Opinions on Financial Aid??

Student Lounge College Life
1

<p>I don't know about all of you, but I feel very strongly that the system is majorly screwed up. I hate how Once we get to college, our privacy is insanely respected to the point where the college can't tell our parents if we're on our deathbed without our consent, yet when it comes to college, they don't care about the individual student's situation, only the parents (or in my case, step parents). </p>

<p>Let me vent a bit about what happened to me-- I grew up relativley poor. My parents divorced when I was 2, and my dad runs a one man business that isn't exactly sucessfull. My mom worked 2-3 jobs all throughout my childhood, and most years still ended up making around $20k a year. However, education was always super important, so I always atended private schools on financial aid, all the way through HS where I went to one of the mst expensive HSs in America ($24,500/year day school) for almost no money. </p>

<p>Now, my mom finally got a good job, and enough $ to feel comfortable buying a small condominium for the first time ever, then, about 6 months into home ownership was layed off, and $ got super tight again. We were almost foreclosed on, when this guy she knew offered to pay off our mortgage in exchange for her marrying him (total creep), so she did. </p>

<p>So now, I'm at that point where HS is over, and College is next. I refuse to throw away all of m years of excellent education to go to a state school that is cheap over an excellent school that is expensive. So we applied for financial aid initially leaving out my stepfather's income. Using my mom's and my dad's they gave me almost $30,000 in aid. Then when they asked for a tax return, my mom told them about her new husband, who she had only been married to for less than a year, who just happens to make about $180k/year and has extensive assets. They took away every cent of financial aid, and now I have to take out insane student loans. </p>

<p>Now, this guy she married hates me. He has an effed up mother complex where he thinks my mom is his mother (and has actually told her he thinks this), he has made her shake hands with him that she won't give me any money for school (even though she is, but she shouldn't have to hide the fact that she's helping me as much as she can), and I can actually remember hearing him through the walls say something to the effect of "I'm not giving her one cent for college--that's her father's job!" even though he's the sole reason my financial aid (which took into account my father's income) was taken away.</p>

<p>I tried talking to the financial aid office about my situation and seeing if there was anything I could do to help my situation. When I told them I'd already accepted the school, and put my deposit in, they told me that maybe if I asked realy nicely the state school I'd already rejected would take me back. </p>

<p>I always thought the point of a financial aid office was to make their school financially viable to students who could not otherwise afford it. I was wrong. They are only there to crunch numbers into government given formulas. </p>

<p>Because of this, I am insanely bitter about the whole process, and briefly questions how much I wanted to attend the school. I finally decided that the school really was everything I've ever wanted in a college, and my education (and future employment status) is worth going into debt for, but I just can't let this go. </p>

<p>How many other people have had similar situations or any advice on how I can better my situation?</p>

2

<p>you are from Cali which means you have good state schools and are really super lucky. I know the system sucks, and you wanted a private, but maybe you should rethink the Uc's. Do you really want your mom's life to become even more of a living hell, which it probably would if the guy found out?</p>

3

<p>
[quote]
So we applied for financial aid initially leaving out my stepfather's income. Using my mom's and my dad's they gave me almost $30,000 in aid. Then when they asked for a tax return, my mom told them about her new husband, who she had only been married to for less than a year, who just happens to make about $180k/year and has extensive assets.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It sounds like that you started out hoping to get over on the system especially if your mother was married when you applied because the application and the financial aid information both ask if either of your parents are married and information about their spouses. Sounds like a lie of omission.</p>

<p>You have now found out that FA takes into consideration the income/assets of your parents and their spouses. So while your mother may have been low income when she was single, the college beleives that she has definitely benefitted from the marriage to your stepfather because he does contribute to the household. Colleges beieve that the first payers of your education should be your parents/stepparents. When they refuse to pay they are essentially saying that someone elses parents should pay for your education (remember the endowments that fund grands and scholarships are ususally contributions from other people's parents (or potential parents).</p>

<p>
[quote]
always thought the point of a financial aid office was to make their school financially viable to students who could not otherwise afford it. I was wrong. They are only there to crunch numbers into government given formulas.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Since you applied to a school that offers need based financial aid your stepfather having a considerable salary and assets no longer places you at need. In the colleges eyes they feel that your parents moral and social obligation to pay for your education. Your family literally has hundreds of thousands of $$ in income and assets you they can and should pay for your education.</p>

