<p>First a little background on myself. I am a Freshman PreMed/PoliSci major at Notre Dame. Right now my science GPA is sitting at a ~3.4 (that includes my projection for what I'm going to make in my science classes this semester...). I am already doing undergraduate research with a professor here, and presumably will continue to do research and hopefully get an internship sophomore/junior year.</p>
<p>Obviously this GPA is low... my overall GPA is a ~3.5. I'm hoping that by next year I can pull my science GPA up to a 3.5, but this means getting at least an A- in both semesters of General Biology :/ I'm just really worried right now that my GPA is going to prevent me from getting into a top medical school. I seem to be a very good standardized test taker (AP/ACT/SAT scores all higher than most of my peers here at ND), so I'm sort of banking on doing well on the MCAT. If I can get my science GPA up to a 3.5, am I going to have a shot at top 30/40 schools (assuming my MCAT is at or above average for those schools)? I'm really really worried at this point... my GPA was below average for most of the schools I applied to for UG, but my high SAT/ACT score seemed to make up for it. Is it going to be the same way with med school?</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughts.</p>
<p>EDIT: I am originally from Texas. Am I going to have a better chance at getting into Baylor/Southwestern since I am in-state?</p>
<p>With a 3.5 can a high MCAT get you into a top 40 school? Yes. An average MCAT for the schools you apply isn’t going to be enough unless you boost your GPA. It’s better to do that than count on something that is far from certain. Generally, people who have lower GPAs are a lot less likely to rock out the MCAT regardless of standardized test taking confidence. And yes, being in state for Texas increases your chances at Baylor and Southwestern.</p>
<p>^^^ I thought Baylor was a private school, it should def. help for Southwestern, but I am not sure about Baylor.</p>
<p>I am sure the science classes at ND get easier, after the intro classes (or at least thats true at my school), the intro science classes here are really tough to discourage potential pre-meds, but upper level science classes get “easier” (they are still more work, but as long as you do the work, you do fine in the class).</p>
<p>I’m simply not going to be able to get my GPA higher than a 3.5, unless my bio electives turn out to be really easy (i.e. I’m able to get an A). It’s not that I’ve done BAD in my classes… it’s just that I’ve gotten a B+ in all my sciences except for one A- thus far. And in regards to the above comment, I’ve actually heard the opposite at ND. Organic 2 is supposed to be much harder than Organic 1, Physics 2 is harder than Physics 1, etc. So to raise my science GPA a lot I would have to get an A in the rest of my science classes… I’m not sure that I can do that :/</p>
<p>With a 3.5 GPA, your target schools should be your state schools and lower-tier schools with mid-tier schools (the ones ranked around 30-60) as reaches.</p>
<p>I am sure about BCM. Texas residency will help immensely. Baylor takes over 80% of its students from Texas largely in part to state funding (and the deal made years ago to acquire it). That is also why tuition is so incredibly low for a private school. </p>
<p>There are few private med schools that don’t give a boost to their state’s residents . It some instances it is small, but it is still a boost. In Baylor’s case it is huge. The MSAR will show it in their admissions breakdowns.</p>
<p>I would be delighted going to Texas Southwestern… I’m from the DFW area, and I absolutely love it. Plus, coming from a very poor family, the instate tuition is very appealing.</p>
<p>I was also wondering, is there a subjective aspect to med school admission? I come from a very… turbulent background to say the least. My parents are divorced and both former drug addicts that have turned their lives around recently, but obviously this isn’t the ideal environment for a kid. My biological mother suffers from a severe traumatic brain injury and requires constant care. My stepmother, who I always knew as my “mother” (she raised me) died when I was 10 of a very rare lung disease. I also suffer from depression and severe anxiety, which is biological and runs in my family on both sides. My objective isn’t to give med schools a sob story to make them feel sorry for me, but rather explain why becoming a doctor appeals to me so much.</p>
<p>I’d write about this in the appropriate spot. There will be an appropriate spot - "Do you wish to be considered as disadvantaged? Explain. " “Is there something else we should know?” Be honest. Don’t over-sell. Don’t whine or excuse. Just present the facts, they’ll draw the conclusions. </p>
