@Bobby96
Yes, because we all know that the point of college is to meet good looking people and to watch basketball games.
@Bobby96 However, if you’d like to expand on why you think the college experience at Harvard is “pretty lame,” that might actually be useful!
To be a little less flippant, though: @Bobby96 is probably correct that if you’re a top student at UNC you’ll probably be able to interview for many of the same jobs as a Harvard grad.
However, what if you’re NOT a top a student at UNC? What if you end up doing just OK?
Doing “just OK” at Harvard, though, is enough to get you many interviews.
And, @Bobby96, if UNC is so much better, you can always transfer, you know…
You know, if those Harvard men are women are too ugly for you.
As a Harvard college alum, I’m going to agree with Greg’s advice. Sure, UNC is a fine school. And yes, if you’re talented enough and work hard enough, the school you graduate from won’t matter.
But if you’re ever in a situation in which you need to get your foot in the door (applying for VC funding, getting a job), Harvard will get you much further than UNC. My family didn’t qualify for aid either, but the effect of the name on the rest of my life was well worth the money. And as Greg said, one can’t put a price on the experience of spending 4 years in the environment and on the contacts you’ll make there.
Only you know your circumstances and what your parents can afford. But a new car depreciates by 10% the moment you drive it off the lot. A trip to Europe is great, but in a few weeks, you’re back home. But as mentioned above,the Harvard name keeps on reaping dividends long after you’ve left the College.
There’s been enough mentioned here so no need to repeat. My advice: go to Harvard if your family can afford it, and take out max loans is that’s what it takes.
UNC is a great school, but Harvard is Harvard, period. No one outside of the USA has heard of UNC; everyone in the world sees Harvard as the best school on the planet. A “B” average from Harvard beats an “A” average at other places. Grad schools want Harvard grads; so do government and big business.
@84stag, I agree that Harvard is the better option (having gone there, and gone elsewhere), but going to Harvard will not necessarily result in a better grad school option than going to UNC will, for the OP who is clearly very sharp. In general, Harvard has a much better grad school placement rate than UNC does, but the OP could be well-served by going where the GPA may be higher (i.e., UNC) if the OP aims to get in a grad school program in which GPA is weighted heavily for admissions.
There is always time to pay debt later. Being accepted to Harvard is a once in a life time oppertunity. Think of Harvard as an investment!! The 250K is a small price to pay for the doors it may open in the future.
Im Biased here because I graduated from Harvard '82. I did later get a JD/MBA from Stanford.
I now have a daughter who has being recruited (with an athletic scholarship) at Stanford and Duke. She was also being recruited for Harvard, and I urged her to go to Harvard (even though we had to pay full tuition). Eventually, she decided to do so. She is currently a sophomore and loves Harvard, and does not regret her decision one bit.
I am copying the following from another thread which I wrote:
I worked in San Francisco, New York, London and Shanghai (where I currently live.) If you want to work or live abroad, without a doubt, a Harvard degree is the most prestigious degree money can buy. Why? Because all the well-connected and affluent sons and daughters of foreigners aspire to go to Harvard. Everything else is second rate. The Harvard connection is invaluable. I have become a member of the Harvard club of various locations, and the connections (friends and business partners) I have made are invaluable. Everyone is so happy and proud to have attended, they are more willing to bond with you. However, this only applies to your UNDERGRAD degree. I have two degrees from Stanford but I am not considered a Stanford man, I simply “studied there before.” Your undergrad degree is your identity.
You can not go to UNC and then go to grad school at Harvard and pretend that is the same as getting a BA there. It is completely different. I agree with the posters above. A top student at UNC will get any job interview and frankly, barring serious social problems, will get ANY finance job. But, at Harvard, a middling student will get an interview at any top firm. Any Harvard student with above a 3.2 GPA will get an interview based on the brand name alone. Outside of the US, the Harvard name alone (even with a totally unrelated major and a terrible GPA) will get you an interview.