<p>Please explain what is unfair or wrong about this.</p>

<p>It is better to tell the truth now than have it come out later (because you must reapply for FA each year and your mother would have to turn in a copy of their taxes). If it had come out later, your consequences could have been worse; your admissions could have been rescinded and you thrown out of school for lying on the application,the school would have made you pay pack every penny of aid they gave you and had your whole academic life on hold until the money was repaid.</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
I refuse to throw away all of m years of excellent education to go to a state school that is cheap over an excellent school that is expensive.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wow, what an offensive statement. Inaccurate, too.</p>

5

<p>Lkf725,</p>

<p>Along with being inaccurate, sounds like Op case a case of entitlement</p>

6

<p>my daughter would love to attend a UC school- however it is just about impossible for students to attend out of state
count your blessings</p>

7

<p>I can see why some people would be upset about my poo-poo-ing the UC's. </p>

<p>First, When I was applying to colleges, I wasn't aware that they would be so unflexable about family situations, and so I only applied to one UC, Davis, which after visiting, and talking to friends who have siblings there I decided just wasn't the right place for me. A friend of mine who spent a couple days with her brother who is Majoring in Bio said of the four classes she visited with him, two of them had 100+ students and the other had about 50. This is from a 4th year student, these were not just gen ed. classes. Davis does not allow students to live on campus after their freshman year, so past that I would have to deal with renting an apt and figuring out the logistics of all of having to pay rent while I'm not on campus (usually there are 1 year leases, not month-to-month) and on top of that having to get furniture, and transportation to class. Also, after further figuring out what I would like to do withmy life (I used to want to major in animal science, which davis is great for, but have since discovered creative writing and econ, which davis is not great for) davis simply does no offer those classes (only really changed m mind 1/2 way into senior year--after apps were in). And after talking to my friend's brother, he said that the way the housing system is, there isn't really a community feel. Everyone basically knows their roommates and a small circle of friends. So THAT is why I did not want to attend davis. </p>

<p>what is inaccurate about saying that the state school is cheap? I wasn't trying to knock it, I was just saying it's a cheap school to attend. If you get into your dream school that you've worked so hard for 4 years to get into, is it fair to have to turn it down nd go to a school that doesn't really fit? All because thisman who married my mom and is suddenly in the picture has money? </p>

<p>Part of the whole application for financial aid was hell for me. Inititally mymom refused to fill out any of the forms to even aply. I later found out that it was because whenever I emailed my mom (all of this was happening while I was at m dad's for Xmas vacation) the stepfather read over her shoulder everythin I was saying and was outraged that I needed his tax info for something, and would not let her give it. I knew that if we did get info it would be incorrect info, so I actually went into the financial aid office of the school and told them that in advanced, and asked them how I could go about helping the situation-ie if there wasanything that I could do to help me, not putting it on my mom. They said no.</p>

<p>The new prssence of this man hasn't really made general household finances any better--we live in the same condominium, drive the same car, the only difference is he won't let my mom work because he thinks she should be at home, and then he refuses topay foranything other than the bare essentials because he doesn't think he should have to. He makes my mom go out to dinner w/ him every night (I'm not talking OUT, I'm talking to denny's) even though she doesn't want to, and has ended up putting on nearly 40lbs after a year of eating out every single night--and has told him she doesn't like eating out everynight but he justvyells ather.</p>

<p>"Since you applied to a school that offers need based financial aid your stepfather having a considerable salary and assets no longer places you at need. In the colleges eyes they feel that your parents moral and social obligation to pay for your education. Your family literally has hundreds of thousands of $$ in income and assets you they can and should pay for your education." </p>

<p>how is that in any way true?!?! They've been married a year, he has blatantly told me and my mom that I am not his responsability...</p>

<p>My whole point is, HE ISN'T MY FAMILY. JUST BECAUSE HE HAS MONEY DOES NOT MEAN THAT I DO NOT HAVE NEED. That would be like someone's third cousin being a bazillionair and that person not getting any financial aid. </p>

<p>Anyways I don't have time, I just thought there might beother people ou there who've been in a similar situation, where difficult family situations have had a major impact on their college, even though none of the family stuff is the student's fault.</p>

8

<p>"My whole point is, HE ISN'T MY FAMILY. JUST BECAUSE HE HAS MONEY DOES NOT MEAN THAT I DO NOT HAVE NEED. That would be like someone's third cousin being a bazillionair and that person not getting any financial aid."</p>

