http://freebeacon.com/culture/task-force-proposes-harvard-expel-students-who-join-all-male-clubs/
It’s about time! And I’m saying that with a daughter who graduated Harvard feeling the social atmosphere of the school was run by an old boys network for the purpose and pleasure of Harvard men.
Gee, I wish my two Harvard men found that the social atmosphere of the school was run for their pleasure.
If your sons were in final clubs, I’m sure they did feel socially privileged.
What percentage of students join finals clubs?
Indeed, they are not in final clubs. But they don’t feel they create an atmosphere that the school is run for the pleasure of men, or even final club men.
I imagine that’s because your sons, who are not members of a final club, do not get invited to any of the events. However, women do. Maybe your sons are oblivious to the lines of women from Harvard and neighboring schools lined up get admitted to a final club with “Studio 54” like bouncers who pick only the prettiest/sexiest women to be admitted. Granted this is a biased article just because it was written by the Yale Daily News, but your son’s cannot be living in a vacuum that they haven’t witnessed this: http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2006/04/05/final-clubs-provide-controversial-social-outlet. IMHO, there are actually three Harvard’s – one for men who belong to final club, one for men who do not belong to a final club, and one for women. I think the administration’s goal, which I applaud, is to create a social atmosphere where all three groups are on equal footing.
this may just be my perception but my impression so far has been that no one cares about final clubs unless you’re in one or trying to join one. otherwise, there are plenty of other places to party that are more inclusive. also, if the final clubs aren’t officially recognized/affiliated with the university anyway, is it even within their power to crack down on them like that? (unless I’m completely wrong)
One of my kids is a student at Harvard. Their perception of final clubs is similar to radmadeline and notjoe. Gibby I am sorry that your daughter did not have a good time at Harvard. But that is the exception rather than the rule.
There is also an issue of freedom of association which is guaranteed by the US Constitution.
Actually the final club seem much tamer than the fraternities at many schools. It may be just my perception but I think a lot of the Yale students are jealous of Harvard and will say many things out of jealousy
Actually, the Constitution says nothing about freedom of association, although subsequent Supreme Court cases have said that is part of freedom of speech. In any event, it means that GOVERNMENT cannot restrict your freedom of speech/association. Harvard can restrict your associations as a condition of attendance at Harvard, if they want to.
I am not so sure Harvard can limit your freedom of association. As an example could they tell you that you have to go to the Catholic church or you cant get in
@proudparent, @notjoe and @radmadeline: Putting my daughter’s experience aside, for the last 32 years (since 1984) Harvard’s administration has felt that final clubs are a negative influence on Harvard’s campus. Dean Khurana and President Faust are finally trying to correct the situation. As each of you seem to be in disagreement with the Administration’s goal, please explain what positive influences final clubs have for you, your child and the social atmosphere at Harvard. (Or, maybe you just disagree with my characterization of Harvard being run by an old boys network for the purpose and pleasure of Harvard men. IMHO If you read the first link in post #1, that seem to be the underlying message from the report. So, why do each of you seem to not want them to go away? )
Does this include fraternities?
@gibby I disagree with your characterization of Harvard being run by an old boys network. I have met a lot of the kids there and their parents. Frankly there is a wide diversity of students and parents. I have seen no evidence over the last few years to support your theory. If anything I have seen the opposite. As to the final clubs they are not a big item in regards to campus life. Usually your analysis is right to the point. It seems to be far away from what is going on in regards to this issue. I find that baffling all in itself.
Is Gibby the only parent of a daughter at Harvard on this thread so far? Sons and their parents may be blind to the issue (male privilege, one could call it).
Well, I’m a girl and current freshman, but since I don’t party much maybe my perspective isn’t the greatest either. 
For me it’s not about whether final clubs are good or not. I personally don’t like final clubs/frats. But if the final clubs are not officially affiliated with the college, then I don’t think it’s fair to tell students if they can or can’t join them. And while it’s still just a proposal, I think it’s only fair that if they expel students who join all-male final clubs then they need to do the same for students who join all-female final clubs. Have the gender inclusion be required for ALL the final clubs. I know that their reasons for cracking down on the male final clubs are for the issues of sexism and sexual assault not found in the women final clubs (or at least not to the same degree) but I think that’s only fair.
It’s odd because I don’t even like final clubs or frats or partying culture in general. But final clubs haven’t personally affected me one way or another, positively OR negatively, because like I said: no one cares if you aren’t a part of it! I watched The Social Network the other day and almost started laughing at Mark Zuckerberg’s final club drama because imo it’s only one very small portion of the campus social life.
Like I mentioned, this may just be my perception but they really haven’t played a huge role in the overall campus life for me or anyone I know. Even my friends who party don’t pay much attention to them, they just go to the parties by different clubs. I think Harvard has been working hard to change its image and I think it’s been working because it really does not feel like an “old boys network” – not when there are so many other social options.
I do commend the task force for working toward solutions and carefully considering all of this stuff! It’s reassuring to know that they’re working on preventing sexual assault, even if I don’t necessarily agree with everything they’ve come up with.
Our daughter is a Sophomore and has not been influenced in any way by the presence of Final clubs. She has one male block mate in one and one female block mate in one.
There are fraternities and sororities and gender specific clubs. There is the uber selective Hasty Pudding.
Our daughter is in a Sorority ( Delta Gamma) her roommate is in the all woman Seneca club.
We have not witnessed an oppressive culture in regard to male domination. She has not been denied any type of experience as a result of the existence of Final clubs.
While she and we as a family don’t care for activities or behavior that is exclusive as it relates to gender or influence, she has not been adversely affected.
Expulsion for being a member seems really extreme. Expulsion for offensive acts are another matter.
Re: The report to which you refer. This is derived from another report that found 15% of sexual assaults at Harvard happen at final clubs… But 70% happen in Harvard HOUSES! If sexual assault is the primary measure of oppression against women, of a male-dominated culture run for the pleasure of men, then it is the HOUSES that are the primary culprits!!! BAN THE HOUSES!! Expel all the students who choose to live in the evil HOUSES!! Make all the students live in the streets of Cambridge! ! Do we have any other bright ideas?
The final clubs provide copious amounts of free booze to underage students, many whom are inexperienced freshmen women. The clubs are non-residential so the inebriated students and their romantic interests return to the bedrooms in the Houses. If the final clubs housed all the members, rather than just a few club officers, the statistics would be much different.
@GreatKid If your DD does not enjoy socializing at the final clubs, great. However, many young women like the high proportion of athletes and campus leaders at the clubs, rather than the usual nerdy Harvard types who only frequent the few House events/dances. Also, could it be possible that your DD does not share all the details of her social life?
The sororities (at least Theta and Kappa) regularly have mixers with individual FCs.
Most nights, the clubs’ “doormen” make sure there are 10-20 females to every male member which skews the social balance. Clubs also employ buses to pick up females from Wellesley and other nearby colleges (Harvard women not allowed on those nights). Their intentions are pretty much summed up in their slang for the vehicles: **** trucks.
I’ve noticed that Harvard and other elite schools, allegedly the bastions of liberalism, Appear to have the most sexist and racist symbols and organizations of all colleges.