue what is left, unfinished and to wrap things up. First and foremost, all pre-law students should go to schools with good “English/History/Social sciences” education and we know “HYPS” undoubtedly provide excellent educations in those areas, as evidenced by the Trinity admit data. </p>

<p>Now, one more time, look at my list:</p>

<p>Best Medical School: Harvard, JHU
Best Law School (aka Trinity): Harvard Yale Stanford
Best Business School: Harvard, UPenn, Stanford, UChicago, Kellogg, Sloan
Best Engineering Schools (Up to PhD): MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, Caltech</p>

<p>And well-established fact, (I quoted from General’s comments)</p>

<p>“Yale will get you clerkships, Harvard will get you corporate work, and Stanford will plug you into the "new economy" very nicely.”</p>

<p>Are you folks still not seeing the correlation? Of course the Trinity law school provide all the ingredients necessary to launch a law career whether in “clerkship” or “corporate” or “new economy”. When one look at these carefully, you will see this: “clerkship” is more like a “lawyer/judge” type who will be champions of the underprivileged, who should be an expert on “social issues” ( Y’s strong point, so people refers it as a “liberal” ivy). “Corporate” is more like a “business” (H’s). “New economy” is more related to “new cutting-edge technology, sciences, engineering” (S’s) - “patent lawyer” (degrees in under engineering and Law) types. </p>

<p>This proves my point, “the relationship between the professional (graduate) schools and undergraduate program”. Thus my assertion, for most cross-admit, “H is preferred. </p>

<p>Finally, General, I wish you nothing but the best for your law school and future jurisprudential career. I am certain you will succeed.</p>

<p>Fondly,
WDW</p>

188

<p>AP5 (good score, btw),</p>

<p>I completely agree that the repetition of unfounded stereotypes is not helpful to prospective students. What I don’t understand is why so many Princeton fans feel that the best way to defend against unfounded Princeton stereotypes is to repeat unfounded Harvard stereotypes. And I don’t really mean to pick on you in particular – you’re far from the worst offender. You just gave me too good a setup for trying to point out the absurdity of this thread.</p>

189

<p>Cosar, I don't expect you to go back and read my posts, but if you do you will find that I consistently talk about students I know at Harvard who are having a good experience. I posted above because of the mention of Princeton in the article. I think that overall on cc there is a dump-on-Harvard mentality that comes out of sheer envy. However, on the Princeton board hostility to Harvard comes out of something else. 1) the belief that a Princeton educational experience offers something very special that is not readily available at Harvard and 2) the fact that one particular poster appears to have made it his mission in life to put down Princeton and boost Harvard here.</p>

190

<p>My thoughts exactly, Cosar. </p>

<p>I myself have never EVER criticized the virtues of a Princeton education, here or anywhere else. Nor have I EVER urged a single poster ANYWHERE to apply to college X or not to apply to college Y.</p>

<p>Thus certainly does not mean that I do not respond to the cliche anti-Harvard stuff so prevalent on this page and elsewhere on CC, which even aparent5 confesses stems primarily from a degree of jealousy or envy. It has ever been thus.</p>

<p>Most of what I post, here and elsewhere, consists of citations to comparative statistical data and independent evaluations, which often give the lie to over-the-top assertions by enthusiastic trolls such as aparent5 (God bless him!) If these trolls view such data and evaluations (generally with links provided) as improperly "boosting" Harvard, well ... that is their problem. Harvard doesn't need any "boosting" from me.</p>

191

<p>Byerly, I wasn't "confessing." I don't suffer from that particular malady. (It was I who advised my d that Princeton was a better place for her than Harvard.) I was making an observation about the cc boards in general; here on the Princeton board I believe anti-Harvard posts grow out of a very unfortunate dynamic that has developed over the years as the result of a constant, Johnny-One Note defense of Harvard, i.e., more students choose it. I am really surprised to hear you say Harvard doesn't need any "boosting" from you. Glad to hear that! I look forward to a change of tune...</p>

<p>My last post on this thread.</p>

192

<p>Byerly,</p>

<p>That is mean to call aparent5 a troll. Aparent is one of the most balanced of posters.</p>

193

<p>I think bringing up views of a school that come from studies and actual experiences of the school’s students is completely legitimate. We shouldn’t claim it is “bashing” just because the information may be negative. And I don’t think we should think it is awful when the information is positive either. Harvard and Princeton are just schools, not people. We should be able to talk about their good or bad points without feeling obligated to talk about both.</p>

