@gibby, I suspect that the language is a little more opaque as income level increases because it’s more likely that circumstances become more convoluted, and harder to apply these one-size-fits-all rules to quickly estimate aid. I suspect that many folks who earn in the range of $200K+ 1) have significant assets/investments outside of retirement savings 2) have significant home equity and/or 3) own their own business. All three conditions can have dramatic effects on the amount of financial aid received. From the perspective of the office of financial aid, the presence of these complicating factors might be considered the “normal” case of families at that income level, and thus, they treat those still getting aid as the “exception.” But considering that those “several hundred families” represent a significant percentage of families at Harvard, that’s a pretty common “exception.”
So, it is entirely possible that that NPC is fairly accurate, and that based strictly on income, financial aid extends beyond $200K, but at the same time, other factors come into play that reduce financial aid, or even eliminate it, before the income threshold is reached. I remember our older son’s first year, Harvard’s award seemed a little low. They had counted a laughable value for my small business, expecting me to liquidate just enough of it to pay that extra amount of tuition. I pointed out 1) you generally can’t sell of pieces of small businesses like that, 2) the imputed value was hilariously high, and I would be happy to entertain an offer to sell my business to the office of financial aid at that level and, 3) I actually derive my income from that business - and liquidating it would allow me to pay more tuition - once - and then they could give 100% financial aid thereafter as I would have liquidated my only income source for the future. They relented.
Not to get too off-topic, but I don’t really get the home equity piece. I can’t even get a Home Equity Line of Credit from my bank until my equity = 25% of my house’s appraised value, but somehow I’m supposed to be able to tap into that for college?
Thank you soooo much to everyone’s feedback in this thread - it was an immense help in considering my options. This is out of the blue, but I actually ended up choosing another option - the Jefferson scholarship at UVA (similar to UNC, it was a full ride).
Hopefully this thread can continue to be a resource to those making tough decisions like this one!
Reopening old thread!
I just wanted to say that I totally disagree with the mentality of some people on CC. If I had to choose between a state school full ride and MIT or Harvard or Yale etc, i would choose one of the more prestigious schools in a heart beat, without consideration of the financial aspect. I know that 250 K is a lot of money, but if you are not offered financial aid, you can pay for the school (I know it might be very difficult, but you can). I believe that spending 250 K on a top university is ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS worth it. Why? Because education is the best investment. If you have the money in a bank or in a house or invested somewhere else, somebody might eventually take it away from you. If you have invested it on your education NOBODY can take it away! Americans should understand that they have the BEST universities in the world. When one is choosing to go to U Penn or Penn State, he or she is choosing whether to attend the #20 or #300 university in the world, not the #1 or #2 University in Pennsylvania. Americans should understand that with a degree from MIT in France, one may be a king, but with a degree from UVA in France, nobody will even care. Money in the bank is nothing more than a number, a number that may change, but money invested on an education is something that will last a lifetime!
The opinions here are going to be representative of extremes. I understand what this poster has said and I don’t disagree. Everyone comes from their own place financially and from their particular values.
We are full pay at Harvard. It isn’t easy but we are handling it and our daughter is having an experience there that is worth every penny to us.
We would have sold our home to have given her this opportunity if we had to, we are much more interested in her opportunities than our need for material things.
Things that many people perceive as sacrifices don’t even register to me. Not driving a luxury car? Who cares! Not going on expensive vacations? Who cares!
Not going to expensive restaurants regularly? Who cares!
Giving the best possible opportunities to your kid? I care!!
I have been in conversations with Harvard parents who are complaining about the lack of financial aid and they are driving very expensive luxury cars. Ditch the Mercedes buy a reliable car for cash and use that $6000 to $10,000 a year for better household cash flow.
Borderline rant, sorry!
I think the issue that alot of people in the 200-400k range that live in most expensive expensive parts of the country is that Harvard’s sticker price is RIDICULOUS for a school that has billions in endowment. I think $65k+ is a ridiculous price for any college. That said, I would pay it for Harvard or Yale because of the long term opportunities Its name will give.
“Harvard’s sticker price is RIDICULOUS for a school that has billions in endowment.”
