Hello - Newbies to the world of US colleges

Parent Cafe
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<p>Hello everyone! </p>

<p>What a great site this appears to be. I've already spent hours surfing through the hundreds of thousands of posts.</p>

<p>We are newcomers to the States (we're Canadians) and know very little about the process and protocol for seeking merit based aid, selecting schools, and the myriad of tools oout there to ensure our kids excel on their ACT/SAT.</p>

<p>We have a Sophmore next year as well as a sixth grader. Unfortunately we will be caught in the trap where there will be no need based financial aid coming our way...thankfully our sophmore appears to be on his way to at least some merit based funding.</p>

<p>I do have a few questions I'm hoping this well versed community can help us with:</p>

<p>1) We are seriously considering a company like College Planning Professionls here in Michigan because we know so little of the US system. Unfortunately much of what my wife and i have read on line suggests many of these companies are nothing more than multi-level marketers seeking to sell you insurance, etc and providing little value. Does anyone know of College Planning Professionals? Can this community recommend a very reputable organization to partner with? We know we will not have the personal time to invest in doing it all ourselves and are concerned as to how we can find the best choices from over 6000 universities across the states?</p>

<p>2) Are there any Canadian citizens on this site who are permanent residents here in the US and considering sending their kids to a Canadian Univ? How does the process differ and are there real savings?</p>

<p>That's all we have for now. No doubt, i'll be back with more "newbie" questions.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance!</p>

<p>Barry</p>

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<p>Welcome! Native Albertan here! I would suggest speaking w/your HS guid counselor, seeing when a “college planning” information session might be forthcoming. They give good deadlines and main things to consider. Also have your soph get into the process too by going to the library. Many books on the basics. I live in MI as well and think that your first start should be the HS, then families of classmates, perhaps co-workers and their experiences. Good luck!</p>

<p>T26E4 (from Medicine Hat!)</p>

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<p>You have time to learn more about the college system before your child starts the application process. Does your child know what they want to major in? Are they planning to go to grad school? Once you figure that out then you can find schools that fit their interests. </p>

<p>I would think the process of applying to Canadian schools is fairly simple as every year we have several students going to McGill or University of Toronto.</p>

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<p>If your child doesn’t know what they want to do yet, I would look toward big schools that offer lots of majors. It will be easier for your child to switch majors if the school offers it. If engineering is a possibility, then make sure to apply to the engineering school first. It is easier to transfer out of engineering versus trying to transfer into engineering.</p>

<p>For merit scholarships, cast a wide net! The scholarships are becoming more competitive every year. Buy the ACT/SAT test books and have them take the sample tests. Some schools will superscore the tests (take the highest score from different tests) and some will even superscore the SAT and ACT.</p>

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<p>As a previous poster said, the high school guidance department is a good place to start. They likely won’t guide you to specific paid resources (or they shouldn’t) but can give you pointers, and steer you away from dead ends.</p>

<p>Things to think about:

  • If cost is important, you probably can’t do early decision. You will need to apply to a number of schools and compare the offers. List price isn’t really too relevant, but comparing the offers are, especially if getting merit aid.
  • Canada has some excellent institutions, sounds like you should consider them in the mix.
  • Often schools are looking for diversity. If applying locally you might decide to be from Canada. You might also look outside of your local area to find a school looking to increase their diversity.
  • Decide what you are looking for. A strong learning community, professors who want to teach, ability to get into graduate school might favor small liberal arts. The desire for a specific professional program or career outcome might favor a large university. The school’s culture might trump objective measures.
  • Visit some schools early even if you don’t plan to apply. Find a local liberal arts, a local university etc and tour/visit/attend open house to start your thinking process. The schools encourage it.
  • Have your student start thinking about what it is like to live on campus. Do they understand what a greek system is? What is it like to be active in sports in a major university? In a small school? Many kids that age are turned off by “party schools” and heavy drinking. College success may be as dependent on the culture of the school as the reputation of a department.</p>

<p>Just some thoughts. Talk to the HS guidance councilor, visit schools, talk to the school’s admissions staff. Especially at the better schools, the admissions staff won’t put on a hard sell, but instead help you formulate your questions as you begin your process.</p>

