Sounds like one needs to do the “white male club” as the Black Woman’s Club is ok
Elitist, yes, but I fail to see how final clubs are sexist.
I’ve always thought college social clubs were silly, but if someone else wants to join, it’s none of my business. I think this whole thing is over the top.
ITT: white males worrying about no longer being able to benefit from white supremacy.
Wrong. Members of an all white, no minorities club that admits both men and women is free of any sanctions. White supremacy is a-ok in Harvard’s books so long as it involves both men and women. That’s why this policy is so stupid. A guy joins an all male choir at a local church in Boston: must be an awful person who should never hold any leadership position at Harvard. Girl joins a co-ed group in Boston that only allows rich, cisgender, heterosexual white people, and that group’s sole mission is to meet every week to fantasize and discuss how much better life would be if there were no poor people, transpeople, gay people, or minorities: still espouses Harvard’s values and eligible to run for student council president.
“Members of an all white, no minorities club that admits both men and women is free of any sanctions.”
Oh, come on. If there were whites-only clubs at Harvard, members would be sanctioned. Racially restrictive clubs weren’t written into this rule because they don’t exist. You might as well claim that it’s “a-ok” with Harvard for students to join space alien groups. It’s not necessary to forbid students from joining things that aren’t there.
Being historically and predominantly white is a whole different thing – that’s an accurate descriptor of Harvard itself (and Brown).
I’m not talking about groups AT Harvard. I’m talking about groups completely unaffiliated. The policy is what the policy is. There are absolutely racially restrictive groups in the greater Boston area, to pretend otherwise is naive.
@jrhmdtraum - University-recognized clubs at Harvard are ALL subject to the university non-discrimination policies. Thus, a Black Women’s Club is open to any eager white male who has the inkling to join.
Example:The Kuumba Singers group, an African Folk Music group which performed for Parents’ Weekend included singers of multiple races.
I think the final clubs are ridiculous but I also think Harvards new rules are equally ridiculous. Mark Zuckerberg was a member of AE pi which is also subject to the new rules. We can argue the value of FB but I think it has a tremendous positive impact on the world
This article just came out today in the NYT: http://nytimes.com/2016/08/07/education/edlife/are-final-clubs-too-exclusive-for-harvard.html?_r=1
And the flipside from Amherst: http://www.bustle.com/articles/23745-lets-ban-fraternities-and-sororities-amherst-college-just-did-it-and-heres-why-everybody-else-should
can we unpin this thread please? no responses in a long time.
Surprised that nobody is talking about the fact that this rule was overturned for class of 2021.
^^ That’s because it wasn’t overturned, so there’s nothing to talk about!
Crimson (12/5/16): http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2016/12/5/faculty-council-declines-sanction-vote/
Harvard Magazine (12/6/16): http://harvardmagazine.com/2016/12/harvard-faculty-defers-vote-final-club-sanctions
@gibby You’re right. It seems i misinterpreted the crimson headline i received as meaning that they were at least delaying the rule by a year.
I was a member of an all-male club several decades ago. Recently, I was struck by the realization that my association there led me to some of the boldest and most progressive thinking of my life. In the safety of a fraternal organization in which, regardless of how intense our debates could become, we would still be friends and brothers at the end of the night was intellectually liberating. Today’s campus climate seems to be the exact opposite of this experience: differing and challenging opinions seem to be shamed and punished. For myself, I am eternally grateful for having been allowed to be young and foolish for a time. That personal freedom led me to grow in to something much different than I was when I first walked on to campus. No doubt, I was occasionally politically incorrect, frequently wrong and even loutish at times but I was permitted to grow up on my own terms and at my own pace. My growth as an individual was organic and earned, not foisted upon me. Today, I consider myself an excellent leader of a large, diverse group of people. For what it’s worth, I’ve never hired anyone that was associated with my club. My relationship with fellow members is purely social. Punishing people for choosing to do what they legally have a right to do in their free time smacks of misplaced good intention.
“Today’s campus climate seems to be the exact opposite of this experience: differing and challenging opinions seem to be shamed and punished.”
Where exactly do you get that idea? Surely not from personal experience. I go here now, and people get into arguments ALL the time; students generally don’t shy away from voicing opinions that might be less popular. I don’t quite get what argument you’re making, anyway. Your all-male club was a good experience for you, so all-male clubs can’t have issues? You grew a lot intellectually in your all-male club, so the same growth (or better) can’t happen elsewhere? No one is arguing that members of final clubs don’t have a great and intellectually enriching time. In fact, that’s precisely the issue. They’re arguing that that valuable experience you had is extremely inaccessible–in fact, nearly impossible to achieve–for women on campus.
I truly want to understand what point you’re making so we can have a conversation. I have plenty of my own issues with the policy, but I’m not sure what yours are.
What an unfortunate breach on freedom of association!
I’m sure it can - that’s not justification for punishing people who choose to do it in a single sex club off campus.
Maybe the discussion on campus is different, but everything I’ve read on the story has nothing to do with this. It is not nearly impossible for women to achieve what is being described. It may be impossible for them to join those specific orgs, but the experiences provided by those orgs are easily replicated in similar all-female environments. Accordning to the most recent statements from Faust, the problem is the idea that ANY primarily social group unaffiliated with the university is closed off to a given gender. Obviously since a capella groups sing and sports teams play sports those gender barriers are completely acceptable…
Latest (July 2017) recommendation from Harvard faculty:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/7/13/new-sanctions/#.WWaMDWfnuOc.facebook