<p>There is an interesting exchange taking place over at the Harvard site. The topic is the quality of Harvard's undergraduate program. A Harvard Dean left the school citing a need for more undergraduate focus. Harvard boosters have reacted with name calling and insults to those voicing an opinion. What do you think?</p>
<p>Anyone see the review of the book "Privelege" in the Wall Street yesterday? S immediately ordered it up from Amazon. It is written by a fairly recent Harvard grad and purports to give "the real picture".</p>
<p>Haven't read the book yet, but it received a "starred" review from the American Library Association, which is a very rare honor. Here's their review:</p>
<p><em>Starred Review</em> Its very name a cultural weapon, Harvard arms the fortunate few it admits with such social power that they can "drop the H bomb" on overawed listeners merely by mentioning where they attend school. How this revered institution and its students acquired such daunting social power and whether they still deserve it are the questions at the heart of this incisive critique written from the Right. Douthat offers a withering indictment of Harvard's institutional culture, a culture in which the administration (and not just the president), the faculty, and the students have all drifted into self-congratulatory complacency. In the academic world Douthat describes, professors have long since repudiated traditional moral imperatives and have now distanced themselves from the gauche radicalism of the hard Left, so contenting themselves with the abundance provided by global capitalism and the moral bromides generated by parlor liberalism. Such professors provide little educational guidance to students themselves too smugly impressed with their own achievement in winning admission to the school to worry much about intellectual labors not requisite for careers of affluence and prominence. Douthat recognizes that his own years at Harvard permitted him the luxury of stimulating out-of-class discussions with brilliant fellow students, but those moments of inspiration came in spite of the cozy creed of careerist success that has established itself as the only orthodoxy at the nation's premier university. Bryce Christensen
Copyright © American Library Association. All rights reserved</p>
<p>OOPS- sorry for the typo. "Privilege" is the correct title.</p>
<p>MomofWildChild, Interesting you mentioned that writing. I actually quoted it in the thread mentioned above. Here is the authors view in the Atlantic Monthly.
It paints a rather ugly picture.</p>
<p>Sample:</p>
<p>The Truth About Harvard </p>
<p>It may be hard to get into Harvard, but it's easy to get out without learning much of enduring value at all. A recent graduate's report
by Ross Douthat </p>
<p>..... </p>
<p>At the beginning of every term Harvard students enjoy a one-week "shopping period," during which they can sample as many courses as they like and thusor so the theory goesconcoct the most appropriate schedule for their semesters. There is a boisterous quality to this stretch, a sense of intellectual possibility, as people pop in and out of lecture halls, grabbing syllabi and listening for twenty minutes or so before darting away to other classes. </p>
<p>The enthusiasm evaporates quickly once the shopping period ends. Empty seats in the various halls and auditoriums multiply as the semester rattles along, until rooms that were full for the opening lecture resemble the stadium of a losing baseball team during a meaningless late-August game. There are pockets of diehards in the front rows, avidly taking notes, and scattered observers elsewherestudents who overcame the urge to hit the snooze button and hauled themselves to class, only to realize that they've missed so many lectures and fallen so far behind that taking notes is a futile exercise. Better to wait for the semester's end, when they can take exhaustive notes at the review sessions that are always helpfully providedor simply go to the course's Web site, where the professor has uploaded his lecture notes, understanding all too well the character and study habits of his seldom-glimpsed students.</p>
<p>Whatever is going on, I hope the other Ivies take note and address this issue in their own homes.</p>
<p>I find it interesting that how people twist the word in order to tarnish the image of Harvard. People who can not get admission into the gold standard Univerity, try to put it down as if they just did not like the university. I bet you that most of the brown kid (not all) who including ED to brown, will jump to Harvard if they are offered admission. How many univerity except Yale, princeton and Standford and MIT can go head to head with Harvrad. Not many. Thus in order to attract many bright kids, many univerities are offereing fin aid to middle class kids. </p>
<p>I find it interesting that people hate harvard so much that they talk about it all the time.</p>
<p>Chinaman, my grandmother -who lives in a flat country- likes to say, "Tall trees catch the most wind." </p>
<p>Interesting but not surprising move by Brown. The school has always been an expert at marketing itself by exploiting the temporary lapses created by its competition. In climbing out of the Ivy cellar, they played the admission/reject and EA/ED alignment games better than any other Ivy.</p>
<p>Brown has realized a long time ago that substance is not as critical as its perception.</p>
<p>Xiggi:</p>
<p>This is postive development for Brown. IF I was the president of a University in the boondocks, i will try to pull same trick. </p>
<p>Xiggi one day I would love to meet you as you are wiser beyond your age : "Brown has realized a long time ago that substance is not as critical as its perception." But not maybe in few years.
