Harvard v. Robertson at Duke

College Search & Selection
21

@Dustyfeathers:

“While I appreciate your POV @PurpleTitan there’s more to school that stats that you cite. The environment for one, as I’ve pointed out. And the style and panache, which shouldn’t be taken lightly. More, there’s fit to personality.”

That’s all very true, and fit matters in selecting a school, but I don’t think it serves anyone well to think that there’s some magical fairy dust that propels those who attend Columbia (or even Harvard) more than those who attend Duke.

"Duke is a wonderful school, and competent, but the magic and opportunity in so many fields, plus the shear experience of being exposed to so many opportunities, it just can’t compare, IMHO. "

Oh, nevermind, you do believe in magical fairy dust after all.

OK, so answer me this: Of what worth is all that magic and opportunity at Columbia and if the “shear (sic) experience of being exposed to so many opportunities” doesn’t compare at Duke, then why are there more high-achieving Duke grads than there are high-achieving Columbia grads? How are Duke grads getting ahead with the puny amount of opportunities that they have?

“Duke is a competent school . . .and does not compare”.

Indeed, so competent that by literally every metric you may care to pull up (other than, perhaps, magical fairy dust), Duke is solidly in the middle of the Ivies (at least has some Ivies below it). And if you are not comparing by metrics that may be found, then by what are you comparing by? Magical fairy dust?

The snobbery just astounds.

22

@Dustyfeathers - in post#7 the OP said they would have to take $80K in loans to attend H or C. Hence the recommendation not to go into debt for H.

23

<<<<
Oh sorry, that’s a good point. I would graduate having taken 20K in loans every year, or around 80K in debt.
<<<

No, do not do this!!!

@skieurope <<<neither will="" match="" merit="" awards,="" and="" in="" fact="" are="" prohibited="" by="" ivy="" league="" rules="" from="" doing="" so.="">>>

Is this student an athlete? If not, then what Ivy League rules would apply?

If he is an athlete, then I overlooked that.

24

Agree with other posters arguments against incurring debt. The Robertson is an incredible opportunity offering mentoring, research, and summer work opportunities near unparalleled. Columbia should be taken off the table. The “magic” that even today comes with a Harvard pedigree could argue in its favor, but, again, not my recommendation.

25

$80,000 in undergraduate debt is way to much! Duke is an outstanding school, to be able to go for free is a tremendous opportunity.
I think it would be very ill advised to pass that up.

26

The Robertson Scholars program offers a far better college experience than you well get as just another student at Harvard or Columbia. And that is even before we get to the unreasonable debt load you are contemplating. This is a no-brainer.

(A Harvard degree is not magic. I feel sorry for the poster who thinks otherwise. Furthermore, Robertson Scholar at Duke on your resume will carry the same, if not more, cachet.)

Go have an amazing four years in NC!

27

No university is worth going $80k in debt over. Besides, Duke is an awesome university, certainly on par with Columbia. I would go with Duke, unless Columbia or Harvard revise their package substantially, in which case you can then go for fit rather than reason. Even then, many choose Duke over Columbia, and rightly so as the two are peer institutions, and many 18-22 year olds find Duke more appealing.

Also, Durham is a much improved city. I remember first visiting it back in 1992, when I was in the process of selecting a university from the ones that had admitted me. At the time, I must admit it was not a very appealing place. However, I visited it last year, and I have to say I was impressed, not just with the progress and how it stands today relative to 20 years ago, but even in absolute terms. As a foodie, I have sampled two of the best restaurants in the country within a 20 minute drive of Duke’s campus…and that’s saying a lot because when it comes to food, I have stratospheric expectations and standards. :wink:

28

It’s worth summarizing that not a single person here recommends going into $80K of debt.

The rest is about what the OP wants to do beyond that and how hard he/she wants to push to achieve attending his/her dream school without accruing that much debt.

29

Ivy League conference rules stipulate that all students at an institution must be offered the same need-based financial aid package. For example, an athlete cannot be give a better financial aid package sweetened with merit aid. And, likewise, a non-athlete cannot be given a better financial aid package that includes merit aid. All students must be treated equally.

30

Can a student at H borrow $20K a year? Is not that requiring both federal and private loans, and the latter would need the endorsement of the parents? Just asking.

31

The student can get the Federal direct loans, with the $5500 limit freshman and soph year. It totes up a bit for junior and senior year. Parents would have to take out the balance, unless they dont qualify for the PLUS. If so, the student can borrow a bit more from the Stafford system (but still not enough to meet the gap here). But, just don’t, OP. Go to Duke.

32

Go to Duke and save the money. You will be exposed to tons of unique opportunities via your scholarship. 80K in undergrad debt should not be taken lightly. Beyond the money, look for fit - not just school name/ranking because all of them are in the top tier. Where do you really fit in, what student body/culture appeals to you more. Would you rather be in a big city or a small town? Do you like cold weather? The student body in Columbia is more individualistic vs. Duke has a more integrated culture (basketball, tenting, beach vacation post finals, etc). Harvard definitely has the name, but really think fit. Like others have said, you could use the 80K in grad school or a car or trips :).