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<p>I would not spend a dime on any sort of paid service, since everything you need to know is available on the internet or through your HS guidance office, and very often, those services are of little value. There are also a lot of scammers out their who prey on parents’ anxieties.</p>

<p>Sophomore year is when many high schools start college guidance. There may be a parent session in the fall describing the process of taking the PSAT (he’ll take it for practice this year–his scores won’t count, but you will know what he needs to work on), then later in the year, a session on the college search process. Go to these and talk to parents who have been though it before. Start a folder for the relevant information.</p>

<p>You’ll get a lot of junk and noise at the beginning (mail from colleges you’ve never heard of, tutoring services, etc.), and this might make you panic, but eventually, a clear picture of what your son needs to do will emerge.</p>

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<p>I think that you can find everything you need right here, for free. I would consider scheduling an appointment with your HS GC, explaining that as Canadians you need an intro to the scene. Since you live in Michigan, your D <em>may</em> be instate for the University of Michigan and Michigan State, both of which are superior public choices, especially the former. (Not sure how the Canadian citizenship affects this.) The GC can give you an idea of the kind of stats and curriculum your D would need to attend them. Be aware that GCs range from people who are knowledgeable about a broad range of schools, to people who can only imagine shoveling kids into directional Us and local colleges.</p>

<p>First, you probably need to determine what type of student your D is. Is she intellectually inclined? Was she an outstanding student in Canada? Do you anticipate that she will be drawn to a rigorous school? If so, one thing you need to do NOW is make sure that she is placed in classes that will enable the GC to check off the “most rigorous” box on the Common Application. If she is placed below her capabilities, it may be impossible for her to make up this ground in the short time she has left. (This is important not only for admissions, but for her general educational experience, of course.)</p>

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<p>Welcome, Barry.</p>

<p>I honestly think you would do better just reading here, and buying the following three books (all of which were recommendations from other parents here, which I purchased on Amazon):</p>

<p>College Solution, 2nd Edition: A Guide for Everyone Looking for the Right School at the Right Price, Lynn O’Shaughnessy </p>

<p>Fiske Guide to Getting Into the Right College: Edward Fiske and Bruce G. Hammond </p>

<p>Right College, Right Price, Frank Palmasani</p>

<p>I’m in the process now and happy to share what I have learned so far as I uncover it, and the people here are a great wealth of information. We are currently slogging through potential colleges for the budding Linguistics, Foreign Languages, or Classics major, researching everything.</p>

<p>Can I ask a question? Is there any insider information you can tell me about the Canadian Universities? She’s considering McGill, UBC, and UT, possibly.</p>

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<p>Although it is designed for students who are outside the US, you may find it useful to read through the information at [EducationUSA</a> | Study Abroad, Student Visa, University Fairs, College Applications and Study in the U.S. / America](<a href=“http://www.educationusa.state.gov%5DEducationUSA”>http://www.educationusa.state.gov) </p>

<p>If your children do not have green cards before they apply to college, they will be considered international applicants for financial aid purposes. Getting straight with yourself, your spouse, any other adults who will be helping to pay, and with your kids about the money is absolutely critical. If you determine that the US colleges and universities are out of your price range, there is nothing wrong with telling the kids that they need to apply to places in Canada. I know plenty of Canadian parents who have done just that.</p>

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<p>Welcome.</p>

<p>If you have permanent resident alien status (a.k.a. a Green Card) and live in the state of Michigan, your children will be considered Michigan residents by the University of Michigan. This is a truly outstanding and well-rounded public university, with top 5 or top 10 programs in many fields, and top 20 or top 25 programs in almost any field imaginable. It’s as good as, or better than, the top universities in Canada (McGill, U Toronto, and UBC). In-state tuition is reasonably priced, and the university’s financial aid policy is to meet full need for all Michigan residents. Consequently, most Michigan residents find this is a tough deal to beat, considering both quality and price. The challenge, naturally, is getting in. Most Michigan residents ranking in the top 10% of their HS class will be admitted, assuming they have grades and standardized test scores commensurate with that class rank. Next-best school in the state is probably Michigan State, where admission standards aren’t quite as high (and, unfortunately, need-based financial aid is not as good, though they will offer some big merit scholarships to attract a share of the top students).</p>

