"Have a Plan B"

My S participated in a masterclass with saxophonist Dave Liebman today and got to play for him. The jazz director at his high school does an amazing job setting up these masterclasses and my son has been lucky to play for so many jazz greats. It’s been a really inspiring experience for him. What’s a little disheartening, however, is that so many of them tell the students to have a back-up plan if they’re planning to study music in college.

Today, while Mr Liebman had a lot of constructive criticism to give the combo, he was overall very complimentary and seemed genuinely impressed with the level of play and participation (almost 100 kids in the jazz program in a public high school with 400 students.) Even so, he basically encouraged them to at least double major, if not major in something else all together; mentioning his drummer who apparently has a math degree from Oberlin. He told them to “have a plan B.” I don’t think he meant to be discouraging; he’s clearly passionate about music and music education.

So, where does that leave us? When so many world-renowned musicians, the ones who are the “successful” ones, are telling us that our kids need to have a back-up plan? How about all of you – are you telling your kids to have a back-up plan?

We did not encourage double major or back up plan studies in college. Our opinion was that if her focus was split then the backup plan becomes the reality. OTOH, DD now has her MM and has given herself 5 more years. If that does not work, then she will explore other plans. Meanwhile she is doing retail work and music gigs to fill in while still in the apprentice stage an auditioning. Don’t think that is a plan B, just life.

D did not double major with a plan B in mind but has discovered several ways to supplement her performance income by trading in on what she learned along the way. It’s the reason why she wanted to study at a University based program rather than a conservatory. When she first got her undergrad degree she had a job with a civil engineering firm writing proposals. That was the only job besides ESL that she has held that was not related to music study in some way. She now teaches language, music and voice privately and in a community college setting. This will probably be the last month on her teaching contract since the professional performance side is picking up nicely and her other job, as a virtual assistant editing sound for commercial webinars, takes up a lot of slack. Basically I am saying that, besides performing, there are a lot of well paying jobs that a music major can do if they cash in on their strengths. It’s a sort of plan B.

My daughter didn’t have a Plan B as such though if her interests had changed she would have altered her path. She is now in a music PhD program with funding and stipend for teaching.

She did internships with music organizations and gained skills that could have been used in a job at any non-profit. She was as eligible as any other graduate for jobs in many areas (including consulting) and could have gone to law or medical school or grad school in something else. Plan B can be next, doesn’t have to be simultaneous.

Undergrads can still study what they love in my opinion and see where it takes them. The point made above about splitting focus is a good one for many kids: better to do one thing well and deeply during those 4 years, while sampling other interests along the way in a natural way.

Having a plan B in life in general is a good idea. Not just for music. My son doesn’t really have a plan B but he’s a performance/ music ed major. He loves his music ed stuff and continually states the things he’s learned in his music ed classes have helped him develop as a musician. He will probably end up teaching. He seems to enjoy it and has been part or a toddler/ preschool program since freshman year at his school.

@Singersmom07 said:

I agree with this completely and it’s why I will actually try to discourage my daughter if she talks about doing a double-major. We were at a master class with faculty from two major U’s, one LAC, and one stand-alone conservatory. Every single one of them agreed with this. They’re take, across the board, was:

“If you think majoring in music is so risky that you need to hedge your bets, doing something that allows you to spend even LESS time working at something that you think is difficult in the first place makes no sense.”

Having a plan B is not necessarily a bad idea, though. It could be a gap year, study abroad for a year, getting a Masters in a different field, etc. But a double major for your undergrad “just in case” never made sense to me when music is hard enough as it is. Like singersmom said, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Now . . if you double major because there’s something else you’re very interested in and want to do some sort of combined career, that’s a different story all together and it might make perfect sense. (or at least point you in the direction of a BA)

EDIT: All that said, relative to the OP, I’m coming at this from the point of view of child heading into instrumental (likely classical) performance. Is jazz different? Is development as a jazz musician more dependent on gigs, and less so actual time in class?

S and I have talked a little about Plan B. I think S’ version of Plan B would be to eat Raman Noodles - actually he said he would consider genre changes (this is from a jazz perspective) or more private teaching. I am thinking of the completion of a BM as sort or a baseline for a Plan B in itself

Besides a plan B I think it is VERY important for your student to go into this with their eyes wide open. Know what a typical career looks like for recent grads.Know where the best market for your instrument and/or talent is. Know that you should at least have a series of benchmarks and along with these benchmarks a few alternate plans in case those benchmarks are not met. Networking with recent grads and professionals can be really helpful here.

