Harvard's Intellectual Vitality

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
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<p>Harvard confuses me. On the one hand, the personal accounts I hear from alums of the university have not just been negative, but concertedly negative. They all point to a lack of learning for the sake of learning, a sort of academic superficiality, an attitude that an undergraduate education is not an education, but a stepping stone to a lucrative or prestigious job.</p>

<p>First, there is an alum, a law professor who used to teach at Harvard Law and is now at another institution. He said that Harvard is, "a great place to be from, but not a great place to be." Of the students, they are Harvard men and women through and through, articulate, able to carry on a conversation, but not able to engage ideas with depth.</p>

<p>Then there is the book Privilege by Ross Douthat (now with The Atlantic). Again, Harvard was portrayed as a lily pad between high school and professional life, a place to create connections, maneuver for position, and leave higher than one entered. The attitude was best summed up in the words of an adviser (?--maybe a faculty member): "If you want to go into investment banking, comparative literature won't hurt you."</p>

<p>Finally, there are both the lone alum from my school's recent history to attend Harvard and a few family friends who have recently graduated from H. The one from my school essentially said that the education was terrible, and the friends said, "Read Privilege."</p>

<p>Now, you can assail the anecdotes all you want. Douthat has taken fire, and anecdotes are anecdotes. They can be very unreliable. But taken together they all point to a very depressing trend.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Harvard has secured a reputation as, if not THE best, certainly one of the best, universities in the world. When given the choice between Harvard and its peer institutions--Yale, Stanford, Princeton, etc.--students most often choose Harvard. I do not think that some of the most intelligent young men and women in the United States and the world are so foolish that they are swerved only by propaganda. There must be some true intellectual vitality.</p>

<p>So, could anyone who is going through or who has gone through Harvard clear up this confusion? Any personal impressions that would be interesting or enlightening?</p>

<p>Thanks! :)</p>

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<p>lol, HIV</p>

<p>[edited for courtesy]....in certain pre-professional tracks you CAN'T get by without learning "for the sake of learning." I'd say the main problem is how PC harvard is. You can't go 2 seconds without being afraid of offending a hundred different groups of people.
But most of the time it's people *[langauge edited out] *they dont like because they expected Harvard to turn them into superstars just because superstars went there. Or, they spent the first three years taking intro or secondary level courses and never had a class that was smaller than 60 people.</p>

<p>I know this post might get edited/deleted and if I said this on campus I'd offend someone but it's 100% correct.</p>

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<p>There is plenty of Intellectual Vitality at Harvard, but it won't come and find you. Students aren't invested in the same image that students are at Swarthmore or UChicago. There are plenty of students here who want to be IB'ers or things like that. But there are just as many who are geniuses in Biology or Mathematics.</p>

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<p>Following up on White_Rabbit's post, the fundamental flaw with the OP's post - as with so many discussions about Harvard - is that it is implicitly based on a false and reductive premise: that all Harvard students - and Harvard itself - are this or that. </p>

<p>They're not: they're this and that and that and. . . .</p>

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<p>The greatest thing about Harvard is that you can find anything you want here (except for world class sports teams). That includes intellectual vitality; that includes shameless career pursuits.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
They all point to a lack of learning for the sake of learning, a sort of academic superficiality, an attitude that an undergraduate education is not an education, but a stepping stone to a lucrative or prestigious job.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You expect far too much from human beings. You're also over-romanticizing Harvard. It's a great place to get a decent education and prepare for the future. What's the big deal?</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'd say the main problem is how PC harvard is.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh, please: this is a problem that pervades every college community today.
And, what's this about HIV? Does Harvard have the greatest population of HIV-positive students in the US?</p>

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<p>Actually Harvard does have world class sports teams, just not in football or basketball. Our crew and squash teams and usually very good.</p>

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<p>Lol, I think HIV was referring to an acronymization of "Harvard's Intellectual Vitality." It took me a while to figure out, too.</p>

<p>Just as a note to any past and potential posters on this thread: I don't mean to insult Harvard. I'm only so concerned because I can picture myself having a wonderful experience at the University, and I sincerely hope that all the attacks on it are incorrect. I was just hoping for some anecdotes or experiences that would countervail all the ones I've already received.</p>

