Help building a list of reaches [NC resident, 3.5?, 32, pre-med/dental]

Parents Forum
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Hello there!

This is going to be my third round of college apps in 3 years (2022 grad, 2023 grad, upcoming 2024 grad) but after that I will be done. Each of my kids had their own circumstances, so even though I have been through 2 cycles in a row I cannot say that I know what I am doing or that I think I know what to do next year. My two older kids each got into one of their reaches and, even though it was not their #1 reach choice, they are great schools, so for that, I am super grateful. My son is having a hard time deciding on reaches. We live in NC and have three amazing schools within a 25 minute drive - Duke, UNC Chapel Hill, and NC State. My older 2 EDā€™d to Duke but we knew chances were slim (their dad works there but that does not give a boost, but we do enjoy a tuition benefit if they get there and even if they donā€™t we still get 75% of that tuition benefit for out of state public schools or either in state or out of state private schools). Here is his background:

  1. We are half middle eastern - half Ethiopian (we identify as half white - other for the Middle Eastern half and half African - other - for the Ethiopian half)
  2. Varsity soccer team captain for last two years - will have played all four years varsity.
  3. He has ADD and I donā€™t know how much into this he should get into it on his application because it may hurt him but could also explain his poor performance Freshman and half of sophomore year. He was diagnosed at the end of his first semester sophomore year - everything turned around when he got the right support.
  4. GPA: right now it is 3.73 weighted - freshman year was 3.1, sophomore year was 3.5, Junior year is 4.6
  5. Challenging classes - will have completed 8 APs including calculus, APUSH, bio and chem, and 5 honor classes by graduation.
  6. Official ACT is at a 32 right now but he is being tutored and is practice testing at a 34.
  7. Has worked for last two years 3 hours 3 times a week during soccer season, and then 3 hours 5 days a week off season.
  8. Has clocked in over 200 hours volunteer.
  9. Will have very very strong recommendations from at least 2 teachers who can vouch for his upward progression and trend.
  10. He is a math and science guy all the way so strong STEM schools would be good - most likely medical / dental field.
  11. Would like to stick to the east coast unless there is a compelling reason not to.

We are good on safeties and targets nearby but other than Duke which I think would be a waste of an ED and he will not ED to- can I have some help / suggestions for ED1 and ED2 reaches that would consider the upward trend and likely very strong letters that will likely tell the story of his ADD and the fact that he has currently at the top of his class though overall is not due to first 1.5 years performance? These are reaches so I know who he is competing with no need to remind me!

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The first thing that comes to mind are your in-state universities. You of course know these better than I do.

The second thing that comes to mind is that universities in Canada will not care about freshman year at all (assuming that your son passed). Generally admissions to universities in Canada is very much stats based, and is based on your most recent two years. I know strong students who got in based on their sophomore and junior year of high school (even with a bad freshman year in one case). However, I have also heard that it is possible to get in based on strong junior and senior years of high school, with there being a risk of the acceptance coming somewhat late. I have also known a few people who were accepted after sending in their mid-term grades senior year. The issue would be whether you would want to go that far (it is far closer for us because we live in the northeast of the US). McGill is of course strong for STEM, as are multiple other schools in Canada.

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Emory popped in my head. Virginia Tech?

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Emory popped in my head too - his sister will be going there next year and got in there regular decision after EDing to Duke. Va-Tech might be good but I donā€™t consider it a reach unless he is engineering - which he is not - he is hoping for a medical career.

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I never considered Canada in all honesty - but would not rule it out if it is on the eastern side.

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I believe Emory also recomputes GPA without freshman grades, which would be a plus for your son!

ETA: CMU could be another to look at in this category. Since he wants math/science but not engineering/CS, it could be an attainable reach if it appeals.

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Thank you! I will add CMU to the list, definitely looks like somewhere he would love to be!

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If you visit CMU, it could be worth checking out Pitt too. I donā€™t know if there would be a reason to choose it over his excellent in-state options, but the tuition benefit is a great equalizer, and Pitt is great for STEM/pre-health (and there are cross-registration opportunities with CMU). Admissions are rolling, so applying in August can mean an early acceptance in the pocket.

Have you and he considered CWRU? Top-notch for STEM/pre-health, and great flexibility to explore-change majors. They care a lot about demonstrated interest, so make sure to open every email, click every link, and otherwise take every opportunity to engage, if interested. They have both a med school and a dental school, so itā€™s a good place for shadowing opportunities, etc. (Same is true of Pitt.)

Would he like a co-op school? Many traditional schools have co-op options, of course, but Iā€™m also thinking of Northeastern. Heā€™s the kind of student who might get into one of the alternate-entry programs that keep slightly weaker stats out of the reported pool - would a first-year-abroad type program appeal to him?

Iā€™m taking it that heā€™s not a DIII soccer prospect, or you wouldā€™ve led with that, correct?

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I was thinking of Northeastern too! Iā€™m an incoming frosh at NEU this fall, and while the Co-op program is one of the main draws for everyone coming to/attending NEU- they have wonderful global opportunities as well. The student population is 15,000 (undergrads)- but itā€™s a wonderful place- situated in Boston and near BU and Tufts. It is pretty expensiveā€¦ cough like, 80k/year expensive, but if youā€™re NMF, Torch Scholar, or Stamps Scholar you typically get good merit- Global Scholars + NU.in kids have also gotten decent merit, from what Iā€™ve heard.

