I intend to play a varsity sport and take Engineering (undecided). I have a diverse ethnic background. Which college would you commend? Are there any issues or concerns related to either choice that should consider? If Notre Dame comes knocking, should that change my way of thinking?
Totally depends.
Notre Dame is a Division I school. I’m assuming that you are a junior - because if you were a senior and Notre Dame were interested in you playing a sport, you’d know it by now. In any case, you need to be quite good if you want to play sports for ND. D1 sports also take a great commitment of time - more or less depending on the sport, but even the lesser-renowned sports can take a lot of practice and commitment. Haverford and Lafayette are both D3 schools, so the stakes are lower and you’ll be expected to be a student first and foremost. So take that into consideration.
Another thing to really think about is that Haverford does not have a traditional engineering program at the college. They have two alternative options: a 4/1 program with UPenn (you spend 4 years at Haverford and 1 year at UPenn, and get a BA from Haverford and a BS in engineering from Penn) and a 3/2 program with Caltech (3 years at Haverford, 2 years at Caltech, same degree setup). Either way, you would have to spend 3-4 years at Haverford and then 1-2 years elsewhere. 3/2 programs usually mean that you have to arrange financial aid separately with the new school, so even if you have a generous package with Haverford, all of that would change at Caltech.
Lafayette, on the other hand, has ABET-accredited traditional options in engineering - chemical and biomolecular, civil, electrical and computer, and mechanical, as well as some interdisciplinary engineering options ([here](http://engineering.lafayette.edu/programs/)). Notre Dame has traditional engineering within an engineering school. Engineering departments also mean engineering professors who do engineering research - all of Lafayette’s engineering faculty have PhDs in an engineering field. I didn’t check, but given Lafayette’s profile, I assume that all of them are actively involved in research and actively recruit and encourage undergraduates to work with them. I would say - very generally - that if going to Haverford, specifically, is very important to you than the 4/1 program with Penn could be a good option. Conversely, if engineering is important to you but you want to be in a liberal arts college environment, then Lafayette is probably the better choice in that regard.
Actually, the Haverford 4+1 engineering with Penn gives you a BS from Haverford and a Masters in Engineering from Penn (instead of 2 Bachelor’s degrees) but I agree with juillet that it could be better to go to a college that offers an Engineering degree like Lafayette unless you really prefer a different college.
Is it feasible to major in engineering and minor in architectural studies at Lafayette, and later enter graduate schools in pursuit of a Master’s degree in Architecture (if my interests gravitated to this field)? Can this be replicated at Haverford?
That would be hard to replicate at Haverford, and expensive. You’d be paying for a 5th year of college to get the engineering degree, plus the expense of a Master’s (which usually is not funded).
Why would you even want to do that? Haverford is a very small liberal arts college. It isn’t oriented toward pre-professional training in engineering or architecture.
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My current thinking is that I would seek a Master’s in Engineering (or perhaps Architecture). However, your point has me concerned that I my overall feelings about Haverford may have me seeing a fit where there is none. I would welcome any objective input so that I can avoid a huge mistake! Does pursuing a major in engineering and minor in architecture at Lafayette place me at a disadvantage when seeking a Master’s in Architecture (in case my interests lean in that direction)?
Check the admission requirements for a variety of M.Arch. programs.
http://www.northeastern.edu/camd/architecture/academic-programs/m-arch/
http://architecture.mit.edu/architectural-design/degree/march
http://www.arch.columbia.edu/admissions/admissions-requirements/march
http://architecture.yale.edu/admissions/march-i
http://www.aud.ucla.edu/programs/m_arch_i_degree_4.html
http://arch.usc.edu/programs/master-architecture
http://design.asu.edu/admissions/grad/applying/march.php
http://www.saic.edu/academics/graduatedegrees/march/admissionsrequirements/
RE sports: Haverford is D3; Lafayette is D1.
Also if you are looking into Lafayette, have you checked out Lehigh?
I am “leaning” toward engineering, so my hope was to explore my interests in college, and participate in sports to enrich my experience (joining a small group of like-minded friends) along the way. I am concerned that I have now shortchanged myself. Nevertheless, help in the area of choosing between LAFAYETTE and HAVERFORD is greatly appreciated.
For what it’s worth my D is at Lafayette and loves it. She has friends who are engineering students who participate in varsity sports with no issues. If you have any specific questions about Lafayette you can PM me or post them to the Lafayette board.
First of all, they are both great schools. I don’t think you should feel you will be “shortchanged” at either school. A few differences to consider (in no particular order):
-Do you want to play D1 (Lafayette) or D3 (Haverford) sports.
-If you prefer to be near a city, Haverford may be better with its proximity to Philadelphia.
