Harvey Mudd vs. Carnegie Mellon vs. Cornell

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
1

I posted this in the other two college threads as well. I looked around, but all the threads comparing these three schools seem really old so…here we go.

My intention is a major in Mathematics and a minor in Computer Science. For a while I was pretty set on a career in academia for mathematics (it’s fully my intention to get a Ph.D. in mathematics), but I’d like the option to go into industry as well. All majors are pretty easily available to me at Harvey Mudd and Cornell, and for Carnegie Mellon I got into MCS, but I’ve talked to enough people that I don’t think a minor in CS would be too much of an issue (but if you have another opinion I’d appreciate it!)

About me: I’m a homeschooler from the Midwest. Math has been a passion my whole life, and I’m pretty far into the undergrad curriculum already (Calc BC, Multi Calc, Linear Algebra, Diff Eqs, Real Analysis, Modern Algebra done already). I also love recreational math (math camps every year). I enjoy CS, but I’m also somewhat minoring in it for job security. I’m very, very vaguely interested in astrophysics/aerospace, but I don’t think it’ll factor in that much. My dream is to work for SpaceX (in the math/CS side, not engineering), but I’m only in high school and this will definitely change.

Here are the things important to me:
-math program (esp. pure math)
-computer science program (one that’s accessible to me even as a math major)
-math research opportunities (my background would probably allow me to start after freshman year)
-a variety of research interests in the math program especially
-computer science internship opportunities
-a non-competitive atmosphere
-a good GPA for grad school
-professors that are accessible to me in general for questions/etc

Other things to consider, but that matter less:
-school size
-weather (doesn’t really matter at all, but HMC wins hands down here)
-a bit of flexibility in taking non-major/minor related courses (I’d be fine with or without these)
-prestige (this barely matters for me, but I want the school I go to to be recognized by employers on both the coasts as well as at least Chicago)
-I don’t like party/greek life, but I can probably avoid it at any of the universities
-hopefully dorms that aren’t gross xD - also I’d like to live off campus after sophomore year but I don’t need to

Insight into any of these categories would be very helpful, or even outside of these categories. I already have preconceived notions on all of them, but I’d really like to hear a lot of perspectives people might have on these schools. Please feel free to ask/PM me if you want more on my background in alignment with any of these schools.

Thanks!

2

From what you describe as your goals and desires for college and afterwards, Cornell is the best choice (other than the weather).

3

CMU’s math research seems to be heavily biased towards computer science applications. Cornell will likely offer more variety.

4

Whoops, just to clarify, I got into all of them and have to make a decision by May 1.
I went to ASP last weekend and really like the environment of HMC, and I’m visiting Cornell and CMU over the next couple weekends. I also wanted extra opinions on them though.

5

Whoops, just to clarify, I got into all of them and have to make a decision by May 1.
I went to ASP last weekend and really like the environment of HMC, and I’m visiting Cornell and CMU over the next couple weekends. I also wanted extra opinions on them though.

6

My daughter was a math major at Cornell. She was always good in math, but probably more on the applied side. Cornell’s math in A&S is top notch and is pure math, very theoretical. My kid said she felt her brain was stretched to the max and there was not more she could give. By working very hard she averaged around B+ in math, but mostly As in other courses, like econ, finance, history, art, gender studies. The math department was quite small, so she did get to know her professors quite well. When she was home on breaks, I noticed she was having regular communication with her professors/TAs on problem sets. She was at many office hours and more often than not, she met with the professors.
My kid ended up having two majors and a minor, with math as her main focus. You can minor in CS within A&S and it is also offered within CoE. They are same courses, but CoE has different requirements for their degrees. Cornell is quite flexible about taking classes across different colleges. Research opportunities are open to all students, not just for a particular college. My kid worked with a professor from the hotel school, as well as from the business school, even though she was in A&S.
Cornell does have Greek life, but only about 35% (check the number) of students belong to it. My daughter was a very active member and she was able to balance her school with the Greek life. Most students live off campus after freshman year. There are many options for off campus housing.
What’s nice about Cornell is its size. What’s bad about Cornell is its size. It is big, sometimes people may feel a bit lost initially. At the same time it offers more opportunities, students are more diverse so you could find your own tribe. You are going to be a different person by the time you graduate. I went to a small LAC, by junior year I was tired of my friends, campus, clubs. My kids went to a small private secondary school. They wanted to go to a large uni. By joining clubs and Greek life the school seemed smaller, and they also enjoyed everything Cornell had to offer.
You have some great options. Good luck.
One other point is many top companies recruit on campus. Both of my kids found employment through the school’s career center.