My wife is Chinese and I have lived there for years now. The BRIC countries, in which China is a part of, are the next superpowers of the world. Guess what? Chinese political leaders kids are all educated at Harvard undergrad. Their business leaders kids are Harvard undergrads. The respect one gets from going to Harvard is unparalleled. With a Harvard degree, you can pursue a high paying job and pay off your student loans in 2-3 years.
It is not about how much money you make 5 years from now, or 10 years from now. Its 20 years- 30 years down the line. Harvard is the best window of opportunity, and it is the best safety net that money can buy. I hope you attend.
Harvard all the way.
That’s an absurd statement for anyone to make. Not even Harvard is worth mortgaging your house for.
@HardChoices22- are you using this phrase “worth mortgaging your house over” figuratively? If your parents cannot pay for a good portion of Harvard’s cost out of savings and income, something went really wrong with your financial aid application. Harvard has the best finaid out there for upper middle class families.
UNC for free is a great deal. But there are a lot of great deals out there, I’m not sure I’d be looking at this in terms of ROI. Where do you actually want to go and will your parents pay for it?
Thank you, @jwong945
I agree completely.
Hey everyone! Just wanted to say I’m floored by the amount of advice I have received. I am so, so, so thankful to have gotten all these different perspectives. They will definitely play a part in my decision.
I’ll be updating the thread more frequently now as I’m back from traveling out of town, but to give a bit of background to those of you have asked ~
My parents qualify for little or no financial aid. There would be no need to mortgage any houses, but due to my parents being immigrants and starting in the American workforce very, very late we really do not have any assets or a college fund or anything of that sort. So it would put significant financial stress on my parents, including their prospects at retirement.
I am undecided about my major and my future career path. I still do not know whether I see grad school as something I will leap into right away or not either. For some reference, I am strongly interested in the social sciences and humanities, but for careers I would consider something along the lines of either law, politics, government, economics, business, finance, or maybe something else. I know that doesn’t help much =/
I LOVE talking, public speaking, and being a leader. I’m very passionate about change, representation, and making a difference. In addition to trying my hardest academically at either institution, I know something I would really look into would be a role in student organizations, government, and other leadership positions. I consider myself to be a highly motivated person, and while I do not have life figured out yet in the slightest, I am totally aiming for some type of career in which I will have a leadership position, and in which there will be a social atmosphere as well.
As a segue from that, I think that being social is very important for me as well. Regardless of the school, I want to network well with students, faculty, and alumni. I think being social has in part played a role in getting me to where I am today, and I have no idea which school would be better for networking, and of course, having great lifelong friends/relationships! So one of my considerations is also whether the environment would be cutthroat or friendly. I also do not know whether one of these schools would be more likely to limit my involvement than the other.
I know UNC would give me a lot more AP credit, and I would be able to pick up a major in both the college and the business school. Harvard however, has been a lifelong dream for me and seems like an absolutely perfect learning environment.
Thank you guys SOOOO much for all the feedback, at this point, with the hardest decision of my life looming ahead, it means the world to me. I appreciate it!
I know I’ll get a lot of people stirred up with my comment, but I feel like I’m in the catbird seat. I run a retained search firm (look up the term - it’s nothing like an employment agency or a contingency search firm), which means I recruit executives, usually very senior ones, for companies and non-profits. Clients usually give me ridiculously narrow specifications - they usually want someone who is working for a direct competitor .I’m normally choosing/evaluating candidates who are 25 years past their college years or more.
Past track record is the most important criterion when a company hires an executive. School brand name is usually not a major one.
Except …
I’ve had clients make exceptions, and allow me to present to them and then have them hire candidates from the hyper-elite schools who are out of spec - people who haven’t worked in the right industry. These are people who I would have passed over if they had gone to Northeast Nowhere State. There is a cache that follows people who go to elite schools - an indication (possibly incorrect) that this person can figure it out if they don’t know it. Harvard happens to be THE brand name school. The name brand alone can be a big help.