This is the way to make headline and attract attention. Bravo to Brown.</p>
<p>My older sister worked in the undergraduate Dean of Students office at Harvard 25 years ago while her husband attended Harvard Law. After working there for several years she decided that no child of hers would ever attend there because she found the needs of the undergrads to be pretty much disregarded. She consistently saw resources and energy going into the grad schools and professional school, with little left over for undergrads. She is not a person who had a preformed opinion or a bone to pick, just her own observations. I thought things may have changed over the years, but I am not sure it is the case. Her sons ended up attending Williams and Reed.</p>
<p>mootmom: thanks for the correction</p>
<p>emerladkity I did not say about brown is a boondock univerity. I just statted that an unkown univerity can score big, if it I can hire someone prominent. If a school like boondock can attract 10 intel finalist, it will be in news all over America and we all will be talking. </p>
<p>let me say brown is trying to compete so whom they will hit, would they go after boondock university or Harvrad? think</p>
<p>Thanks for posting that review Mini. </p>
<p>Try this: take out "H" and substitute another expensive, elite university name (or private secondary school name) and you have a too clear picture of the underbelly of the American success/merit story.</p>
<p>Beautifully articulated. Thanks again.</p>
<p>
[quote]
People who can not get admission into the gold standard Univerity, try to put it down as if they just did not like the university. I bet you that most of the brown kid (not all) who including ED to brown, will jump to Harvard if they are offered admission. How many univerity except Yale, princeton and Standford and MIT can go head to head with Harvrad. Not many.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
IF I was the president of a University in the boondocks, i will try to pull same trick.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>We went to visit Harvard and after visiting Daughter found that she was not even remotely interested in attending and all of the marketing materials that came to our house from Harvard could not sway her. Sorry to say she did not jump at the opportunity to attend Harvard.</p>
<p>She is happy as a clam at a school which you would also call being in the boondicks but's whose mission is and has always been focused on Undergraduates- Dartmouth, whose tied with Princeton (with a score of 387 out of 396) on Princeton Review ACTUAL rankings, an addition of their own scores for selectivity, academic quality, campus life, and scholarships/financial aid. Students are consistently ranked as being the Happies at the Ivies (followed by Brown and Princeton) and have the best quality of life (none of the others are even in the ranking)</p>
<p>Sybie Read my line "most of the brown kid". My kid will choose Wharton over HY. And now $$$$$ in fin aid is not an issue. </p>
<p>"Harvard is a not such a good school for undergrad. " I am attacking this statement. I am not saying that other elite school are bad schools. My point is all these elite schol are trying to compete with Hravrd and reaplcae it with number one spot.</p>
<p>My son was accepted to Harvard EA three years ago, but chose not to attend. Harvard is obviously an excellent school (this does not need to be said :) ) but it may not be the best fit for every student. After taking part in the Admitted Students programs at Harvard, MIT, and Stanford, my son felt that Stanford was the best choice for him, for a variety of reasons, including his academic interests and the overall atmosphere. And, to tell the truth, from the presentations made to parents at the Admitted Students program, I also did not feel that Harvard would be the ideal place for my son compared to his other choices (although the final decision was his alone). He has thrived at Stanford in many ways, and is very happy with the choice he made. Similarly, Harvard may not be the best choice for some other students who must decide between Harvard and another school that is NOT in the "HYPMS" group.<br>
The issue (at least for my son and me) was that, since the yield rate for Harvard is by far the highest in the country, accepted students tend to feel that they are doing something wrong or making a major mistake by giving up something so wonderful as the chance to attend Harvard. I was recently introduced (three years later) at a baby shower for a friend's daughter as "my friend who has a son who turned down Harvard!!!" Harvard is just a college, a very good one with many wonderful opportunities and offerings, but I cannot say that there is anything so unusual or fantastic about it, besides prestige and perhaps the caliber of the student body, which would make it the best or only choice for everyone who is or might be admitted.</p>
<p>I remember a thread some months ago where the discussion turned to students who were rejected by Harvard "never getting over it." Reading the review of "Privilege" in yesterday's WSJ reminded me of my thought then: it's the ones who get in who have trouble getting over it. (not, of course, referring to the son of my fellow Stanford parent MotherofTwo).</p>
<p>Chinaman, I understood what you wrote. Momoftwo has summed it up well - not every kid wants to go to Harvard. It's a great school but it's not for eveyone and everyone doesn't want it. I am quite sure that there are plenty of students at Brown who did nto apply to Harvard either. I think that this just adds stress to an already stressful situation as kids cannot fully enjoy their acceptances because of rhetoric that they are just settling because they did not get into harvard.</p>
<p>Or, not to be repeititious as I paraphrase sybbie, kids who cannot fully enjoy their college choice because of rhetoric that they made a foolish decision because chose not to go to Harvard.</p>