<p>I do not know the answer to your question, but I am sure that someone will. Why do you want to take the test? Most music schools will require you to take theory there, or take their challange exam regardless of the score you get on the AP. This may or may not be the case if you are a non-major who wants to take music theory courses. I am sure others will chime in with answers and information.</p>
<p>I am dredging up this old thread to comment that D did sign up for AP music theory this year (she dropped to AB Calc in order to lighten her load somewhat) and to inform anyone interested that the class is a killer-but not for D. She personally knows of 8 people in the class who are currently carrying a D or an F. Most of them have a voice background. She herself is devoting enormous amounts of time to it, but is pulling an A. Her teacher is fabulous. She loves it.</p>
<p>I am going to second Queen’s Mom. My daughter is a singer who thought she was going to be lost but is doing extremely well. The vocalists are having a more difficult time as a rule though. Whether she takes the test is up for grabs, but she loves the class and it will be invaluable come auditions.</p>
<p>Both my kids took it and got 5’s on the tests knowing full well they would have to take theory in college. They both loved the class and learned allot. My son who is in college now gets to use the 3 credits to drop an elective class so that’s fine with him.</p>
<p>My kids both took the course as well. Only DD took the exam (DS was a music major so he didn’t bother with it). Both said that having taken PIANO was the biggest key to success in the course. Both of my kids studied two instruments (piano and one other)…and sang. DD got a 5 on the exam.</p>
<p>Yep, I agree with Thumper1.
I teach AP Music Theory, and most of my top students have been pianists who sing. </p>
<p>In my experience, the student that does the best on the exam is the student who plays an instrument and sings in an ensemble. That kid has the keys, modes, rhythms common to the meter, and musical terms down solid. He sees four-part choral scores (instrumental kids usually only see their part), and hears bass and soprano lines every day. That kid isn’t afraid to sight-sing. </p>
<p>I can and do teach this in class, but to have the reinforcement outside of class is crucial. As I tell my classes, “all musicians are singers”.</p>
<p>Well that makes sense then, pageturner, since D took piano, guitar (which she claims was not helpful at all) and she sings in a choir. The class improved her sight reading tremendously and it is only October.</p>
<p>Hello Queen’s Mom – I feel a little contrarian this evening – so please take my question with a grain of salt. I was reading your previous comment about the fabulous teacher who has seven or eight kids carrying a D or F in an AP music theory class. Somehow that doesn’t jive with what I normally think of being a fabulous teacher. If you had told me that your daughter had a terrible teacher with seven or eight kids failing – that jives. Did I miss something in the translation?</p>
<p>According to D, KeyofH, and please take that as the second hand report it is, the kids who are not doing well thought they could coast on prior musical knowledge and have not been working. The teacher is strict and demanding, but D adores him because she has learned so much in such a short time.</p>
<p>KeyofH…when my DS took music theory, the class started off with 10 students. 6 of them dropped the course. They falsely assumed they could get an “easy A” because they were either decent instrumentalists or singers. They didn’t realize that the course is actually demanding in terms of workload. Many didn’t do well on the first few tests. By the way…just like Queen…the teacher was fabulous. My kids got a LOT out of the course. In fact DS found that his theory placement exams were actually very easy while some of his college friends were fretting.</p>
<p>On that note (ha ha), there are plenty of schools that do not have a Theory 1, or an introductory course to AP Theory. That would make AP pretty difficult for the inexperienced theory student. I have only just enough time to fit the AP curriculum in to the year and have the kids absorb it properly. I can’t imagine how it would be if the school had to combine Theory 1 and AP in the same year. </p>
<p>Should a student who is going in to music in college take AP Theory, even though the credit may not count? YES! Every year I have students who have graduated come back to visit me and talk to my classes about their experiences. They all say (ALL) that the most beneficial things they did in high school was to take AP Music Theory and to sing in an ensemble (or if they were already a singer, to take piano lessons).</p>