By the way, I’m a Princeton graduate, and a solo operator. My school’s brand name has helped me numerous times in my business (in my business, they pay me before the work is done, so they have to trust that I’m going to do a good job for them), as well as help me get jobs in my previous careers. My last two projects would not have come to me without the brand name, and the fees for those two projects surpass what I paid for college, inflation adjusted (in fact, they come close to paying for four years at Harvard now).
I’m not telling you what to do, or what I would do if I were your parent. North Carolina is a great school in a great location, and everyone who goes there loves it. $250,000 is a ridiculous amount of money. The Harvard name may help you a great deal if you go there, or perhaps not at all.
PS: This is only the hardest decision of your young life (and it probably isn’t truly the hardest decision of your life thus far if you take a good look at your life). The real hard decisions, and the real challenges will come later. Keep it in perspective, and don’t drive yourself nuts in the next few weeks. You have a great future.
I know that UNC is not Rutgers, but I found this article to be somewhat relevant to the discussion:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-300-emails-led-to-a-summer-job-on-wall-street-1427932335
@ormdad @boondocks, Interesting article/comments. Having worked in finance, I agree. Going to Harvard and a top tier ivy opens doors more than any other school-- UNC scholarship included. To be honest, wall street is sort of a wishy washy field where its actually not that hard-- you just have to be social and work hard. People are also obsessed with brand names, so Harvard/ Ivy is essential. But, if you want to start your own business, work in a different sector etc. Harvard will help, but not as much as it will on wall street.
@jwong945, I agree with you that Harvard is the choice, but “Harvard/Ivy is essential” for Wall Street? And where you got your BA matters more than graduate school? My world (formerly on Wall Street, and now in a related field) must be pretty different.
Thank you all so much for the feedback, especially how the degree will benefit me in the future! I must also ask, however, how cutthroat the environment is. Do Harvard students have a lot of great social experiences/fun? I feel like this is almost as important, as your personality and indeed future network are oftentimes heavily impacted by this! That question also applies to UNC I suppose.
“Cutthroat” is not an adjective I’d use to describe Harvard. My sense from my sons is that there’s much more collaboration. My sense is that people don’t compete so much with each other as with themselves. I’ve heard my sons complain that they didn’t do as well on a test/paper/class as they’d hoped, but it isn’t “I didn’t beat the other guy,” but rather, “I could have done better than I did.”
Students at Harvard often have specific self-defined goals. Those goals are often set without regard to what everyone else is doing. Those goals aren’t measured from person to person by a standard metric. I guess part of it is that there are a lot of resources to go around - grades, money, opportunities, jobs, whatever. Everyone can get a good grade. Everyone can get a grant for their project. There’s always a faculty member available for assistance. So, getting money for a research project doesn’t mean someone else won’t get it. If you miss out on one job or internship or other opportunity, another will come along.
I think the atmosphere of achievement spurs students to compete with each other in a way. If you see your roommate doing great things, you might want to keep up with him, or at least, not fall too far behind. But it isn’t a zero sum game.
In terms of social life, my sons seem to have an active one. They’ve made lots of friends and acquaintances. They’re aware of the need to make life-long connections, to build their networks. But at least for my sons, these relationships are often driven by important interests in their lives - by the fields that they study, by the extracurriculars in which they participate. It’s not just a bunch of guys or gals who drink together on a Saturday night, or who go to football games together. Social life may revolve around a study group for a particular class, or around one’s academic department. In my older son’s case, he writes for the Crimson, and there is a social aspect to that. He often writes about art, theater, music, etc., and thus he connects with folks in the arts and theater community. He spent a year trying engineering, so he has masses of friends in physics and other hard sciences. My younger son is starting to DJ at the radio station - so he is involved with that circle, And there’s overlap. My older son’s girlfriend is with the radio station, so she’s sort of mentored my younger son a little bit. They’re all involved with the Catholic community and St. Paul’s.
Do they have fun? I don’t know. I think they’re too busy living their lives to address the question.