Harvey Mudd vs. Carnegie Mellon vs. Cornell

I posted this in the other two college threads as well. I looked around, but all the threads comparing these three schools seem really old so…here we go.

My intention is a major in Mathematics and a minor in Computer Science. For a while I was pretty set on a career in academia for mathematics (it’s fully my intention to get a Ph.D. in mathematics), but I’d like the option to go into industry as well. All majors are pretty easily available to me at Harvey Mudd and Cornell, and for Carnegie Mellon I got into MCS, but I’ve talked to enough people that I don’t think a minor in CS would be too much of an issue (but if you have another opinion I’d appreciate it!)

About me: I’m a homeschooler from the Midwest. Math has been a passion my whole life, and I’m pretty far into the undergrad curriculum already (Calc BC, Multi Calc, Linear Algebra, Diff Eqs, Real Analysis, Modern Algebra done already). I also love recreational math (math camps every year). I enjoy CS, but I’m also somewhat minoring in it for job security. I’m very, very vaguely interested in astrophysics/aerospace, but I don’t think it’ll factor in that much. My dream is to work for SpaceX (in the math/CS side, not engineering), but I’m only in high school and this will definitely change.

Here are the things important to me:
-math program (esp. pure math)
-computer science program (one that’s accessible to me even as a math major)
-math research opportunities (my background would probably allow me to start after freshman year)
-a variety of research interests in the math program especially
-computer science internship opportunities
-a non-competitive atmosphere
-a good GPA for grad school
-professors that are accessible to me in general for questions/etc

Other things to consider, but that matter less:
-school size
-weather (doesn’t really matter at all, but HMC wins hands down here)
-a bit of flexibility in taking non-major/minor related courses (I’d be fine with or without these)
-prestige (this barely matters for me, but I want the school I go to to be recognized by employers on both the coasts as well as at least Chicago)
-I don’t like party/greek life, but I can probably avoid it at any of the universities
-hopefully dorms that aren’t gross xD - also I’d like to live off campus after sophomore year but I don’t need to

Insight into any of these categories would be very helpful, or even outside of these categories. I already have preconceived notions on all of them, but I’d really like to hear a lot of perspectives people might have on these schools. Please feel free to ask/PM me if you want more on my background in alignment with any of these schools.

Thanks!

Mudd sends students to SpaceX (and similar companies) for sure. One of my D’s best friends from Mudd works there.

Mudders do pretty much live on campus all four years. My kid had a single in a suite the last couple years, and that was fine. They are a pretty tight knit group and working together on projects and problem sets at all hours, so it is really convenient that almost all live on campus. The consortium gives you a lot of choices for some classes outside your major, too.

Did you make it to accepted students days?

Whoops, just to clarify, I got into all of them and have to make a decision by May 1. @intparent
I went to ASP last weekend and really like the environment of HMC, and I’m visiting Cornell and CMU over the next couple weekends. I also wanted extra opinions on them though.

My kid turned down a couple of higher ranked schools for Mudd, and was really happy there. It wasn’t her expectation going into accepted student visits. Hopefully your visits at all 3 will help you decide.

http://tsl.news/news/7576/

Consider the points raised in this article

Yup. The Mudd CS department added some sections last week in response to this issue, has gotten CMC to fund 2 new CS positions at Mudd that they are hiring for, and are looking at other ways to add capacity. There is an FAQ about it on the Mudd website, I think, too.

Also, there are some factual errors in the article. Mudd students have historically taken more classes at the other 5Cs than their students have come to Mudd. That is evening out, but many of those other 5C students are focused on CS classes — so it looks unbalanced to students quoted in the article, but in fact is not. In any case, Mudd’s administration is very focused on this issue right now. Based on my experience with Mudd, I think they’ll have sorted it out before the frosh coming in this fall get to sophomore year when it matters to them (since frosh year is almost entirely core classes).

Some random responses to some of your questions/comments:

I don’t believe you can “minor” in CS at Mudd. However, you can major is Math/CS.

There is a problem with CS classes, however, even as people were very upset 2 weeks ago, after some rearranging by the CS department they were able to offer some more classes and many people ended up getting the classes they need or want.