One thing I’ve been thinking about is that most of the concern is focused on the early part of the career and when the question is asked and responses like the ones in this thread are given, we tend to think, “OK, it’s doable as long as you have reasonable expectations.” But what happens when they’re in the mid-30’s, into their 40’s? I have two friends who were really promising musicians, “gifted” even. One got her masters at Jacob School of Music (IU) and another went to The New School for jazz. Both managed to “make a living” performing into their 30’s but, at some point, they got tired of constantly having to hustle for jobs. Their first year-long contract seemed HUGE, but then they were in their late-30’s and a year commitment wasn’t enough to buy a house or think about starting a family. They both left music in the end. Looking back, they would have been considered music success stories 10 years out of school.

I bought my S a turn-table for his birthday and at the three “nice” audio stores where I went shopping, the salesmen who helped me were older musicians who told me they’d been relatively successful professional musicians but had to find some way to get health insurance, etc. when they “retired”. There are only so many who can become celebrity college professors. Even the most realistic musician probably doesn’t picture him/herself at 65 years old, selling stereo equipment in a strip mall.

In the bust cycles of engineering, I have seen the same thing for a few people. I have seen engineers age in their jobs and not stay fresh, then have to struggle when laid off. In the dot-com bust, I started my own cleaning company as I feared the pay rates for engineering were closing in on those of a cleaning business owner. I admit that overall, engineering has probably produced hard-to-beat dollars than many musicians, but my judgement is colored by the other things I list. I have stayed ‘fresh’ by being a contractor engineer - I hustle for work every year, but find the feeling of freedom so much better than being pigeonholed in one place.

Just want to say that theoretically anyway, everyone now can have health insurance, job or no job :slight_smile:

There are gifted musicians who don’t major in music at all but study something else that they love, and practice and take lessons and perform.

Many ways to go. That’s why I like that Peabody essay so much. http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html

Studying music as an undergrad doesn’t lock you into anything anyway. People graduate with all kinds of degrees and do all kinds of things.

Life happens in zigs and zags and undergrad study is just one zig.

It is interesting the numbers of articles that I’m now seeing about “the gig economy” for non-musicians. Maybe it will actually be beneficial over the course of a life to be tuned into the gig economy from the start. As more “professionals” who never planned on it are patching things together and hopping between gigs musicians will have more company.

A friend’s brother was a straight up jazz pianist for years and now has an “office” job with sound for games I think and still gigs. It was the same story of regular income to support a family.

My point really was that “have a plan B” coming from successful retirement-aged performing musicians have a different impact.

Don’t get me wrong; I’m absolutely not a conservative parent in my feelings about this. I spent my 30’s wandering the world as a chef (and drove my PhD academic parents crazy) but my fallback was an engineering degree and, while I sort of resented that fact in my 20’s, I now appreciate the fact that it enabled me to choose where I wanted my child to grow up, pay for the music lessons and his college choices, and allow me to look forward to more than just having health insurance when I retire.

The concept of unions is on a downward trend but it just seems like there should be more to support and protect musicians for the long haul. One musician at the Detroit Jazz Fest told us that they do a much better job of taking care of older musicians in Europe.

They do a much better job of taking care of younger musicians as well. :expressionless:

My son is a composition major so is in a different position than performance majors. Not because achieving a career as a composer is any easier than an instrumentalist. Rather, it is different because he more easily built other academics into his focus on composition. He has taken enough math and computer science to seek graduate degrees in either if he so chose. But he did not take these courses because as a Plan B. It is simply that math and computer science fit intrinsically into his musical works which often include acoustic instruments along with electronics, and visuals for which he writes the code. I think it could also work the other way around at the undergraduate level. Take enough music that should they choose, they could follow music despite another major. We need kids to stick it out in the arts otherwise we would not have arts.

Goforth - I am thinking of the completion of a BM as sort or a baseline for a Plan B in itself.

My thoughts exactly. A college degree is a spring board to a lot of careers. I don’t worry about this too much being a liberal arts major. I’ve never had difficulties finding good employment even though I left college without a clue about a career path. If you can hustle and work hard, there are many job opportunities.

While I understand the musician telling the kids to have a plan B, I don’t necessarily agree that means, for example, doing a dual degree or dual major (if in a BA/BA situation, for example). Kids do need to go into this with their eyes wide open, they need to understand the reality, how competitive it is, how hard it is to make a living as a musician , all the things we talk about on here. I saw plenty of kids like that, talented, who had this vision that they were going to become the next Joshua Bell or Hillary Hahn, that was their focus, and for the most part they were kidding themselves, as good as they were, I doubt very much they would make it as soloists…and they needed a reality check.