<p>What I am looking for is a way to legitimately answer the concerns that have been raised about Harvard by Harvard itself. Simply dismissing this stuff as “anti-Harvard” still leaves the concerns on the table. If I can’t convince myself that no real problem exists, then I am probably going to have to bring up the bad Harvard stuff every year for the next twelve years to try to help my kids see what I think is the truth about the school.</p>

<p>It is fairly easy to point out the important stuff about most schools. But with Harvard, kids tend to nurse their fantasies so much that mentioning anything bad causes anger. In my home I am finding I have to combat this with lots of dosages of reality, page after page of information. I did this with my first kid, and now it seems I am going to have to do it with the next! What I want is to find that the concerns I have about Harvard are unfounded. Unfortunately, I am finding that Harvard leaders and students are verifying that my concerns are warranted.</p>

<p>On one student review site where the reviews are checked for legitimacy, almost half of the Harvard student reviews were bitterly negative. And the neutral reviews were almost as bad as the negative reviews. I think Princeton had only 5 negative reviews in the whole batch. I found similar patterns elsewhere, with one study putting Harvard almost dead last in terms of student satisfaction. What I found most telling was that even Harvard’s POSITIVE reviews acknowledged the same problems that the negative reviews mentioned so bitterly. Here is a sampling of the just the positive reviews, with the problem indicators in bold:</p>

<p>--Harvard is great. **A lot of students feel negatively about it* because they think that there is something "better" out there. If you actually speak with members of the student body, many of them left and came back because they realized that other schools weren't any better off socially, the financial aid was terrible, and that getting wasted every night really doesn't make the college experience any better.*</p>

<p>--Overall, I'm incredibly happy with Harvard. **I think that there are currently a few problems with the academics--which, of course, are being ironed out--but that these problems aren't as **big as some people make them out to be.</p>

<p>It seems to me that as a parent I have a duty to warn my kids about an environment that threatens what I think the whole point of school should be. It is not “bashing” the school to point out this stuff. And it is entirely inappropriate to ONLY say good things about another school when your kid is looking to have a school that could be a real problem. Doing such a thing is like a parent ONLY telling their teenage daughter about how nice the boy next door is, when the kid has eyes for a forty year-old chain smoking tattooed homeless drunk in the city.</p>

<p>The next positive reviews on the site I mentioned, edited for brevity, and with problem indicators in bold:</p>

<p>I have been at Harvard for 3 years and I am looking forward to another fantastic year before graduating. I love the campus, the students and the city it's in. I really expected to have to look after myself here and I was not wrong in that aspect. The college expects you to take the initiative and get things done. After all, it's our academic lives, **not theirs…As for the profs, they can be hard to get.* But they generally are the best in their fields and they do care a lot of their work. Given that their primary goal is to further the boundaries of human knowledge, it is not unusual to find them lacking in their role as teachers…*</p>

<p>I reject this kid’s view of his professors that teaching is ‘not their’ education. Yet, I don’t worry about this one for my own kids because they are intense about learning and are used to teaching themselves. But I also think learning is best when the learned readily seek to share what they know with others so that the unlearned can join them in the search for answers to the big questions in our world. I want my kids to have an environment where students are intellectually coming alive in ways they didn’t know existed. In this way, my kids get the maximum benefit possible. You all know what its like to find something new and great for the first time. It is explosive! You want to work on it all day and into the night. And you want to sit up late talking about it with others. You want to knock on your friend’s doors to have lunch or dinner so you can both argue about it, or share something about it. What I want for my kids is an environment where this kind of thing is happening as much as possible. I get the impression that this sort of thing “is not how Harvard works”.</p>

<p>I don’t mean to tell Harvard how to run its business. The only thing I care about is getting the facts I need to help my kids make informed choices about the schools they want to chase. I want my kids to enjoy a scholarly community of students and professors. So I don’t think Harvard is a good fit for us.</p>

<p>The next few positive reviews ALL deal with branding, with little or no mention of anything concerning the life of the school. They were all like this:</p>

<p>I had a liberal arts education and never got any graduate degree. I was lucky to have chosen the field of banking in 1983…. Having graduated from a brand name school certainly helped to open some doors in the first few years.</p>

<p>Almost all of the remaining positive reviews have indicators that acknowledge problems and that, when you consider them with the well published issues at Harvard, suggest to me the school has serious issues with its undergraduate educational culture. Here is yet another:</p>