<p>If you don’t have a Green Card, the university’s current policy is to treat you as a non-resident, which means much higher tuition coupled with, at this point, not as good financial aid (though there is talk that the university may try to raise enough money to meet 100% of need for all its students, Michigan residents and non-residents alike). If you’re not considered a Michigan resident, your dependent child won’t be, either. In that case, you might well want to consider Canadian universities, which are generally cheaper even for U.S. citizens than a school like the University of Michigan would be for a non-resident. </p>

<p>Some people opt for private colleges and universities, the main benefit of which is smaller class sizes (though the difference is often greatly exaggerated; research universities, public and private, generally have more large classes than smaller liberal arts colleges, and the research university-v-liberal arts college distinction is much more important in this regard than the public-v.-private research university distinction). Private colleges and universities usually have a higher nominal cost, but the wealthiest of them also have generous financial aid policies, so depending on one’s income bracket and the particulars of the financial aid policy, many people find it costs the same or less to attend a private college or university. Each college or university now has an interactive Net Price Calculator on its website which will give you an estimate of the net cost of attendance after financial aid, based on information you supply about your income and assets and your student’s grades, test scores, etc. (some of which you may not have yet, but you can supply hypothetical figures and see what it tells you). It’s a handy tool, worth getting to know, and it can be invaluable in your college search.</p>

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<p>Am I correct in assuming this means your income and assets are such that you’ll be full-pays anywhere, absent merit scholarships? </p>

<p>If so, that actually simplifies things quite a bit. Then the only financial considerations are sticker price and merit aid. Numerous threads on College Confidential have discussed which schools give the most generous merit aid. It won’t be the Ivy League schools or many others among the most selective private colleges and universities; their policy is generally to give only need-based aid (or, in some cases, to give only a few token merit awards). But just a notch down from there, many private colleges and universities do give substantial amounts of merit aid. Again the net price calculators are your best guide.</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>Check the University of Michigan and Michigan State websites for your kids’ eligibility for resident tuition. It will depend on their immigration status. </p></li>
<li><p>For Canadian universities, I think Canadian citizenship gives them one level of tuition, and in some cases residency would get them a further discount. But just being Canadian citizens would mean that at Toronto or McGill, say, their tuition and fees would be pretty similar to what they would pay at Michigan as Michigan residents.</p></li>
<li><p>That gives you some pretty darn nice, fairly affordable options. You may do better with merit aid; your kids may prefer colleges with fewer than a zillion undergraduates; but if the worst that can happen to them is they have to go to Toronto as Canadian students, that’s a really nice safety net as far as I am concerned.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Definitely do not pay for college info. Do go to any parents/colleges nights at your HS. You can ask the HS guidance office what they have for parents and students when school begins in the fall. Check the colleges section of your local public library, ask the reference librarian for help as well. You have plenty of time to learn the ropes.</p>

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<p>

Oh, Canada. ;)</p>

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<p>Wow! We are so appreciative of the incredible welcome. I cant believe I’ve had 10 replies since this am. Thank you all!!</p>

<p>I will try and answer all of you in order:</p>

<p>Medicine Hat - thanks for the advice. Already pinging our neighbour who knows the ins and out of the system well. We will definitely meet with our son’s GC in the fall. Hope you’re loving MI as much as we do. Truly a wonderful state. PS I added that “u” to neighbour just for you!</p>

<p>NYCVA 1 - I went to U of T and can tell you the Canadian application system for undergrad is so much simpler. And if we were Cdn residents still…so much less expensive. My son loves Montreal and we have a lot a family there, so McGill and Concordia are definitely on the short list out of state</p>

<p>MTnest - He is very strong in Math and at this point (Freshman-Sophmore) wants to go into engineering. We will definitely be practicing a lot for the SAT’s and buying all the books recommended here!</p>

<p>maffdad - cost is always an issue. To think I’ve been boasting to all my Canadian friends about my new income tax rates…that is until i braced myself for 8+ straight years of undergrad university staring me in the face :0. I’m plenty humble now!! The diversity strategy is an interesting one…however being from three hours east of here and now a US permanent resident negates a lot of that, I suspect.</p>