7

I don’t know anything about Harvey Mudd or Carnegie Mellon, and I’m not a math major, but I’ll still weigh in with what I can in case I have anything helpful to say on what you indicated:

-math program (esp. pure math): I don’t know much about pure vs. applied math, but I know people who majored in math at Cornell and went on to do vastly different things (graduate programs in math, straight into workforce, even medical school), and I know at least some of them were specifically focused on pure math, so I think there’s a lot of flexibility in the program to cater it toward your interests. Also, straight from the website, “The mathematics major adapts to a number of purposes. It can emphasize the theoretical or the applied. It can be appropriate for professionals and nonprofessionals alike, and can be broad or narrow. It can also be combined easily with serious study in another subject in the physical, biological, or social sciences by means of a double major and/or concentration.”

-computer science program (one that’s accessible to me even as a math major): Cornell has a great CS program, and I know plenty of people who went through it. As I quoted above, it should be very easy to minor and/or double major in something along with math, and it looks like CS and math even have some overlapping courses.

-math research opportunities (my background would probably allow me to start after freshman year): From what I’ve heard anecdotally, there are plenty of research opportunities in the math department.

-a variety of research interests in the math program especially: not entirely sure what you mean by this, but the math program has a bunch of concentrations, so shouldn’t be too hard to cater toward your research interests.

-computer science internship opportunities: there are a ton of CS internships that interview right on campus; if you’re qualified this shouldn’t be a problem.

-a non-competitive atmosphere: students at Cornell are never competitive with each other in a malicious way, despite what stereotypes might have you think. They might be competitive in general and strive for the best grades, but this doesn’t affect how they collaborate from what I’ve seen.

-a good GPA for grad school: this will of course depend on you as well, but again I know a lot of people who have gone on to grad school from these programs.

-professors that are accessible to me in general for questions/etc: this will depend on the class; in intro-level classes you’ll most likely deal more with TAs, but all professors should still hold office hours. They’ll most likely be more accessible once you get into higher-level seminars.

-school size: about 14,500 undergraduates, but dividing it into smaller colleges sometimes makes it feel smaller

-weather (doesn’t really matter at all, but HMC wins hands down here): it’s currently snowing here but I’ve lived in Ithaca 21 years and I’ve survived

-a bit of flexibility in taking non-major/minor related courses (I’d be fine with or without these): this is encouraged/required in Cornell’s Arts & Sciences; there are distribution requirements that encourage you to get a more well-rounded education. You mentioned an interest in astrophysics; you could easily take intro courses related to that and see what you think. Probably my favorite part about CAS was its flexibility and how it encourages exploration and a variety of coursework.

-prestige (this barely matters for me, but I want the school I go to to be recognized by employers on both the coasts as well as at least Chicago): Cornell’s name is pretty recognizable everywhere; I know people who went to work on both coasts and Chicago (which is where I’ll be working) after graduation, along with just about everywhere in between.

-I don’t like party/greek life, but I can probably avoid it at any of the universities: about 1/3 of Cornellians are Greek, so you can pretty easily avoid it if you want

-hopefully dorms that aren’t gross xD - also I’d like to live off campus after sophomore year but I don’t need to: the dorms are mostly fine (although there are a couple on North Campus, where freshmen live, that have a bad reputation), and the majority of Cornellians live off-campus after sophomore year.