<p>I don't know if the others on this site are just having bad experiences of what. Harvard is NOT too expensive if you are compare it to other colleges…As far as the education, you can NOT get a better one…The only negative thing about Harvard is that **it is SOOOOO competitive. I think these kids were absent the days we learned about group learning and group projects in middle school. They just don't want to have it. It is often said* that professors cannot assign group problem sets because they students will complain so much that they never have time to meet. This probably is the case, but our workload is insane. But seriously, working together is a good thing sometimes.*</p>

<p>And here is a neutral comment by a Harvard alumnus:</p>

<p>Harvard is a finishing school for the upper middle class and those who wish to enter the upper middle class. The majority of students come here with a firm idea of what they want to accomplish. Though Harvard does try to create a more liberal arts education with its core program, its students are really driven to look for certain things that would advance their careers. **Forget about faculty interaction, most of the popular classes are taught by graduate students. Sometimes the teaching is not competent* but exceptional results are still expected and often achieved. This illustrates the dynamic that student quality at Harvard is high but the administration takes it too much for granted as a result and can get away with doing very little to support them. However, there is a very high concentration of exceptional individuals that you're not going to meet anywhere else -- roughly 10% of the student population. It makes up for the experience somewhat but Harvard was still in many ways, a disappointment. It is a great school if you are interested in taking another step beyond prep school into your father's business. Otherwise a smaller liberal arts school without dominating, and wealthy, graduate schools (the medical school, gilded in ostentatious marble, for instance), is a better choice for actual learning.*</p>

<p>The Harvard name brand is great. I don’t think anyone can seriously argue against this. But I think as the comment above suggests, that name comes in large part from Harvard’s serious investment in its graduate schools. I also think it comes from a onetime Hollywood infatuation with those graduate schools.</p>

<p>But think about this. Harvard people here are being forced to argue all over cc (and on other sites) in favor of Harvard against the proponents of the very tiny Princeton. That is just amazing! Princeton is hanging tough against Harvard despite Harvard’s big professional schools and Hollywood branding.</p>

<p>How can this be? Is it because of Princeton’s big professional schools? Obviously not. Is it because Hollywood has had an infatuation with Princeton? Obviously not. So then how is it that this small school in Jersey can actually hold its own against the relatively gigantic school in Boston? The answer is clear. Princeton is standing tough against Harvard mostly on the quality of its undergraduate education product.</p>

<p>After reading as much as I can about schools, I am pushing Princeton (and one other school in CT :) which seems to be a mix of the great things about Harvard and Princeton) to all of my kids when it comes to their undergraduate careers. I just don’t think Princeton has any true rival here. If Princeton ever decides to build law, business, and medicine programs using the same vision it has followed for undergraduate education, the school will be absolutely untouchable across the board.</p>

194

<p>phew, hats off to that!</p>

195

<p>
[quote]
And well-established fact, (I quoted from General’s comments)</p>

<p>“Yale will get you clerkships, Harvard will get you corporate work, and Stanford will plug you into the "new economy" very nicely.”</p>

<p>Are you folks still not seeing the correlation? Of course the Trinity law school provide all the ingredients necessary to launch a law career whether in “clerkship” or “corporate” or “new economy”. When one look at these carefully, you will see this: “clerkship” is more like a “lawyer/judge” type who will be champions of the underprivileged, who should be an expert on “social issues” ( Y’s strong point, so people refers it as a “liberal” ivy). “Corporate” is more like a “business” (H’s). “New economy” is more related to “new cutting-edge technology, sciences, engineering” (S’s) - “patent lawyer” (degrees in under engineering and Law) types. </p>

<p>This proves my point, “the relationship between the professional (graduate) schools and undergraduate program”. Thus my assertion, for most cross-admit, “H is preferred.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>While there's definitely truth in my descriptions of the various characters of these institutions, I would caution against making too much of the generalizations I described. There's complexity and ambiguity in the cultures and opportunities at each school; it's not an iron law or anything.</p>

<p>In any event, yes; each school has a general flavor, which does seem to correspond with its undergraduate program. But I would argue that this is a case of correlation, not causation. Both the undergraduate program and the graduate program have a certain character because the overall university has that character. I don't necessarily think its because the professional programs influence the undergraduate programs.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Finally, General, I wish you nothing but the best for your law school and future jurisprudential career. I am certain you will succeed.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Thank you for the kind words. I wish the same to you in your own future endeavors.</p>

196

<p>wow, just skimming this thread...i can tell it's mostly based on stereotypes of harvard. 1) harvard students are ultra-competitive and have no fun...WRONG (see my previous posts in the harvard forum) 2) most classes are taught by graduate students...WRONG (only intro math classes - graduate students lead sections, not lectures). </p>