<p>In the eyes of the LAW, he IS family. In the opinions of ALL schools, he, in addition to your mother, father, and any other stepparents, are those who pay for school. In the minds of the schools, it is up to HIM not to help you out with the costs, and according to his financial statements he CAN pay for school. If they looked at the finances of the STUDENTS, we would ALL be eligible for lots of financial aid, b/c we all have minimal incomes, if any at all! So, just because he is bad to you and your mom, it does not mean that you deserve more than other people. He HAS the money, he just chooses not to let you use it, which is NOT the responsibility of the schools.</p>

<p>And also, you aren't the only one who might have this problem. I'm sure there are plenty of kids whose parents COULD afford to pay the full ride for certain schools, but, for whatever reason, they say they won't do that. If the college feels the parents should pay more than they are willing, than the student either goes to a cheaper school or takes out loans to supplement their parents' contribution. It's the way it works.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
If you get into your dream school that you've worked so hard for 4 years to get into, is it fair to have to turn it down nd go to a school that doesn't really fit?

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<p>Welcome to my world! My son worked hard and excelled in school, extracurriculars and work. He was accepted into the school he wanted to attend since he was about 6 years old (accepted to CMU for BOTH engineering AND music performance majors, as well as other departments). Then he got almost no merit aid, and we didn't qualify for much need based aid. Poof! Dream over...but life goes on. </p>

<p>You will still be the same person with the same talents and abilities no matter where you go. I guarantee that you are not alone with college financial woes. I am confident that my son will find success and happiness, and you will too.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
I'm sure there are plenty of kids whose parents COULD afford to pay the full ride for certain schools, but, for whatever reason, they say they won't do that. If the college feels the parents should pay more than they are willing, than the student either goes to a cheaper school or takes out loans to supplement their parents' contribution. It's the way it works.

[/quote]

What hayden wrote is true. There are parents who aren't willing to pay X amount for college even though they CAN or should be able to, afford it; colleges make it a point to say, "That's not our problem." And in a way, it's not, because anyone could decide they don't want to pay even though they can afford it. Would it be fair if people only paid what they felt they should pay? </p>

<p>As difficult as your situation is, it is a family affair, and the decision is one you and your parents will have to make. If you truly beleive the benefits of the private education would be better for you, then it will be worth it to take out the loan. If not, you could take a gap year and re-apply to some of the other state schools next year (a bitter pill to swallow) or you could sit down and have a serious talk with your stepfather and mother and your real father, and tell them how improtant your education is, and how much you need their support in this. If you approach the situation openly and rationally, you might be able to get them on your side. Maybe you could start by asking why your stepdad refuses to contribute since he is now a part of your family and this is an investment in your future.</p>

<p>One question for any parents or other students who know the answer to this: How far are parents responsible for a child's education? And whose legal responsibility is it to pay for college, the parents or the child?</p>

11

<p>life isn't fair period
IT isn't fair that some parents have enough money to send their kids to college but don't
It isn't fair that districts that have educated affluent parents are able to provide a better foundation than districts where students are low income and students need all the help they can get.
It isn't fair to get a life threatening disease before you even reach puberty.
We fall down so we can learn to get up again.</p>

<p>As for the last question I don't think the law comes into it
WHile a student is determined to be dependent for financial aid purposes as long as they are not 24 years of age, married, have a dependent or on a post Bachelor degree- as far as legal responsibilty a post K-12 education is a choice not a right.
You have the choice to buy a Jeep or ride a bike- it isn't anyones legal resonsibilty to provide either.
You are legally an adult for most other purposes when you are 18. You can assume your own debt, etc.
The state will educate you till you are 18 or graduate high school. Other than that, the legislature does give tax money to contribute to support the higher education system especially for the citizens of that state and often at a lower cost for out of state students of surrounding states.
But the legal responsiblity IMO should fall first on the shoulders of the adult who is recieving the benefit- that is to say the student
I think more states should support higher learning more equitably, few states have the resources of California, and I do feel that an educated population is one criteria of a civilized society.
But when there are alternatives available- when a family has the resources and when schools have limited resources, why should resources be given to students whose families CAN but WON'T support them when other students have families who CAN'T support them?</p>

12

<p>That's exactly what I was saying--I was talking about how the system is flawed because it doesn't take into account individual situations. I KNOW there are other people who are in this situation, that's why I started this post. There are a lot of people in this situation where the system fails them. </p>

