<p>Harvard's Kennedy School of Government is a graduate school. </p>
<p>The Woodrow Wilson School, affectionately known as Woody Woo, is a program to which about half of applicants are admitted. You can also major in politics at Princeton, or do a certificate (minor) in Woody Woo or American Studies. You can also major in history, which is generally counted as one of the top two departments in the country. Actually, you can major in just about anything and go to law school. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that there are many students aiming for law school at Princeton. Right now I'm sure you feel as though you are out there on your own worrying, but on campus you will have the opportunity to compare notes with students your age and to learn from others who are already going through the process.</p>
<p>To get rid of eating clubs would cause a coup of never-before-seen proportions. Those who chose to join and eating club their junior or senior years are quite wedded to their choice, and to get rid of them would eliminate a very unique aspect of Princeton culture. The administration is offering alternatives to the eating club scene, and the presence of the eating clubs is all the better: coming to Princeton means opening yourself up to myriad dining, residential, and social options. You can't beat that, imo.</p>
<p>Preguntas, rest assured, graduating in the top half of your class at Princeton will certainly get you into many fine law schools. I should also note that I was in the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton. All of my classmates at the Wilson School who applied to law schools had multiple offers from the best. The Woodrow Wilson School is an incredible place giving you access to government officials at the highest level. When I was at Harvard Law School I attended some gatherings at the Kennedy School but, as an earlier poster noted, its important to remember that the Kennedy School is only for graduate students. Undergraduates interested in law and politics typically select the Government major at Harvard.</p>
<p>You also ask about transfers. Im sure there must be some who transfer from Princeton to Harvard but you are correct, the opposite cannot occur since Princeton doesnt accept transfers. Its now or never for Princeton while your law school experience can be at Harvard or elsewhere.</p>
<p>Good luck in your decision! One final bit of advice, on both this board and the Harvard board, dont pay much attention to the ramblings of people who havent actually attended the institutions of which they speak!</p>
<p>Also, without having attended Princeton, isnt it a little difficult for you to speak with authority about it? (Note to the editor: unsupported claims do not count as rational arguments but Byerly, you know this you went to Harvard.) In regard to failing to be accepted at one of the bicker clubs, you state that [t]hat means the other half are [sic] banished to less prestigeous [sic] venues. Not at all. With the possible exception of Ivy (to which most undergraduates would never consider applying) there is no social ranking of eating clubs.</p>
<p>Then there is the issue of the administrations intentions and reasoning. Now Byerly, unless you can post some links to convincing articles proving a concerted effort on the part of Nassau Hall to destroy the eating clubs, Ill have to characterize your opinions as, well, just opinions. There certainly is room for improvement in the operation of the clubs (alcohol abuse continues to be a problem on every campus) and their relationship to the university, but then Harvard has a rather awkward relationship with the Final Clubs as well. (Here Ill just have to admit that its my opinion but, wait, I did attend Harvard as well as Princeton so perhaps I do have some firsthand knowledge!) (<a href="http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=32489%5B/url%5D">http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=32489</a>)</p>
<p>You write that these anachonistic [sic] institutions must and will go. I disagree with you here. They certainly will change and grow but I doubt theyll disappear. My guess is that as the four year college system takes shape, there will be new relationships forged between the colleges and the eating clubs. I can imagine an affiliation between certain clubs and colleges that would expand the social opportunities of both.</p>
<p>So, Byerly, when you come to play on the Princeton board, remember to bring logic and evidence or well have to send you scurrying back to the Harvard board! Still, its fun to have you around to needle.</p>
<p>That's bull! While this is no proper evidence of a higher admit rate per se it is fact that most admits in the top professional schools come from the college of the same university. Cetainly the case with HLS and HBS.</p>
<p>As for the choice: visit both in the same week and let your heart decide. You cannot go wrong.</p>