<p>massmom - your advice about not paying for help seems to be universal. It seems the only ones who say “pay” are those mysterious “single posters”! The junk is starting to arrive in the mail already. Thanks for preparing us for the onslaught!</p>

<p>consolation - you are right about U-M and MSU. We also have a really excellent school - Oakland University - right next door to us. We need to check out their engineering programs further, though. The thing that’s causing pause for me with the public schools is minimal merit based scholarships. I have so much research yet to do. Thankfully it sounds like we have some time to get “educated”. </p>

<p>tranquilmind - THANK YOU for the reading suggestions!!! I have to go by Barnes and Noble tonight. If they aren’t there, they’ll be purchased on Amazon before I hit the pillow!</p>

<p>happymomof1 - thankfully the whole family are green card holders. One of my negotiated conditions a few years back when I moved from one of the fastest growing economies in North America (Toronto) to the greater Detroit area! </p>

<p>bclintonk - excellent information. Thank you!!! Unfortunately no need based money is on its way. I did the calculation here and was shocked at what my personal contribution per nine months should be. OMG. Merit based will be what I can hope …and pray…for!!</p>

<p>JHS - I think you are right about Cdn citizenship helping somewhat back in Canada. However it won’t be @ the resident discount. Unless of course my kids are dual citizens by then. </p>

<p>Thank you all once again…I’m already breathing a little easier!</p>

<p>Barry</p>

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<p>wis75 - thanks!!!</p>

<p>Niquii77 - technically that would be… Oh Canada, “eh”. ;)</p>

<p>Thx!</p>

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<p>Niquii77 - and thanks for not saying…“oh no…not another one from the great white north”!!!</p>

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<p>Another expat Canadian (and dual US citizen here). Our daughter just finished her first year at Big State U. Some things our family didn’t understand well enough before the college application process is the importance of extracurricular activities (“ECs”) in the application process at selective US colleges and universities. In Canada it’s pretty much just all about grades, eh? DD had top-2% grades and test scores so we thought she had a good shot at selective schools. Not so … probably because she didn’t have anything else distinctive to recommend her.</p>

<p>If your rising sophomore is an excellent student then it’s likely that in junior or senior year (according to local custom) he or she will be invited to apply to join the National Honor Society (NHS). The application will involve submitting details of volunteer service the student has done in the community. This took our family completely by surprise. It turned our DD’s peers had been carefully accumulating service hours, while we were unaware. As it happened, DD had done enough service, mostly through church related outreach projects, to qualify, but it certainly wasn’t planned.</p>

<p>Big State U is working out great for DD, and is very affordable, so we’re not unhappy. However, it would have been better if we’d understood the whole US college application process better, before hand. Read here and get with the school GC!</p>

<p>Finally - unless your employer has above average benefits and your family is very healthy, you’ll probably find those tax savings look less impressive when you subtract your healthcare expenditures.</p>

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<p>weatherga - thankfully we have good medical benefits though work…however even with that said, we had some very hefty bills a couple of years ago due to some family “health hiccups”. Yes…the college savings plan for both kids took a hit! </p>

<p>The volunteer/leadership skills are one area I’m also concerned about. My son is on the varsity alpine ski team and his goal for Sr year is to be captain, but he needs to focus on volunteering and giving back to the community (for many more reason than just the admission process, I might add). I was not at all aware of NHS. Hopefully that will be a motivator. If not mom and dad “WILL BE” the motivator!</p>

<p>Did your daughter consider going north?</p>

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<p>OK, so you’re a permanent resident alien residing in Michigan. That means your son will be considered a Michigan resident by the University of Michigan, making him eligible for in-state tuition. In-state cost-of-attendance (tuition, room & board, books, and personal/miscellaneous expenses) is now about $26,000. That means a private college or university would need to come up with $30,000 or more in merit aid to be financially competitive. Such awards are not unheard-of, but they are pretty rare unless you’re willing to trade down in quality.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that the University of Michigan does also give some merit awards. In fact, according to their common data set, they gave out about $47 million in institutionally-funded merit awards last year–more than any other Big Ten school.</p>

<p>If your son has top stats, however, he might also get a very competitive merit award from Michigan State.</p>

<p>But I think the University of Michigan is the one to beat.</p>