<p>I don't want to get in to the whole harvard vs. princeton debate again, but i'd just like to offer my experience at harvard so far. Not only has it been uniformly positive, but I've gained so much from the tremendous resources Harvard has to offer that i don't think I would have gotten anywhere near the same had I gone anywhere else. Eg. so far this semester, I've met John Kerry, Mark Warner (potential 08 presidential candidate), Tommy Hilfiger, Halle Berry, tons of politicans/senators, etc and today James Watson (of Watson and Crick) came to talk to my Bioethics class (which is co-taught by Sandel and Melton). The current Secretary of Treasury is coming to give a lecture to my intro Economics class (first time ever a Secretary of Treasury has done that). Professor Dershowitz came to my Justice class last semester for a debate. These are just names off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more. I think one of the advantages of Harvard is the TREMENDOUS resources it has to offer: think of its law school, med school, business school, kennedy school of government, as well as the faculty of arts and sciences. I think Preguntas mentioned she/he wanted to go to law school...you can take classes at Harvard Law as an undergrad (I plan on doing that next year). Harvard also has the Institute of Politics...solely for undergrads and more senators/politicans have visited Harvard than any other university (second: MIT...I suspect it's because it's close to Harvard). The Harvard Government department is one of the best in the country...I think in terms of opportunities and resources...Harvard beats any university hands down.</p>

197

<p><a href="http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/04.13/01-ethics.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/04.13/01-ethics.html&lt;/a>
This class is absolutely amazing...thought you should read about it. Definitely recommend taking it if you come to Harvard.</p>

198

<p>I know two kids who have been very, very happy at Harvard. One is a math genius who is going to Stanford for grad school next year, courtesy of Google. The other is a political wunderkind who is now a Rhodes Scholar and had a prominent job on the Kerry campaign straight out of college. They have both had access to outstanding resources and are strong proponents of their school. The second kid pitched Harvard to both my older brother and myself and was disappointed we didn't apply. </p>

<p>The reason my brother and I steered clear despite their satisfaction was that we did not think everyone (such as us) would thrive in that environment. Harvard offers remarkable opportunities and resources, but making use of them appears to require a great amount of intelligent selection, initiative, and perseverance. It is a school where my two acquaintances were happy because they knew what they wanted out of their educations and where they wanted to go with their lives, so they were able to find their niche. I think it is admirable and commendable that the students of Harvard have this initiative, and I think Harvard itself is to be praised for offering such resources. </p>

<p>However, Princeton DOES offer advantages Harvard does not. It merely depends on which environment is better for the student in question. My two acquaintances throve at Harvard. My brother has found Princeton's environment to be more student-friendly. I mean this in the sense that it is easier to take classes with amazing faculty (and no TAs at all) and easier to develop relationships with faculty. It is easier for kids who don't have as much clear direction in their studies to have an outstanding education and find their purpose. Kids at Princeton don't slip through the cracks. They don't have to seek out the resources as persistently; rather, they must actively avoid them if they want to coast. I say these things to point out that Harvard-bashing and Princeton-belittling are pointless ... they are both outstanding schools with unusually good resources. They are not, however, the same. Their strengths play to different students. I would not recommend Harvard for my brother or for myself. I would not recommend Princeton for my two acquaintances. Both schools have produced graduates who are happy, successful, and devoted to their school, and for good reason.</p>

199

<p>
[quote]
wow, just skimming this thread...i can tell it's mostly based on stereotypes of harvard.

[/quote]
I’d like to believe the thread is mere stereotyping against Harvard, but when I read things like the article below, I find it impossible to do:</p>

<p>Prevalent stereotypes about how Harvard undergraduates have less fun than their peers found empirical confirmation last Tuesday, when the Boston Globe reported that Harvard students gave lower ratings to their college experience than students at other elite schools in a 2002 survey.
<a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=506799%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=506799&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This, combined with what many Harvard students are saying at Harvard itself, suggests to me that there are some serious problems with Harvard culture when it comes to undergraduate education. Sure, some under grads will do fine because they are perhaps already sold on an area of study and are not that interested in exploring anything else (which seems pretty sad to me, but whatever…). But very many, perhaps the majority of kids right out of high school, are probably going to benefit most from an educational culture that promotes intellectual exploration and collaboration. Collaboration is a BIG requirement for young scholars because it helps them see academic subjects, and life, in new often more vibrant ways than is possible for them to see on their own. I just don’t see that this sort of thing is a well-established component of Harvard life. And it needs to be a well-established component in my opinion. Otherwise, you are just going to produce a lot of button mashing busy-bodies who, at best, make a lot of money but who don’t know how to revel in being alive because they have no clue WHY they are alive.</p>