<p>H has the bigger brand, but given the proximity in prestige, that brand value difference is close to negligeable.</p>
<p>btw, great read on the harvard final clubs, PG2000. this should be posted every time some harvard partisan tries to demean princeton's eating clubs or compare them unfavorably.</p>
<p>"Like Princeton's eating clubs, Harvard's final clubs play an important role in the social lives of at least some students. The clubs -- which, like Yale's secret societies, are old, exclusive and moneyed, but unlike Yale societies, are sex-segregated -- often throw invite-only parties in their houses, which are dispersed throughout the center of Harvard's campus.</p>
<hr>
<p>"Students gain membership to a final club through the "punch" process, which occurs each year in September and October. In contrast to Princeton's eating clubs, which accept applications, students cannot apply to be punched, but are identified through networks of friends. Each club initially punches 100 to 150 students, usually sophomores, and through a series of events narrows the pool down to 15 or 20.</p>
<hr>
<p>"The controversy surrounding final clubs, Hill said, boils down to two main aspects of the organizations: They are single-sex, and they are exclusive. Harvard's final clubs are unique among the 'HYP' elite organizations in remaining single-sex, as both the secret societies and the eating clubs were co-ed by the early 1990s. Though the final clubs were always private, they became completely dissociated from the university in 1984 when Harvard said the clubs could either go co-ed or dissociate.</p>
<hr>
<p>"But many undergraduates said that despite the university's official separation from the final clubs, the clubs play a large role in the experience of Harvard students...."</p>
<p>furthermore, from a balanced portrait of the princeton eating club scene that appeared in the yale daily news on tuesday:</p>
<p>"In comparison to Harvard's final clubs or Yale's secret societies, Princeton's eating clubs are in many ways less exclusive. Even the selective bicker clubs have open application; any student can go through the bicker process. Neither final clubs nor secret societies accept applications; students are simply 'tapped' for membership, or at Harvard, 'punched.'"</p>
<p>Partly because of those unfavorable reports about undergrad. education at Harvard, my S didn't bother to apply. But in defense of Harvard, I wonder if perhaps the best-of-the-best reputation and tremendous build-up for the school is so great that it can't help but disappoint? Ie. nothing could be that good?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Partly because of those unfavorable reports about undergrad. education at Harvard, my S didn't bother to apply.
[/quote]
I think students do themselves a disservice when they make decisions like this based on unfounded stereotypes. Despite my urging to the contrary, my S refused even to look at Princeton based in part on stereotypes about its elitist/preppy/snobby culture. </p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that both are terrific schools, and any student accomplished enough to gain admission to either could be happy and get a great education at either. If you're lucky enough to have the choice, I'd suggest spending some time (preferably including an overnight on campus) at each and trying to get a sense for where you'd be more comfortable. But the great likelihood is that, even if you made the decision based on the toss of a coin, you'd be happy at whichever school you ended up attending.</p>
<p>I could offer a lengthy list of stereotypes that have no basis in truth (ethnic stereotypes, racial stereotypes, gender stereotypes and, yes, even Princeton stereotypes), but I'd offend too many people in doing so.</p>
<p>I went to Princeton undergrad, Harvard grad and was a Harvard prof for a while.</p>
<p>I think Princeton is for most people a superior undergraduate institution. Senior people pay attention to you. On average, I believe students work harder. The junior and especially senior thesis really push you. At Harvard, you can just wallow and no one will notice. At Princeton, someone likely will. At Harvard, it is much easier to put together a series of easy courses to get by without working to hard. Probably possible but not so easy at Princeton.</p>
<p>Princeton is superb for athletes (great facilities). But, you are in the middle of NJ. It is not a cultural mecca. If you need cultural attractions (lots of theater, good restaurants, art museums, etc.), Harvard is superior. But, otherwise, I think Princeton really has an edge for most undergraduates. </p>
<p>At my last reunion, I spent time with my friends, who include the dean of a law school, the ex-CEO of a Fortune 100 company, private equity folks, people who work on international development at the World Bank, doctors, technology CEOs, engineers, public servants, investment bankers, lawyers, the head of a major charity. People are surprisingly loyal.</p>