reality?
Any of those accepted invited to the PwC Scholars Program? I’m curious of how many students are offered this.
rgr717, Maybe it would help for your daughter to call someone in admissions after the break is over.
@lostaccount already did a letter of continuing interest. A call is the next step.
jimtoes, you apparently don’t agree with me. I think the point of this site is discussion which can only happen if there are divergent viewpoints.Otherwise it could turn into a university PR site. Each school already has one of those.
The most successful and happiest students are those with a good match to the school they attend. The match can only be good if the student can access accurate information about each school. A school with PR that is inconsistent with what is offered is being unfair to the students. There are many wonderful things about Binghamton University. It attracts strong students and provides a solid education efficiently at a reasonable cost. It isn’t an elite Ivy school. It isn’t an elite flagship. It is markedly dissimilar to those in key ways. But, it is a good mid sized public university with a strong student body. Most students graduate in a reasonable amount of time with low levels of debt and decent job prospects. Students who select the school on the basis of what it genuinely offers are likely to be satisfied with the experience. Those who choose on the basis of PR suggesting it is a well known elite ivy-like university are likely to be less satisfied.
@lostaccount, do you have a specific agenda against Binghamton? Your comments are quite disparaging, and sound like you are personally offended by the college. I do not see you making these types of comments about other colleges, are they thus free of these faults? Just trying to understand the source and motivation.
Some of your broad comments, for example “If you’ve spent any time at all at Flagships in other states you’d see that none of the SUNYs are in the same category even if the rankings make them appear to be.”, bear questioning. Are you saying Binghamton is the worst flagship in the US?
You may question their claims, hopefully respectfully, but also hopefully you are then sound in your own claims.
@jamesjunkers I was accepted to PwC with a 33 ACT, 2160 SAT (740/730/690), 790 Math I, 770 US History and a 101.23 W GPA
@cbart28, are you going to the dinner on 3/11 at PwC and do you know how many people are selected to be in the program?
NIsky1, Binghamton is not a flagship. It is one of over 60 SUNY campuses and 1 of 4 “university centers”. I would not characterize my comments as disparaging. There is nothing wrong with being a solid mid sized state university. This university spent a decade marketing itself as an elite school, claiming superiority to other SUNY’s while also pushing students through quickly in large classes, failing to upgrade their campus in favor of building an elaborate arena, directing resources away from academics and towards athletics and wasting a ton of money with corruption involving sports among other things. It is a solid mid sized state university that has some strong programs and some less so. It is comparable to the other SUNY Centers.It provides a solid educational experience. There are many schools that don’t. It is probably a fine school for most of the students who attend and excellent for some.
@lostaccount, are you going to address your claim about Binghamton versus “…the flagships in other states…”? or avoiding the question because I called Binghamton a “flagship”? Or sticking to your position in the quote from your earlier statement?
@lostaccount, my comment about “disparaging” - triggered by your “KMart”, “blue light sale”, “click heels 3 times” comments. Belittling, demeaning, disparaging. Your thoughts on those comments?
re:
“It’s come a long way from the days when it was probably a top choice for strong students.”
The referenced “days” never existed.
When my D1 was applying to colleges she rejected my input on the grounds that my vantage point was obsolete. So I went back, got the old college selection books I myself used, and did an ordinal 'rank" comparison of college selectivity when I applied vs. then-currently (about ten years ago now).
Binghamton 'ranked # 63 in overall selectivity ( my own weighting of admissions % and SAT scores) on that spreadsheet for my year, vs #82 for her year. While that indicates a slippage, it would have little impact in practice on the college selection thought process of a typical cost-sensitive NYS resident. At #63, Binghamton wouldn’t have been much more of a “top choice” at the time I applied than when D1 did.
“Given a choice, top NY students prefer the flagships of other states because they are simply better schools.”
Whether or not it is “better”, Binghamton exceeded most of those other flagships on my selectivity ranking, both in my days and in D1s (where only eight state universities were more selective). But it was also more expensive then for out-of-staters, and that was if anything compounded for D1. Most of those out-of-state flagships cost New Yorkers about the same as privates universities, and many applicants would prefer various privates over those state schools . Binghamton is not much more competing with high-cost out-of-state flagships for applicants than it is with the high-cost privates.
Whatever administration missteps may have taken place over the years, they have had little impact on a cost-sensitive applicant’s college choice thought process today. Its place in the choice heirarchy for cost-sensitive NYS students is pretty much exactly the same now as it was when I was applying. It is still among the best choices for cost-sensitive good students who are New York residents. Whether it is “better” than unaffordable and geographically remote out of-state flagships, or unaffordable particular tony private colleges, is no more relevant now than it was then for many of its students.