<p>As the above article mentions, Harvard’s culture of “busy-ness” is to blame for Harvard’s academic problems. These things just don’t change overnight, and they affect everything. Here is how Harvard once tried to handle some of the culture’s fallout, reported humorously by the Prince:</p>

<p>*Harvard students are often accused of having inflated egos. We at the Prince are pleased to report, however, that they demonstrate a healthy humility in at least one important area.</p>

<p>According to a recent story in the campus paper, which we are not making up, student government leaders in Cambridge have determined that Harvard's dating scene is "pretty poor." Not content to let loverless learners languish, they've resolved to take action in order to get more action. "We want to try and tackle the issue," explains one rising politician.</p>

<p>The emergency agenda calls for subsidized movie tickets (sold in pairs) and instructional programs aimed to "make the dating process easier for people." The student council plans to invest over $1,000 in the effort, eager to maximize bangs for the buck.</p>

<p>We're skeptical — some problems just can't be solved by committee. We agree with our peer paper's intrepid editorialist, who put her finger on the "root cause" of Harvard's dating difficulties: timid guys. Princetonians have said for years that Harvard men are less bold Crimson than privileged, peevish pink.*
<a href="http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2003/02/28/opinion/7459.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2003/02/28/opinion/7459.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This kind of thing is just plain weird. And it’s also a shame. It just seems to me that what Harvard needs to do is get a Core Curriculum that shows students who they are within our western civilized framework and in relation to other cultures (and for goodness sakes cutting out the weird stuff), while also crafting a faculty that’s really into teaching and guiding its students to see real purpose in learning and true joy in life. The dating stuff would then take care of itself. You know, there is just no way some guy who reads Yeats so that he starts thinking in terms of it, is gonna see some babe and walk away thinking of her as an unreachable thing unworthy of a risk. The significance of human life, the value of risk, and the experience of simply reaching toward some cherished body will become too apparent to the young scholar to permit him to huddle away.</p>

<p>I understand you’ve met a bunch of politicians, some scientists, a clothing designer, a lawyer, and an actress. That is all good, but (and I could be missing something here) I can’t see how these apparently random one-time events will be typically integrated into any student’s life so that they do him or anyone else any lasting good in this world. I’m not saying these things can’t be useful. I just don’t see how they necessarily make Harvard the center of education when many other schools have luminaries campaign-- uh--speaking at them too.</p>

200

<p>"It just seems to me that what Harvard needs to do is get a Core Curriculum that shows students who they are within our western civilized framework and in relation to other cultures (and for goodness sakes cutting out the weird stuff), while also crafting a faculty that’s really into teaching and guiding its students to see real purpose in learning and true joy in life."</p>

<p>Harvard does have a core curriculum...really shows how much you know about it, huh?</p>

<p>I always find it funny how people who don't go to Harvard claim that "most students there are unhappy". That's just bull*****. Let someone who is currently at Harvard tell you 1) yes, some people are unhappy here (just like I'm sure there are unhappy students at Princeton) 2) but they are a minute minority. Harvard is not for everyone. Pastariffic was right in that at Princeton, you get more support. At Harvard, you're expected to go out and seize the myriad of opportunities. We do have a great support system in the form of proctors, academic advisors, House tutors, etc. But they're not there to hold your hand and lead you through your 4 years. Pastarific wrote: "Harvard offers remarkable opportunities and resources, but making use of them appears to require a great amount of intelligent selection, initiative, and perseverance." Well, to me, initiative and perseverance are highly valuable traits, not just for college, but for life after college too. </p>

<p>"I understand you’ve met a bunch of politicians, some scientists, a clothing designer, a lawyer, and an actress. That is all good, but (and I could be missing something here) I can’t see how these apparently random one-time events will be typically integrated into any student’s life so that they do him or anyone else any lasting good in this world."</p>

<p>LOL, sorry, I just found that amusing. You call Watson "some scientist"? He's the father of modern genetics (along w/ Crick). I don't see him going to Princeton to give a lecture on bioethics. I don't know about you, but I've definitely learned a lot through my encounters with these people. haha...I'm still laughing over calling Watson "some scientist"...some scientist, indeed.</p>