It also doesn’t hurt to think about what you might do if music doesn’t work out, but the problem with the ‘plan B’, especially a dual degree, is like others I think that creates a self fulfilling prophesy, both because the kid already has a big seed of doubt planted (hearing “better get a useful skill, musicians starve” all the time doesn’t help), and if they pursue a dual degree or major, the time it takes to get the other degree, the demands, take away from the one thing performance students generally don’t have enough of, time, and also takes away from focus as well. It is one thing to think “if music doesn’t work out, what path can I have at that point, what might I want to do”, and another to try and hedge bets at the same time. One of the ironies is that I have seen kids doing dual degrees where the second degree was a liberal arts degree (English, History, Business Administration) that in terms of job skills, probably wouldn’t be seen by employers as more employable than a BM degree. Even with things like comp sci degrees, I know plenty of musicians who work as programmers who did training later, you don’t need a comp sci or engineering degree to work as a programmer or network security analyst or other IT fields. One thing to avoid is the common perception, that the best route is to get a music ed degree, so if you need to, you can teach. Unless you have a passion for teaching, don’t go that route, there are a lot of music teachers who are frustrated performer wannabees IME, and they tend to be terrible teachers…not to mention that getting a job as a music teacher in a public school is not so guaranteed a path either.

The other thing wrong with that message is it sends the word that a music degree is ‘worthless’, that if you get a BM degree if you want to go to grad school, or get a job requiring a college degree, that a BM degree isn’t a ‘real’ degree, and that is utterly wrong. A lot of people who get music degrees, including most of the kids who graduate from Juilliard et al, end up doing things either within music outside performance, or the majority, doing other things and that degree was there for them. Speaking as a hiring manager, I would rather see someone for an entry level job who had a music degree than someone who got a business administration degree, because I personally thing business administration degrees aren’t particularly rigorous or more importantly, will have the skill set I would be looking for, and this was true long before my S got into music. and others have similar views among hiring managers I know.

And yes, the arts can be a hard one, because they take a lot of time to establish oneself, and then you can find that the lifestyle you are able to achieve works okay as 20 something, but won’t work if you want to settle down and have a family. Actors face the same thing, it can take a while to establish yourself, and there comes a point where they have to find other alternates, too. Dance is a bit different, in that with Ballet by the time you are 20, or maybe 18, you pretty much know whether you have a chance or not. On the other hand, voice students develop slowly, and they may not even be ready to see how good they are until they are nearing 30…it is why arts require a very different focus than let’s say going into engineering or IT or medicine or whatnot, you kind of have to recognize it is a lot harder to figure out if you are ‘successful’, and it is simply nebulous about how you even can achieve that, it is why people say if you can see yourself doing anything else, you may want to do it, you kind of have to go full steam ahead with it, focus on it IMO, and assume that it won’t be the same thing as establishing a career in another field.

There are also other paths besides going the BM route, but the people I have seen make that work with music (where for example they get a bachelor’s in let’s say engineering, study privately, then maybe pursue a master’s degree) tend to be people when they enter college, they already are playing at a very high level, I have seen plenty of kids come out of Juilliard pre college, CIM prep, SF conservatory prep, etc, where they are already strong musicians, get an academic degree, then end up getting an MM,but they already were solid, so studying privately worked for them (and obviously, this is all my experience, it certainly isn’t gospel).

One thing to avoid is the common idea that if you want to be a musician, get a music ed degree, then if performing doesn’t work out, you can always ‘get a job as a teacher’. Unless you have a passion for teaching, and see it as something you would enjoy doing as well as performing, don’t go that route, there are a lot of music teachers out there who are frustrated performers, and they generally are horrible teachers because they had to ‘settle’ for teaching (and that is in their view, not mine). Not to mention that music ed is no guarantee of employment these days, lot of schools have dropped music, and others hire part time music teachers, who teach at several schools, and therefore don’t get benefits and such…so it may not be such a hedge.

Well, with all due respect, you may not agree with the message but it’s one that’s being given, and by those who have walked the walk. But I will qualify that these are all jazz performers (no such thing as a ‘jazz ed’ degree.)

@ScreenName48105 - You are right that direct statements from walkers of the walk is veryy high importance information. With that given, I just don’t know how the drummer will use his math degree 15 years down the road when his jazz drumming gets old for him. An engineering degree that is not rolled inot practice will look weird - you have an engineering degree from 15 years ago with ‘no’ engineering experience?

@goforth:
I agree with you on that, that having that dual degree may not serve you well in that field if you have never used it, then 15 years later decide music isn’t working, I didn’t think of that. At that point, if the person has a BM degree, or an EE degree or a CS degree , it is likely they will add up to the same thing in terms of getting a job, you will be basically an entry level applicant with a college degree, and with engineering or cs I am not so sure you could get a job ( might be able to).

@screename48105: I wasn’t disputing what they said, they know how hard it is to support oneself long term as a musician, what I was pointing out is that having a ‘plan B’ in terms of things like a dual degree might not help you much, which GoForth explained better than I did. I think it is valuable to think of the future and ways if music doesn’t work out you may want to head, just saying that a hedge like a dual degree might not help any more than a BM would if 15 years down the road they decide to get out of music, that’s all.