No current cost-sensitive applicant should really give a hoot about some prior administration’s past mishandling of the establishment of a D1 athletics program. Maybe it could have been better than it is now, but it’s not like the other SUNYs they are choosing among have outstanding athletics programs.
To me, SUNY seems to be spending plenty of money on Binghamton U. There is construction going on there constantly. The new dorms certainly “count”, they directly benefit its students.
When I’ve been there recently, downtown Binghamton was alive at night wtih BU students. That was a surprise to me, I didn’t realize there was an active student “scene” there.
Students seem to like it. I think it’s a better school than I thought it was.
Nisky1. Binghamton is a solid mid sized state school with pros and cons. Its PR is unfortunate because the school seems desperate to present itself as 'premier" and “public Ivy”. My negative comments are about the PR not the school. The school is a solid public university. It is not elite or Ivy. That is fine. It is a better fit for some students than would be an Ivy or elite school. There is nothing wrong with what it is and that is my point. And about the previous poster, the school is markedly under staffed probably due to the decisions you suggest don’t impact on students. yes they do. The mistakes and corruption were costly. At one point they discussed closing bathrooms as a cost cutting measure. I think they settled on less frequent cleanings. The school moves students through quickly, in large numbers at as low cost as possible. It shows in many ways. Short staffed is an under statement. The cost cutting in personnel could not be more obvious. Saving on the cost of tuition is hugely important to many students so it is worth dealing with the high student instructor ratios. So the pros have to do with cost and efficiency and it would be far more honest if they marketed the school that way. Oh but they have swank dorms, yes, they certainly do. They do that to attract students who see that as a huge plus. Instructors, not so much.
@lostaccount, your “My negative comments are about the PR not the school” statement is interesting - I suppose by that logic, comments about corruption are about its ethics, “not the school”, etc…
In the same breath, you go back to talking about the issues you have with the PR. I assume you are still not talking about “the school”.
You still have not addressed your sweeping claim about Binghamton versus “…the flagships in other states…”.
I haven’t studied this matter, but my impressions are:
Over the years states have cut back on funding to their private universities. Not just New York State, this is a widespread issue. In response, state universities have had to conform their programs to their existing budget or find ways to get more money.
A very few state universities have the drawing power, based on the reputation of their graduate programs mostly, to get significant numbers of full pay students from out of state. Michigan has done this for years, Recently Berkeley and other UCs are going this route, seeking more out of state students who pay full freight (hence bumping their own in-state students to do so).
Some state schools (again, Michigan for one) saw this coming long ago and started establishing their own separate endowment funds. But seems to me like the goal is mostly to keep their grad programs pre-eminent.
For some few schools, big-time football and.or basketball provide substantial extra funding.
IMO it wasn’t insane for BU to look into that, not just for student spirit but potentially for extra cash.
Law schools have been a big cash generator for their associated universities. And IIRC BU, or SUNY was looking into starting a law school in Binghamton. But the legal market has gone all to heck, grads of lower tier law schools aren’t getting jobs. So I expect, and certainly hope, that this plan has been dashed.
So they’re trying. but they have some constraints. The school is relatively small for a state U, so the critical alumni mass for creation of a big endowment or big sports is somewhat lacking. The school is undergrad centered and not hugely STEM focused, so it doesn’t have that many famous or hot programs that would draw people from afar at full pay. Whether or not the English dept is as good as it ever was, people aren’t crossing borders and emptying wallets for that these days.
But it’s not just Binghamton U that is dealing with these issues. It is a widespread problem. seems to me.
As of the date I did my selectivity analysis it hadn’t hurt them all that much, in terms of the relative quality of the students.
Nisky1 I am not sure what you are referring to or wanting comment about. Do you want me to compare Binghamton to Ann Arbor, Madison, Berkeley? Overall I think they have much more to offer than does Binghamton. Spend some time on each campus. Then tell me that Binghamton is the same as the others. Would all students get more from the flagships than Binghamton? No. In fact some students might do better going to a community college then to any of the universities discussed here. But that does not lead me to say that Binghamton is as good as those flagships on some or most dimensions. I don’t think it is. Was that the type of comment you’ve been asking for? Because I don’t think it compares favorable to those flagships is not to say that students going to Binghamton do poorly. They move through the school swiftly, have high GPA’s, most are probably left with less debt than if they went elsewhere and, since I am sure a good percent end up getting jobs in NYC, they probably have a strong average income level.