<p>Okay. I say uncle. I could continue in my contrarian ways and say that a really fabulous teacher would have set expectations early in the semester and/or inspired the uninspired, but I’ll let the issue rest in the face of reality. My daughter really enjoyed music theory; it came very easy to her; and she is grateful for the course in providing a foundation for college music theory. Her teacher was not fabulous; many kids in the class had difficulty with the music theory course. The difficulty came not from a lack of interest on the part of the students but from uninspired teaching from a teacher for whom music theory came like second nature. She had no patience with kids who had difficulty and did not extend a helping hand. This is part of the reason I railed against the combo of fabulous teacher and students doing poorly. It’s one thing for a teacher to take talented students and make them smarter. It’s another thing for a teacher to take mediocre and uninspired students and guide them toward success. Enough pontificating for so early in the morning!</p>
<p>pageturner, D’s school does not have Theory 1. AP is usually the first exposure these kids have to any sort of theory. They are mostly performance driven until then.</p>
<p>My D’s school doesn’t offer any sort of Theory at all - the kids who want to do AP Theory have to self-study or arrange for private lessons elsewhere.</p>
<p>Well, there are the kids who catch on to the subject quickly. A few students in my class skip over Theory 1 (because, guess why, they’re pianists) and go right to AP. </p>
<p>Ah, stradmom, that must be pretty difficult for the kids, especially since aural skills is so important on the test, and that’s hard to study for outside of a classroom. However, there are those driven students who can do remarkable things.</p>
<p>My son is a pianist and is considering self-teaching himself for the AP music theory test. He’s pretty knowledgeable about theory but not even close to someone who has taken a year-long class. Is it worth his time? His rationale for taking the test is to bolster his college application.</p>
<p>alohagail…if your kiddo takes the AP exam their senior year, the score will not even be AVAILABLE until summer after he graduates. No chance to “bolster the application”. Even if he takes AP music theory as a junior, the AP scores are really not used by most schools in the admittance decisions. If your kiddo is planning to major in music, the school he enrolls at will give him THEIR music theory placement test. The AP test won’t really do him a speck of good.</p>
<p>^^Agreed, the test won’t help. However, the class itself does a lot of good…as I suppose self-study would, just to get a leg up.</p>
<p>Two comments:
- Of the 15 high schools in my city, not a single one offers any music theory courses. All of the music courses are performance-based. Students study music theory privately.</p>
<ol>
<li> Learning music theory is similar to mathematics (I have taught both). A base of skills is necessary for success.<br>
The world’s most talented dedicated and inspiring teacher cannot do enough to get a student through a genuine Algebra I if that student comes to the class working at a grade 5 level in mathematics (and yes, that happens all the time). Certainly some teachers give such students passes in such courses (and are widely lauded by parents, students, and administrators), but I can assure you that despite the pass, the student does not have the skills to be successful in future mathematics courses, unless they manage to get another teacher who equates success with breathing.<br>
Students that come to AP music theory with only a weak ability to read notes in a single clef, with no keyboard skills, and a smattering of knowedge of key signatures, scales, intervals, chords, and rhythms are like the math student in Algebra I that cannot add, subtract, multiply or divide whole numbers or fractions. You cannot cram three or four years of work into a single year, no matter how wonderful a pedagogue you are.<br>
There can be many reasons for so many students performing poorly in a class:<br>
a) bad teaching;
b) good teaching with the bar set inappropriately high (often to weed out students who will require more energy or bring the school’s/teacher’s test scores down);
c) lousy students that cannot be inspired or motivated because they came expecting a free ride;
d) good students that just lack prerequisite skills and should have been properly advised in their course selection.<br>
Personally I am far prouder of my weak students that have achieved success and grown by 2.5 grade levels during a single year, than I am of my students that have taken regional and national honours. However, not every student is ready to master everything, and sometimes I have had to admit that some students need to select an easier or prerequisite course.
Having said all that, having such a large number of students in a class with D’s and F’s is not good: students are probably not learning. Administrators need to see that students make good course selection decisions.</li>
</ol>
<p>Well said, violindad. I agree. </p>
<p>I taught privately for years (in many places throughout the country, and same as you, not just music), and I find a huge correlation between music theory and math, not just as a “base of skills” (although that is certainly a big part of it) . </p>
<p>On the other side of that, a lot of those math-brained kids can do very well in written music theory, but fall apart in aural skills. The aural skills required for the AP are almost impossible to teach in a one-year class. They absolutely need a strong foundation in fundamental skills from their elementary/middle schools and/or private instrument study. Preferably both.</p>