<p>
But personally, I’d tread lightly here- in fact, I’d leave it out.</p>
<p>3.5 is on the high end of the average for people who don’t get in anywhere. Further, if you’ve gotten a B+ in almost every science course (and one A-), what’s your sGPA? ~3.3? That’s pretty low, TBH. Unfortunately, with grade inflation, at many schools a B+ is right at the 50th percentile and that simply won’t cut it for med school. You need to bring that GPA up a bit if possible. However, you should keep mind that ANY U.S. med school is a “good” school, actually… a GREAT school!</p>
<p>Also, didn’t see the mental health stuff. Yeah… leave that out. It’s going to bring more questions than it’s worth. As much as mental illness is a disease, it still carries a stigma – worse than obesity, I’d say. So…yeah, keep that outa there!</p>
<p>my science GPA is a 3.399, essentially a 3.4. My overall GPA is a 3.5. I’ve done really well in all my non-science classes, and over the next 2/3 years I will be taking more and more liberal arts classes where I assume I will continue to excell. I’m not worried about my overall GPA, I think it will be fine, but obviously overall GPA doesn’t matter much to medical schools (or does it?) I think it is doable to get my sGPA to a 3.5. I think about the max I could get it to is a 3.58 (this is with A/A- in biology and my biology electives and B+ in Orgo 2).</p>
<p>Also, my freshman year schedule is harder than most of my peers. My advisor told me it was the hardest one she put together… I took a lot of classes. </p>
<p>-Semester 1-
Calculus III (B+)
General Chemistry I (B+)
Physics I for Engineers (B+)
Spanish 2 (A)
Theology I (A-)
PE</p>
<p>-Semester 2-
Physics II for Premeds (projected A-)
Orgo I (projected B+)
Philosophy
Spanish 3
Undergrad Research (2 credit hours for about 8 hours a week in the lab)
PE</p>
<p>I don’t know if rigor of UG work contributes at all… most premeds at ND only take one lab science freshman year. I am taking two, and for first semester I was in a harder physics than was required of me (this was due to an advising error, I will mention this to medical schools).</p>
<p>Upon rereading this post, it sounds like I’m making excuses. I know it was my choice to take a very rigorous schedule freshman year, but I’m just trying to get the whole picture here. My GPA is lower than it should be, yes, there is no excuse for that. I’m just wondering if they are going to take into account some other factors.</p>
<p>One thing you DO need to do is get the science GPA up. Unless you are a URM (which you did not mention), a 3.399 is going to hurt you. If a non URM, it really needs to approach 3.6 if you want to even be considered for UTSW or Baylor and probably also UT Houston.</p>
<p>This is from the profile for the class that are now second year students at UTSW.</p>
<p>Average Undergraduate GPA: 3.81
Average Science GPA: 3.77
Undergraduate GPA Range: 3.1 to 4.00</p>
<p>You can do the statistical analysis yourself; sure there is someone with a 3.1 which I would guess is a URM, but to achieve an overall class GPA of 3.81 there are a lot of 3.9s and 4.0s in the class as well.</p>
<p>The numbers will be a bit lower for Texas Tech, UT San Antonio and UTMB (Galveston) so if you can’t get it to the 3.6 level you’d probably match better with one of these schools if you do well enough on the MCAT. That said Med school admissions is extremely competitive so do what you can to make your overall resume as strong as possible. Be smart in your course selection; don’t let the Physics thing happen again and don’t overload yourself with difficult classes when you have the ability to spread them out.</p>
<p>cGPA is actually MORE important than sGPA (according to a survey done by the AAMC). Both are important but a 3.6 cGPA/3.5 sGPA beats 3.6 sGPA/3.5 cGPA (all other things equal).</p>
<p>As for difficulty, your freshmen year looks moderately difficult but nothing unbelievably difficult there. Regardless, med schools could care less what the courses you took were. They don’t have the time to sift through all that and figure out how your 3.5 compares w/ somebody else’s and blah blah blah. The fact is that the history major who took a couple of freshmen-level courses in modern history, a public speaking class, and freshmen writing and earned a 3.9 first semester is going to beat out the engineering major with a schedule twice as hard as yours who got a 3.0 first semester every time. Sure, the engineering guy probably had the harder courseload but nobody has the time to go investigate whether that’s true and/or whether it is enough to offset such a large difference in GPA.</p>
<p>The fact is that the rigor of your coursework is unlikely to be taken into account.</p>