-I’d give Lafayette the nod if you want engineering since it has a great program
-Both are small LACs but Lafayette is a good bit larger in terms of student population.
In addition if ND comes it is certainly worth a look IMO. (My S went there for grad school) Another great school, excellent engineering program, it has an architecture program, and generally has higher level D1 sports teams.
And you didn’t ask but if you are considering engineering I’d suggest applying as an engineering major. It is often hard to switch into engineering as many of the classes start freshman year and are sequential in nature…but if you start with engineering and don’t like it it is easy to switch out to a liberal arts major.
Does applying ED II at Lafayette end my chances for financial aid? If I receive an offer through an ED II, must I accept without knowing the cost?
Your financial aid package should come with (or shortly after) your admission letter. The only reason that you can walk away from ED admission is the financial offer does not work for you.
I think we are saying that you cannot really go wrong with either school. If you are a junior, you will need to see if the coaches are interested in you as a player before you count on that. If you are a senior, it is a bit late.
@Collegelife2015 - Regarding your sport(s), have you contacted the coaches at Lafayette and Haverford? Even though Lafayette isn’t in a great D1 conference, it is still D1, and you will have to have the goods to play there. Are you convinced you are good enough? Are you convinced the coaches can be convinced? (easier to do with a sport like cross country or track and field as you just submit your times; harder to do with a sport like soccer where so much other evaluation has to be done).
If you decide to go the D3 route (Haverford), don’t expect to just state on an essay for admittance that you are an athlete and hope to have that help you in any way (I say that because I have seen others here say such things). You want to be “recruited” to ensure a spot at the school and on the team. Contact the coaches NOW if you haven’t done so already. Also, depending on your sport, don’t think that because it is D3 that you won’t have any competition making the team. I am privy to the stats of one elite LAC that had 160 serious queries about making the team (filled out online recruitment questionnaire and then supplied an early transcript when asked) with only 7 new spots available for incoming freshmen (4.38%). Many times if you are a serious contender, the school will want you to apply ED. Yes, some colleges will take just about anyone they can once they arrive on campus, but the better schools with the at least halfway decent teams will actually recruit and have limited spots available.
Good luck!
PM me if you’d like more info about LC, being a D1 athlete, and engineering. I have a kid who was all of those.
The commitment of time is quite different between D1 and D3, in general. Specifically, it depends on the sport and the school. Most D1 programs push the maximum allowable by NCAA rules, all year. Engineering is tough. Engineering and D1 sports is very tough. Kids do it, but it’s the rare bird who can make enough time to do both well. Very few athletes stay with engineering. At LC, an extra class each semester is required for engineering. In 4 years, our sport did not graduate an engineering major. I know some, it can be done, but it is rare.
My son has applied to Haverford and Lafayette. He wants to study engineering and attend a school with an NCAA fencing program. He crossed Notre Dame off the list because there’s no merit money and he’s not one of the top fencers in the country so he might not be a starter.
He loves Haverford - especially the student body and honor code. There’s no merit money. It will take 5 years to get an engineering degree (but a Masters). We met with the Professor who runs the 4/1 and 3/2 programs, Walter Smith. I’d suggest contacting him to get more information about these options.
Though Haverford has a DIV 3 fencing program, it’s probably as strong as Lafayette’s DIV 1 program. Lafayette may offer some merit money, and it does offer a 4 year engineering degree. Haverford is his second choice (Brown is #1) because it just feels right. For some students more weight is given to the fit and feeling of the school. Removing Brown from the picture, he thinks he’ll be happiest at Haverford.
Thank you for the perspective, Epeemom. We have heard much the same about Haverford in terms of fencing and the feel of the college. However, we’ve received mixed messages on the “logic” of the engineering track. Perhaps we’ll reach out to Mr. Smith. Does participation in the 3/2 program limit the student to three years of fencing?
I think the 4+1 program (which means a liberal arts degree from Haverford and a Master’s in Engineering from Penn) is very appealing. Since the student is leaning toward engineering but isn’t sure yet, it’d be a great set up - enough flexibility to explore the subject matter from pre reqs to intro classes (with pre-reqs completed in a broader setting, with cross registration possible at Swarthmore and Penn that offer engineering, in addition to BMC that offers all kinds of interesting classes) without having to go through the uncertainty of a difficult Master’s application process to an Ivy League university.
And since it’s D3, there’d be enough time to practice the sport AND be a STEM major.
I don’t know of any Engineering major who could also be a D1 athlete. I’m sure there are some, but it must be very very rare.
OP, are there other colleges you’re considering?
My daughter is concerned that much would ride in gaining admission into Penn’s Master’s program. She also is considering JHU and Penn State.