@lostaccount, i thought you would go back to your own writings, which I quoted, and maybe, just maybe, correct the record regarding inaccurate statements against Binghamton. But it seems that is not about to happen anytime soon.
Your usual pattern seems to be to refer to something different, rather than the specific question raised.
Nisky1, if you have a question, ask it. If I think it reasonable to do so, I will answer it. You want me to ponder my past posts, identify (by guessing) what you might be concerned about and address it? Sorry but I’ve already gotten my exercise this morning. We likely differ in our perceptions of Binghamton or of the well known flagships of other states. I don’t think that Binghamton compares favorably to the well known flagships of other states on most dimensions. I am sure it is a fine school for most who attend.
If everyone saw things the same way there would be no purpose for sites like this one. If the goal is to spread good cheer about each school, then this site would consist only of links to university PR departments. My opinions are just that, my opinions. My opinions are based on my observations after spending considerable time (weeks, months, years) at many different kinds of schools (all the major categories) in many states, visiting other schools more briefly, working with hundreds of students, reading extensively, attending conferences and discussing related issues with other professionals, parents and students. All that is reduced to an opinion that you may agree or disagree with. If I raise an issue that encourages students to explore their college options more carefully, the student is the better for it. I assume students don’t select schools based on a few posts on CC. Rather those on this site are seeking varied opinions that they understand to reflect the perspective of the writer. That is all my posts are-a reflection of how I view a particular school or schools. I am completely open to the idea that others may view things differently. Your perspective is different than mine.
@lostaccount, I have asked the few questions I have time for. With quotes to be very specific, you have avoided some of the most inconvenient ones for reasons best known to yourself.
It is clear that you are very knowledgeable about many of these questions, much more so than the vast majority. It is also clear, and hard to miss, the tone of your comments about Binghamton in particular, which raises questions.
It is interesting, for example, that from suggesting earlier that none of the SUNYs compare to the flagships (with no qualification), you are now modifying that type of comment to be more confined to, presumably, a subset of the flagships. Most people would agree that the SUNYs are not among the very top state schools. Different from suggesting that ALL the SUNYs are worse than the flagships as a blanket statement, I.e., they would rank at the bottom, just in case it is not clear.
The more influential you are, because of your knowledge, the more careful you need to be because of the risk of misleading others. Maybe that does not mean much to you.
Nisky1. I’m trying to figure out what you want me to address.
I am knowledgeable, not influential. I don’t represent a school. I am a private well informed individual who posts personal opinions on CC. If you thought I was saying that Binghamton is weaker then any flagship in the US, then I was not communicating well. I will try again.
I do not think Binghamton is as strong a school, on most dimensions, as the flagship (s) universities of many states (such as, not ordered, Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida, Virginia, Illinois, many UC’s, Oregon, N.Carolina, S. Carolina, Georgia, Iowa, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, Washington (state), Texas, Ohio, Maryland, New Jersey, Minnesota, Indiana, Massachusetts, Vermont). That is not to say that there is nothing about Binghamton that is better (in some ways or for some) than some flagships nor does it mean that a student will have a poorer experience or do less well if they attend Binghamton. Binghamton clearly costs less then most. That is a huge selling point.
I don’t think the term “elite” or “public ivy” is appropriately applied to Binghamton. Students expecting an elite institution that resembles an Ivy League university will likely be disappointed. The school markets itself in a way that introduces an expectation that is not actualized by the school itself. I see nothing wrong with what Binghamton is. It is a mid-sized state university where primarily NY students (with a broad range of ability levels) have loads of choices for majors and more graduate in a reasonable time period with less debt compared to most schools. That is a strength and I don’t see how it is disparaging.
The fact that Binghamton is dissimilar to elite private schools and the strong flagships is not a chance occurrence. It was the promise of the SUNY system from the very start. In contrast, most other states developed their university systems much earlier with the goal of developing the strongest institutions possible. That was not SUNY’s agenda. The SUNY agenda was a worthwhile one but a different one. The outcome is consistent with its mission. But advertising it as an elite school is not.
SUNY’s history, successes and corruptions, are very much relevant to what SUNY provides students today. The campuses, including Binghamton, were influenced by the promise that SUNY would not compete with existing school. In contrast to what has been occasionally claimed on this site, Binghamton campus aesthetics are not based on what type of architecture was popular at the time. It was designed to look and be utilitarian to squelch fears that Binghamton would compete with existing private schools. The central SUNY mission-value was to be utilitarian not elite. It does a good job at what it was intended to do.