8

If you want a PhD in mathematics for certain Cornell is the best option, although Harvey Mudd does get a lot of students into PhD programs. The reason I believe Cornell is best is that is is well ranked in math and CS, and its got good relationships with very top math PhD programs like Harvard, Courant Institute (NYU) , Brown University, Princeton, and MIT on the east coast. ( Carnegie Mellon is tied with Penn State in math ranking, at 32 and its CS program is ranked well, but its very small but very mathematical but you did not get into that program as I understand your post) . Cornell has more name recognition in pure math, a much higher pure math rank, and is very tough but the best option. Harvey Mudd, you will have to go to math REUs to get the most out of your undergrad education and at Cornell you should consider math REUs as well.

See U of Minnesota Duluth its one of the best Math REUs in the USA for pure math:

https://www.d.umn.edu/~jgallian/progdesc.html

Find the best summer REUs and apply to them no matter where you go to college . You will need two or three recommendations to get into the top math PhD programs so you need to work with a Cornell (or Mudd) professor and to get other recommendations. Harvey Mudd math is good, but its not the research level that you will find at Cornell U. Good luck.

9

CMU is heavily pre-professional and focused on corporate career placement. They’re definitely strong in math, but with a lot of focus on competitions, i.e. Putnam etc. And as others have said, CS is their most prestigious and competitive academic area, so many roads will lead in that direction. Cornell probably provides more balance - as much CS as you want, but not to where it overshadows other aspects.

If I had your decision to make, I would look first at a two-way decision between Cornell and CMU. (And to me, Cornell sounds like a better fit, but obviously you will visit and form your own impressions, and of course there’s no bad/wrong choice here!) Then look at your east coast contender vs. Harvey Mudd, which is quite a different experience all around. Aside from the regional and campus-life differences, the biggest question is whether the broad and rigorous HMC core is something you want. If your interests are as broad as the core requirements, it is a wonderful foundation to have. If you would rather do more picking and choosing among the STEM subjects, then you might not appreciate the heavy workload to cover ground you wouldn’t necessarily have had to at Cornell/CMU. It’s a big commitment to the core before you get to the point where you can specialize more. But it’s also an unparalleled academic experience if it’s a good fit.

10

Here is a nice review of the Mudd Core curriculum. Its the most rigorous science and math core in the USA, I bet. Its has overlap with MIT’s science and math core, but Mudd is heavier on labs to go with the sciences, so chemistry labs and physics labs and other labs are required. I think Mudd requires a lot more math than MIT does for their core. (although a CS major at Cornell or CMU will require linear algebra, etc, many other majors will not. All Mudd degrees require all the math )

https://www.hmc.edu/academics/common-core-curriculum/
https://www.hmc.edu/inclusive-excellence/wp-content/uploads/sites/48/2017/04/HMCCore_External_March2017-004.pdf

11

Re # 9, Just looked at the first link, but that doesn’t look that different to me than typical engineering college requirements, except for also requiring a biology course.
Here’s Cornell engineering’s requirements, for example:
https://www.engineering.cornell.edu/students/undergraduate-students/curriculum/undergraduate-requirements

Of course pure math majors at Cornell typically wouldn’t be in the engineering college, they would be in the College of Arts & Sciences. But from there they would be able to take analogous course sequences, if they wanted to. They just wouldn’t be forced to.

Another thought for OP: if OP really has undertaken all that math already, at a level similar to an undergraduate college, then availability and accessibility of graduate-level courses may be germane.

12

@Coloradomama That is baloney that a Mudd kid would need to do an REU for good math research from Mudd. They would have extensive excellent research opportunities right on campus, likely starting summer after frosh year.

13

So, @Cicebro, where are you going ?

14

Thank you to everyone for the input! It really helped me weigh the three colleges better.

@monydad I committed to Carnegie Mellon! Cornell’s faculty was by far my favorite out of all three universities when I visited, but I ended up choosing Carnegie Mellon finally because of size, social environment, and math+cs opportunities.

15

Thanks for letting us know.
Best of luck !!