They also have a great premed/prehealth program- Iā€™m also premed.

if you want to look into it and need more info- Iā€™m always around, just shoot me a PM. /warmly

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Unweighted GPA?

Cost constraints?

Be aware that admission to medical school starts with a high college GPA and high MCAT score, but it needs a lot more than that. Medical and dental school are also very expensive (although ECU medical school is somewhat less so for NC residents, if one manages to get in ā€“ all medical schools should be considered reaches).

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Yes, can you start with an unweighted GPA. Simply 4.0 for A, 3.0 for Bs, etc.

If heā€™s 3.73 weighted - and we donā€™t know the weighting system - so iā€™m guessing a 3.3 or 3.4 tops with 8 APs. The most common weighting system seems to be +.5 for Honors and +1 for AP - but that doesnā€™t mean that you are using it.

But if heā€™s a 3.3 or 3.4 and 32, I think the Dukes and anything remotely like it are beyond reach.

Part of the issue is - we donā€™t know what he likes. You want names - but it would help to know - does he want small, mid size like Duke, or larger like UNC, etc. So Iā€™ll give you some names but I have no clue if theyā€™re in the realm of what would interest him.

For a reach, and that means a rejection (and it wonā€™t matter 32 or 34), Iā€™d say a U of Miami, William & Mary, Case Western, Wake Forest, Richmond. Brandeis if he likes small. And W&L, Davidson if he likes very small.

For large publics, a Georgia, UMD, UF. Even a U of SC will be tough.

This is my bigger concern:

Can I have some help / suggestions for ED1 and ED2?

He should find the schools that are the right fit - not just the ā€œhigh level namesā€ - like the Dukes of the worldā€¦just because they are Duke. You want him to be comfortable where he is. But a school like Miami might be worth of an ED.

Anyway, I gave you some names - but itā€™d be much better if we knew about the environment you seek - and not just ā€œeast coastā€ and STEMā€¦for example size, urban/rural, big sports or not, etc.

Thanks

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Deleted commentary. Was question about overall rank, answered below.

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This isnā€™t the complete answer but gives you a sense.

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Va Tech has a high admit rate but 80% had an unweighted gpa of 3.75+ per the CDS.

We need to know yours but itā€™s less within 8 APs.

So statistically, itā€™s a reach.

The letter and Iā€™ve conquered ADD - I may be wrong. Iā€™m not an admin but Iā€™d say itā€™s a reach, even with the high admit rate.

Emory I get as supposedly they discount first year.

I may be the contrarian here but I think your situation will be a lot more challenging than you think.

Of course I hope Iā€™m wrong.

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Honestly, prestige seems to be very important to him but so is proximity to home. I donā€™t think a big school would be a good fit and could be overwhelming since he is used to being in small environments and likes to have a one to one relationship with his teachers. He would love to stay close to home but UNC-CH has become very difficult to get in even in state and do not really assess students holistically. He will not be in the top 10% of his class and is probably about 3.5 unweighted so UNC-CH is probably not going to happen - his siblings were both waitlisted and had better GPA stats but not better ACT (one got in second year as a transfer to UNC-CH, my daughter was accepted and will attend Emory instead). UNC-CH is probably not a good fit anyways - too big and no ED. I think Richmond could be a really really good fit for him since it is smaller so maybe for ED2 if it has that option.

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I hope so too, but this is a reach list - so we are willing to take that gamble and up the chances as much as possible by not over-reaching and doing ED.

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If you could calculate his unweighted it would help. I know you said ā€˜about a 3.5ā€™. But precise would be better and itā€™s easy to do.

4 for an A, 3 for a B, etc. add up the total, divide by # of credits and boom.

Not sure how the money works but if he likes Richmond, check a Bucknell, Lafayette, Franklin & Marshall, Connecticut, etc. They are reaches but a notch below a W&L, Davidson.

For bigger, Rochester, Case Western, Tufts.

Sound like a BU, NEU will be too big.

I think Miami is a reach and itā€™s lower in selectivity/rank than many I mentioned but perhaps would be a nice fit.

Heā€™s planning on dental school - fit matters. Prestige doesnā€™t. Period. End of story.
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Good luck.

I hope he has true targets and safeties but I wonder if your entire scale has been moved up a notch ??

The test score - you can check common data set ā€¦but at most wonā€™t overcome the gpa.

Best of luck.

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The sticker price isnā€™t a big issue for this family, as the OP notes that the father works at Duke and is eligible for a significant tuition benefit that can be applied to other private schools as well as OOS publics.

The trickier part is getting schools to look past the studentā€™s lower GPA in early high school. But this is where the various workarounds that Northeastern employs to accept students they want without counting their stats in the admitted student averages could work in his favor, if heā€™s open to the alternate-entry options.

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I think a prestige reach may not get this student to a good fit. He sounds like an CC ā€œaverage excellentā€ kid.
A reach that seems more like a fit might be be BSMD or DDS at Virginia Commonwealth or Pitt Medicine, GAP, or Juniata/ LECOM DO, or maybe Rhodes. Or Quinnipiac and Health Sciences.

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I think for safeties we have UNC-Charlotte and UNC-Greensboro and Elon. I think for target maybe maybe NC state? I went to Case Western for Grad School - it is soooo cut throat for the sciences - and I have heard horror stories about lower med and dental school acceptance rates from excellent students/ kids that we know who went there for pre-dental/pre-medical since we used to live in that area.

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