You may want to check out this: https://www.hmc.edu/parents/parent-faqs/cs-department-faq/

The is no greek life at Mudd…but there is very much a dorm culture. Also, almost everyone (something like 99%) live on campus all 4 years. It’s a very residential campus.

The environment is not competitive and in fact very collaborative, but you probably won’t have a high GPA for grad school. But that doesn’t mean you won’t get into Grad School. Many Mudders do very well. You can check out results here:
https://www.hmc.edu/career-services/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2017/08/OCS-Impact-Report-AUG17.pdf

There are some ways to combine other majors with CS. The physics dept offers one, for example (this is the major my kid who graduated last year had).

At the bottom of this page is that info, my kid did the “Physics & Computers” option. But I’m not sure if other non-CS majors offer this type of option.

https://physics.hmc.edu/program/

CMU’s math reasearch seems to be more computer science-oriented, so I probably wouldn’t go there for pure math. Cornell’s math department is much bigger, so it’s probably easier to explore various math areas, but the professors might not be as accessible as in HMU. I’d say go with Cornell or Mudd depending on where you feel you belong, as they’re so very different.

@ClaremontMom

Minor correction – Mudd students (who are doing an off-campus major) can minor in CS, along with other typical Mudd majors. See here: https://www.cs.hmc.edu/program/cs-minor

That being said, I personally wouldn’t see why a Mudd student would major off-campus when humanities concentrations are HSA options, but to each their own.

@Cicebro, what did you end up choosing?

A humanities concentration is 4 courses — not nearly as in-depth as a major. Just clarifying that. A small number students get to Mudd and realize after a coupe of semesters that they want to pursue a major at another 5C. It isnt surprising that an 17 year old might change their mind about their academic direction after starting college.

@intparent Oh definitely, most kids in their first and even second years struggle with deciding what they want to concentrate in. Just that given how renown Mudd is in the sciences and the fact that one of its major draws is its liberal arts curriculum, I personally don’t see much of a point doing an off-campus major.

But you can’t major in something like Econ within Mudd if you decide to pursue a non-STEM major. Mudd HSA courses are fine, but there aren’t enough in a given area to build a decent major, nor does Mudd offer those majors. So for a student who realizes they don’t want a STEM major but wants to stay at Mudd, they really need to major at one of the other 5Cs.

@intparent Totally understandable. Mudd’s major selection is pretty limited, so I hope most kids applying (and accepting offers of admission) know that going in. Not knowing what branch of STEM one is interested in as a freshman is fine, but IMO, it wouldn’t make too much sense if someone committed to a school like Mudd not knowing if they even want to major in a STEM field.

Sure, but you may not realize that one reason many kids pick Mudd is because they do have other non-STEM academic interests, and don’t want to completely give them up. Mudd promotes itself as encouraging more than a straight STEM view of the world. One reason my kid picked Mudd is because she said it gave her the “best opportunity to be a polymath”.

And many 17 year olds don’t really know their own minds yet on majors. They might have been encouraged by family and opportunities in a STEM direction, and realize a year or two in that it isn’t really THEIR preferred area of study. Or they get into their major and decide it isn’t as interesting (or is a lot harder) than they thought. Or they realize that while they like studying a subject, the actual career opportunities aren’t actually that appealing to them. There might be parental pressure to pick Mudd.

Certainly most of my kid’s fellow Mudd students are in STEM jobs or grad schools after graduation, but I know one who went on to study library science. Another is in law school (and I know she had a STEM career all picked out as a freshman, but that isn’t what she wanted by the time she was a senior). If you read the magazine Mudd puts out (quarterly, I think) for students, parents, and alums, you will see that the alums profiled sometimes didn’t stay in strictly STEM fields. They work in politics, law, business, art, etc. 17 year olds aren’t fully formed decision makers. It is a good thing that Mudd has some leeway – if they figure out partway through that they don’t want one of the Mudd STEM majors, they can still graduate without transferring by majoring at one of the other 5Cs. They still have to complete core, though – they will get plenty of STEM background.

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