<p>As eadad stated, if you’re URM the standards will be significantly lower but if not, you’re going to have to bring things up to be competitive.</p>
<p>OP does your school publish data on the gpa/mcat scores of students accepted to medical school? I am assuming the classes at ND are tough, because of the selective student body it accepts. </p>
<p>I know that at my Undergrad school, kids with a 3.5+/30+Mcats stand 80-90 percent chances at being accepted to 1 medical school. I am sure ND has similar stats for its pre-meds, because Rice/Vandy/Emory/Cornell do as well.</p>
<p>Also most undergraduate schools publish data on where the pre-meds from the ug school go to medical school. Using those 2 pieces of data, you should be able to put things into perspective. </p>
<p>You could go talk with a pre-med advisor at your school (they will probably be more helpful in giving you information on how other pre-meds at your UG have done with medical school applications)</p>
<p>It’s important to understand that if at the low end (3.5/30) the major caveat here is “1 medical school” and unless the MCAT is much higher with the 3.5, probably not at a top 25 med school like the schools that the OP was referring to with UTSW and Baylor.</p>
<p>@apumic, I didn’t realize that cGPA could cary more weight than sGPA? That actually makes me feel loads better… as a Premed/Polisci major, I will be taking much more liberal arts classes than science classes. I am very confident in my ability to excel (make A’s) in liberal arts classes. That’s very reassuring.</p>
<p>As for medical school matriculation, the last year for which data is available is 2005. In 2005, 97% of medical school applicants with a 3.5-4.0 overall GPA were accepted to medical school. For 174 matriculants there were 27 acceptances to Georgetown, 7 to Illinois, 19 to Loyola, 9 to Northwestern, 27 to Indiana, 5 Ohio State, 10 to Creighton, 11 to Michigan, and between 1 and 5 to most top 30. </p>
<p>Average cGPA was 3.45, total acceptance rate was 77%, average MCAT was 30.0</p>
<p>Obviously there is some overlap there, but generally I think ND undergrads matriculate to fairly good schools.</p>
<p>The other caveat is the definition of “got into a medical school.” I’ve noticed it’s not that uncommon for premedical programs to count the Big 4 (Carib), PR, DO, and sometimes even lower or non-MD/DO degrees (e.g., PA, DPM, DDS) amongst the students who “got into med school.” If a school is counting those as well, they are *greatly**inflating their stats (good for them, bad for you). 80-90% for a 3.5/30 is only impressive if the students are specifically getting into U.S. MD programs. Anything else and they are basically playing with deceptive stats.</p>
<p>I hope it is for MD schools, I just emailed the dean for pre-meds about it, Emory didn’t specify if it was only MD or everything else included, but they did specify in their charts that it represents current Emory Undergrads as well as Emory alumni (who told Emory that they were applying to medical schools for that year).</p>
<p>^The truth is that data like that will be skewed by their nature. Even if it were only MD schools, one has to look at the number of responses to the school’s survey. Response bias predicts a very strong bias toward high percentages (i.e., I am far more likely to report my successes – in this case gaining acceptance to a medical school – than I am my failures – i.e., not getting in). So if a school has a 60% response rate (probably fairly high in reality) w/ 90% getting in at a given MCAT/GPA, then the actual number of students getting in could, in reality, be anywhere from 54% to 94% with a much higher chance of it being in the bottom half (i.e., 54%-74%) than the top half. Methodology is an extremely important thing to keep in mind when considering stats. How did they come up with their numbers? What do they want their numbers to look like? (This will influence their methods as they don’t want to shoot themselves in the foot by making their program look weaker than it really is – better to error on the high side than the low side – for the program, at least.)</p>
<p>The chart reports all 319 seniors that applied to medical school that year. </p>
<p>The chart for my school shows what percentage gets accepted by a certain gpa/certain mcat, and then it shows the overall acceptance rate. its not skewed by mainly people who make 3.8+s/34+ mcats, and then like 1-2 kids are reported with 3.5/30 mcat scores, to make it appear that kids with 3.5+/30+ stand 80-90 percent chances at medical school. </p>
<p>Ex) people with a 3.7-3.8 and a 30,31 mcat had an 90 percent acceptance rate, while kids with a 3.6-3.7 and a 32,33 mcat have a 80 percent acceptance rate in the year 2008.</p>