Why? Why should those charitable funds be used to further subsidize the educations of people making $200-400k per year? As it is, the cost of attendance only covers a portion of each student’s share of the college’s operating expenses.
@Hanna, I agree with you completely. Plus it’s a good business decision by Harvard to list a sticker price as it does, since there are plenty of people willing to pay it for a Harvard degree. It would make no sense to give away something as valuable as that to people who could pay for it.
i think there is enough compassion to go around here.
Whether it is for the first generation student who came from very challenging circumstances and is attending at no cost to their families.
Or, the full pay family where it is far from easy to provide this opportunity for their child.
I have an appreciation and sensitivity for each of these scenarios.
What I do tire of are the I am going or I went for free or greatly reduced expense crowd who harbor animosity toward anyone who doesn’t or didn’t come from similar circumstances as themselves.
I also tire of the “I went to such-and-such a school that isn’t in the Top 20/50/100 and so I’m morally superior than people who went to Harvard/Yale/Princeton/etc.”
@MITer2020 There is no such thing as always and each school and major has to be considered. NPC’s give us a parent contribution around $25k for Princeton and Harvard but $40k for U Penn and Columbia. I believe Stanford was similar but haven’t run it recently. There is a considerable difference in those figures and you have to calculate opportunity costs. For us, $25k is doable maybe not to cash flow but to come close with a ultraconservative lifestyle while paying for college. $40k would be minimum $60k and probably $80k in debt with grad school still to go. We live in a region with higher cost of living. That is not considered in net income calculations
If my daughter wants to go to Wharton and work on Wall Street. $40k for undergrad is worth it. If she wants to go to Ivy Law down the road, we have to calculate the costs now both on opportunity to be accepted from various schools and paying for grad school. If she just wants a good education and work in career field with modest incomes, $40k isn’t worth it if you have a free ride to a state school with a good honors program (highly likely if accepted to Ivy)
Or those who accuse you of being preoccupied with or chasing prestige.
As a point of clarification I also don’t care for those who are in a better financial position holding animosity toward families or students who are not. Having met many kids at Harvard that come from modest or difficult economic circumstances, I whole heartedly support what Harvard does to have it be affordable for these kids to attend.
For the most part these kids are amazing and add immeasurably to the school.
Mine was a full pay family where paying for Harvard was far from easy. “Compassion,” to me, doesn’t seem to be the right word to use toward those of us who were offered a rare opportunity thousands of other families would kill for and who made the free decision to pay the price charged for that life-changing privilege.
Unless you’re talking about compassion in the Buddhist sense, extended toward all living beings, we don’t need compassion. Neither do lottery winners, movie stars, or CEOs, regardless of whatever down sides those lucky folks may face.
Any full-pay parent whose kid gets into Harvard and doesn’t like it that others pay much less has a quick solution: just give most of your net worth to a soup kitchen. Boom, you’re in the same boat with the fin aid folks! Parents never seem to take advantage of this solution, which suggests to me that having more money always beats having less, even if you miss out on some freebies.
Did you read post number 68 here? Where I said it was worth every penny, where we would have sold our home to have provided this opportunity to our daughter.
I am not complaining and I understand how fortunate we are and I am very thankful.
And, I have compassion for anyone and everyone who struggles in some manner when they are attempting to do something good and meaningful for themselves or their families. To me this applies whether someone is poor or rich.
None of us know what someone (or a family) has dealt with or is dealing with in their efforts to make the money available to pay for their child’s education.
I’m one of those people who think of Harvard as America’s best university. My son is a high school junior who has lots of opportunities to attend some very good schools for free. I’ve got some really weird financial things going on that might make him eligible for financial aid for a year or two, but probably not four. I’ve always said my goal was for him to attend college for free.
BUT, my wife’s favorite student attended Yale just over 15 years ago. She had a terrible math score on the SAT, but we are from a poor state that sends few people to the Ivies. Anyway, the girl has led a charmed life. I enjoy seeing her on television. The combination of her brains, great personality, and the people she met at Yale just clicked. It would be the same for Harvard, too; but not everybody is going to have the same kind of luck.
I wouldn’t be poking around on this page if I wasn’t trying to answer the same questions other people are!