<p>But thanks to all who posted! Anyone else?</p>

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<p>From the Harvard Gazette, August 18, 2008:
Fencer Emily Cross helps Team USA to Olympic silver
Two former Crimson rowers take Olympic gold.</p>

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<p>Cato - As a senior at Harvard, I have countless examples of "intellectual vitality" I could share - endless debates with my freshman year roommates on topics from astrophysics hypotheticals to investment strategies to health care policy.</p>

<p>That said, I can see how the reputation and backlash you discuss has come about. Many Harvard students do cut corners when it comes to their classwork (how else do you have time to debate your roommates, and write three news stories a week?). And, clearly, not every dining hall conversation is staggeringly intellectual (I've spent many a meal talking about the latest from US Weekly, or the latest episode of Entourage).</p>

<p>But one of the biggest reasons I chose Harvard (and ended up loving it), is the way conversation can jump from Perez Hiltion to Sartre at a moments notice. I think people here are incredibly open about their dorky academic passions, and I absolutely love that.</p>

<p>(And I think I've described just one type of intellectual vitality - that of the casual peer to peer sort... An insane number of talks, conferences, debates, forums, etc are held on campus every week. For example, the author of The</a> American Scholar - The Disadvantages of an Elite Education - By William Deresiewicz will be here for a panel with a few students next month).</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Oh, please: this is a problem that pervades every college community today.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You're right, but I was talking to MIT friends and they said everyone there is more lax about it.</p>

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<p>piccolo - that's because nerds have no tact filter: Tact</a> Filters</p>

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<p>does harvard have influences on the government? it has a famous law school. actually i would imagine all ivies are influential in evrything.</p>

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<p>I'm not sure what you mean by "influences on the government." Harvard certainly has a number of professors who have/are consultants of the capital top individuals. Prime examples would be Greg Mankiew (spelling?) and Samantha Power.</p>

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<p>Just a few names:</p>

<p>Roger Porter, Master of Dunster House, IBM Professor of Business and Government at the Kennedy School of Government, served as director of White House Office of Policy Development during the Reagan Administration and Executive Secretary of the President's Economic Policy Board during the Ford Administration.</p>

<p>Stephen Rosen, Master of winthrop House, Beton Michael Kaneb Professor of National Security and Military Affairs at Harvard University
a consultant for the President's Commission on Integrated Long-term Strategy, and director of political-military affairs at the National Security Council in the Ronald Reagan White House.</p>

<p>Larry Summers was Secretary of the Treasury for the last year and a half of the Bill Clinton administration.</p>

<p>Greg Mankiw, From 2003 to 2005, Mankiw was the chairman of President Bush's Council of Economic Advisors. He is among the most influential economists in the world according to IDEAS/RePEc.</p>

<p>David Cutler, Otto Eckstein Professor of Applied Economics, Advisor on Health Insurance to Barack Obama. </p>

<p>Ernest May, Charles Warren Professor of American History at Harvard. Served on the 9/11 Commission.</p>

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<p>great article, just<em>forget</em>me </p>

<p>Really fascinating.</p>

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<p>Yeah, thanks for posting that link!</p>

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<p>From my experience (not much, sorry), describing a college is like describing a taste. Everyone's preferences will come through in their descriptions. Take meatloaf for example. One person says, "Wow, great, meatloaf is so warm and juicy, the perfect comfort food on a cold night" - the next person says, "Ugh, I threw up, it was so slimy and chewy I absolutely hated it and I'll never eat it again". See what I mean? Harvard doesn't suit everyone, I'm sure! Ivies are not for everyone, and that doesn't mean you're a bad person for not fitting in there. Some brilliant people never fit into college at all: remember Bill Gates? </p>

<p>And, education everywhere might be declining, and Harvard going down but still at the top.</p>

<p>So that's my two bits! : )
~Grace</p>

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<p>There is significant disagreement with many of the points in Deresiewicz's article - which were discussed on this thread:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/526528-disadvantages-elite-education.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/526528-disadvantages-elite-education.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Scipio - Thanks for posting that link. Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that I agreed with Deresiewicz (I think he's off base on a number of points) - just that these kind of debates + discussions happen regularly around campus.</p>