<p>I have several friends who's fathers are still alive, but they have no idea where they are, and because the student cannot provide their father's tax info, they get zero aid for having an incomplete application. I'm talking about how the whole system of financial aid is messed up. </p>

<p>I also have other friends, whose parents have a long term boyfriend/girl friend (one friend's mom has been with this man for 12 years, just never married him) who lives with them and contributes to the household, but their incomes and assets are not taken into account for the simple reason that they file seperate tax returns, and thus they get more aid than they need. </p>

<p>And I totally agree that it should be more on the student less on the parents. The biggest part of why I'm so frustrated is that I can't do anything to change it. I wish they looked at how independant students are and have been for a while (I work part time after school and during summers and pay for my own gas, insurance, spending money, dinner most nights, AND managed to save some for college), but they don't. I'm not just trying to say oh poor me, I'm trying to talk about how the system is off.</p>

<p>All I was trying to say was that the system is yucky. I guess people just want to criticize individuals, not discuss something.</p>

13

<p>Universities assume that the parents will contribute a portion of their income to their child's higher education, but in your case it's not.</p>

<p>I have a friend whose parents refuse to pay for him, so he gotta make loans and pay for it himself.</p>

<p>Obviously one with "years of excellent education" should, no matter where one goes will still be successful, unless one keeps a continual outlook saying life is unfair, etc.</p>

14

<p>It's not the system that's failing you, it's your family. Please, this is just a consequence of a choice your mother made.</p>

15

<p>It seems that there was some bad planning on the part of the OP.</p>

<p>First of all it did not seem that she did her homework on the FA process, if she had, she would have seen in the FA section that the most selective /ex*****ive schools ask for financial information from both parents (non custodial parent) and step parents and use this information in making decisions regarding FA.</p>

<p>Second OP should have had a realistic conversations with all parties regarding what they could or were willing to pay to finance his/her education. If someone says they are not paying for your education, beleive it. DOn't apply to a $40,000 and think that the $$ will magically come.</p>

<p>Compile a list that also includes a school which is a financial safety that if admitted , it will be a financially feasible option for you and your family.</p>

<p>Love your saftety because if something goes wrong (and in your case it did) you may end up going there.</p>

<p>While school and society beleive that parents have a moral and social obigation to pay for their child's college education, they do not have a legal one to provide their child with a college education nor do they owe you one.</p>

<p>Last, you can fool some of the people some of the time ana some of the people all of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. FA does have a verification process, you tried to get over, got busted. Had you told the truth about your parents (stepparents) finances at the beginning of the process, you woudl have saved your self a lot of heartache.</p>

<p>You now need to see if you can get into your saftey because unless your father is willing to take no the debt, no school is going to loan you the student almost $40,000 to attend school.</p>

<p>Other options are to take a gap year (do something productive) and reapply. IF you have so much confidence in your "years of excellent education", hopefully those years will serve you well in applying to schools that offer merit money (regardless of parent's income).</p>

16

<p>To the OP. You are right. The system is a ridiculously inept way to parcel out aid and is ripe with abuse. I am sorry this is happening to you . I'll whine with you but at the end of the day your step-father is still worthless and your mom is still clueless and you still need $40k. Pronto. What do you plan to do? Did she not know the effect this would have on your college chances, when she marries a rich guy who won't pay diddly your senior year (or thereabouts)?</p>

17

<p>Does your mother have another job now? Maaybe you should defer a year and have her divorce the husband.</p>

18

<p>yes legally as part of the divorce agreement you can require a parent to provide for expenses of college- however for married parents there is no such contingency
Besides he sounds horrible</p>

19

<p>As ek4 says, by agreement the divorce decree COULD provide for it. Most often , it does not.</p>

20

<p>yes when my brother and his wife who he had two children with divorced there was no provision.
On top of that my brother refused to pay for anything unless his kids attended a school which he approved of.
My nephew worked two jobs for two years while he attended a community college that had a firefighting program , as well as worked at a station house and a grocery store to pay all his bills. Now that he was accepted into a firefighting program as a junior at a major state university, my brother will now agree to contribute, ( but he isn't helping with any previous loans)
That certainly isn't fair- my brother has the greatest financial wealth of any of the siblings and he is contributing the least to his childrens education- but legally he isn't required to do so.
Whats legal and what is right are often far apart :(</p>