33

I agree with many others here, go to Duke. Why?

At Duke you will be a big fish in a big pond. You will have funding to do amazing things during your summers instead of working to retire debt. You will get to experience a second campus, UNC-Chapel Hill, for a semester.

As a Robertson scholar you probably will have greater access to research opportunities and mentorship from professors than you would as a regular student at Harvard or Columbia.

Boston and NY are wonderful cities - if you have money. If you are on a tight budget, they are considerably less fun.

Round about January-February, you might appreciate the weather at Duke.

Question `- do the financial aid packages you have from Harvard/Columbia consist entirely of grant aid or do they include work study and/or Federal Student Loan? Is 80K of debt really 80K, or is it more than that? Remember to include projected tuition and R&B increases. That 80K might be closer to 90K by the time you graduate.

80K is a lot of money. Run it through a debt calculator and see how many years it would take to pay off and what the monthly rate of pay would be. Then think about how that would affect your career choices and lifestyle.

Finally, congrats! Clearly you have worked hard and it has paid off!

34

Have you reached out to the Robertsons you met at finalist weekend? I know that they are happy to talk to you about what they love about the program. It isn’t just about the money. I get it. The name Harvard can be very compelling. But there are a lot of benefits that the Robertson will provide that you may not even be considering. And owing $80 grand is going to mean being college poor for longer than 4 years. I can’t even imagine staring that down as a 22 year old. No thanks. But I wish you the best.

35

I agree than if the extra money was not an issue and you family could easily afford it without straining their budget or jeopardizing other future opportunities (grad school etc) then Harvard or Columbia would make sense. But since you will have to take on considerable debt it is not worth it. Besides, Duke is an great school.

36

^ Actually, even if money was not a factor, I’d take Duke with the Robertson over Columbia and it would be a tough call vs. Harvard.

With the massive amount of money Duke is giving you along with the perks of the Robertson, this is a no-brainer decision, IMO, and only those who believe in magic fairy dust would think otherwise.

37

@gibby >>>Ivy League conference rules stipulate that all students at an institution must be offered the same need-based financial aid package. For example, an athlete cannot be give a better financial aid package sweetened with merit aid. And, likewise, a non-athlete cannot be given a better financial aid package that includes merit aid. All students must be treated equally.


[QUOTE=""]

[/QUOTE]

And, likewise? Huh? You think the Conference is looking at non-athletes’ aid pkgs?

And either way, the ivys give need based aid based on their own judgement. There is always wiggle room.

I don’t believe that there is a “likewise”…otherwise certain ivys would not be telling their admits that if they got a better pkg from another ivy, they would match it (meaning that they’d give more to that student than their OTHER students)

38

@mom2collegekids: Sorry, but you are dead wrong. By ivy league rules, all member schools must only give need-based aid – however each ivy league school is allowed to calculate need based upon on their own institutional formula, but they must give the same need-based aid (and nothing more) to all students. That’s why Harvard, Yale or Princeton with larger endowments can beat a need-based package offered by Cornell, Columbus, Brown, Dartmouth or UPenn. But NONE of the ivy league schools offer merit aid. For example:

Harvard: https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/types-aid

Yale: http://finaid.yale.edu/award-letter/financial-aid-terminology/merit-based-scholarships

**Princeton: https://admission.princeton.edu/cost-aid/how-princetons-aid-program-works

Columbia: https://cc-seas.financialaid.columbia.edu/eligibility/myths

Cornell: http://finaid.cornell.edu/types-aid/grants-and-scholarships

Brown: https://www.brown.edu/admission/undergraduate/does-brown-offer-merit-scholarships-athletic-scholarships

Dartmouth: http://admissions.dartmouth.edu/financial-aid/apply-aid/prospective-transfer-students/types-financial-aid/grants-scholarships

UPenn: http://www.sfs.upenn.edu/paying/paying-grants-scholarships.htm

39

If money really, really isn’t a problem, I would say go to Harvard or CU. Besides all of the prestige and opportunities and connections and finances, remember that college is somewhere you will be for the next 4 years. So you better like where you go. Idk how much more you like H or CU, but it’s clear you like them more than Duke. Maybe try to get more money out of one of the Ivies, but if you like H or CU more than Duke, then you should go to either H or CU. It’s not like you’re going to be settling or anything either. You know that wherever you go, you will be successful if you put in the work. That being said I would only seriously consider Duke if you’re majoring in a science bc they’re incredible at them, but even then H and CU have great science programs as well.

tl;dr: Harvard or CU cause it seems like you’d be happier there

40

Thank you all so much!! As an update, Harvard came back with enough financial aid that I would NOT need to take out any loans. Does this change any of your opinions on my situation? After visiting the three, I do feel that H is the best fit for me, but I still question whether it’s worth giving up the scholarship.