Need Help Picking High Reaches

College Search & Selection
1

Hi Everyone,

It’s been a while since I’ve been on here. We’ve been running around looking at colleges.

My daughter is a senior in High School. She has a bunch of colleges that we think are matches and safeties, and possibly low reaches, but she wants to pick a couple of high reaches.

I’m having trouble distinguishing between what might be a high reach and what’s just a pointless waste of the $100 application fee.

I think her GPA would be considered a 3.9. It’s around a 95 unweighted - I think she had 3 or 4 A-'s and the rest A’s, with 16 total core classes during her first 3 years of HS. She’s taken all Honors and I think around 6 AP’s including senior year.

She has a 1440 super score on the SAT. She ran track for her first 3 years, year round, and has some other minor EC’s, like Mu Alpha Theta, but not a whole lot of EC’s.

Some of the schools we’re considering matches or low reaches, might actually be high reaches given her limited EC’s. That’s one of the things I’m hoping people can chime in on.

Here are some of the schools she’s interested in. I know which ones are likely to be financial reaches, so let’s not get sidetracked by that. She knows that those schools are only a possibility if certain relatives decide to be super generous this time next year. We’ve talked about it at length, and she has her head on straight about this. She’s not going to be upset if the financial reaches don’t pan out. She doesn’t plan on applying to all of the schools I’m listing below. They’re just schools that are still on her list.

Here are some of the schools:

Matches and Low Reaches(I think)
Binghamton
Geneseo
Quinnipiac
University Of South Carolina, Columbia
University Of Maryland
Marist
Clemson
University Of Miami
Tulane
Southern Methodist University
Union College

Mid/High Reaches
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
Boston College
Villanova
University Of Richmond
Wake Forest

It seems like Boston College is probably the highest reach of all of the schools I’ve listed.
I’m wondering what other schools might be that reachy or maybe a little more so, without
being a total waste of time. For example, I’d like her to look at William and Mary, but with her
limited EC’s, is that a waste of time? Are all of the schools I’ve listed as Mid/High Reaches
above a total waste of time?

Some other schools that I think are probably pointless, but wondering what people think:
Notre Dame
Colby
University Of Virginia

If anyone can think of any others that would be good high reaches, I’d love to hear them.

Thanks,
WalknOnEggShells

2

Your daughter’s tentative academic interests?

ECs can be a factor, but she seems to be fully academically qualified for essentially all of your listed schools.

3

Don’t be paralyzed by fear of missing out. I count 18 schools, not including your 3 maybes. Time to trim, not add.

If you really want to add, try the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ find similar colleges tool. But truly, you have a lot of work ahead of you just to apply to your current list.

4

Thanks for the feedback, merc81. She’s still not sure, but she’s considering Business, Math, and Computer Science.

5

I also forgot to mention the types of schools she likes. She’s a fairly conservative kid, and she thinks she wants a school where athletics are big. So ultra-liberal schools are probably out.

6

I’m a bit confused. Is 1440 SAT on a 1600 point basis? And her GPA is 3.9? And she takes AP and Honors classes mostly?

If that is the case, is the only concern about the “high reach” schools that she has not that many or maybe not strong ECs?

Have you used the College Board’s College Match tool to see where she fits in terms of her SAT and GPA? I found that pretty useful, at least after I got a set of colleges for my son, I could go through and check SAT scors and GPAs. At the very least, you can select “Print College Profile” after creating a list or doing a search, and then scroll to near the bottom to see the test scores and GPAs.

For example, I picked Boston College, and found this:
Percent who submitted SAT scores : 61.0% and Percent who submitted ACT scores : 52.0%
Test Subjects

Middle 50% of First-Year Students

New SAT Math 660 - 760
New SAT Evidence Based Reading & Writing 680 - 750
ACT Composite 30 - 33

If your daughter has 1440, let’s assume she had 720/720 - that puts her pretty much in the middle 50% of students at Boston College!

I also see that this is what is important to them:
Academic GPA
Rigor of secondary school record
Standardized Test Scores

All three of these seem on target for your daughter. My son is looking at William & Mary, and they have quite a few Very Important:
Academic GPA
Application Essay
Character/Personal Qualities
Class Rank
Extracurricular Activities
Recommendations
Rigor of secondary school record
Standardized Test Scores
State Residency
Talent/Ability
Volunteer Work
Work Experience

Now, W&M also has a “Considered” list but Boston College has an “Important” (but not Very Important) list and a “Considered” list.

I think that info will help her or you figure out which colleges are a better fit. Boston College doesn’t seem like a high reach to me, but remember, if you are looking for 100% chance, those schools need to be quite a bit below your child’s stats.

I also used Parchment to give me a list of expected probabilities of admission for my eldest son:
www.parchment.com

Click on “Learners” and “My Admission Chances”.

I apologize if you’ve done all that already, but I’m seeing BC as a good match (not 100% chance but good match) for your daughter. She shouldn’t shut herself out of reaches IMHO.

7

@AroundHere, she is trimming. She’s stressed out that she has too many schools. But she ends up liking a small percentage of the schools we visit, so I expect her match list to whittle down to 5 or 6.

Of all the schools I listed as reaches, she only wants to apply to 4 or 5. What she feels she’s missing, is a couple of high reaches. That’s what we can’t figure out. Is Notre Dame a high reach, or a pipe dream? Or both, because that’s what a high reach is supposed to be?

Thanks for the suggestion about ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■. I’ve never been on that site.

8

PS - you don’t have to use real info on Parchment! So don’t worry about that aspect.

I’ve been born on January 1st of the decade I was born in many, many times.

9

It literally just took me the time between posts to sign him up and find that his chances at W&M are 65%, whereas their overall admission rate is 33%. Pretty cool! (YMMV, not sure if it was true of not). My eldest was predicted at 74.4% admission chance for where he is now, that college has 37% for average admission rate.

My thoughts have been the following:

  • match is a college that you have the same admission chance as everyone
  • reach you have less than average chance as everyone

I put Olin College in for my S18, and he got 24% chance, but the average admission rate is only 11%. So yeah, maybe it would be a waste of money to apply there, but even so, it’s better than average.

10

For a unhooked applicant, profiling in the mid-50% makes schools with a 25% or lower acceptance rate a reach.

For schools with those acceptances rates (25% or below), best to focus on those where the student profiles in the top 25% as an achievable match, unless the school’s acceptance rate is below 15% and then it’s a reach for even those with perfect stats.

11

Thanks @rhandco. I haven’t used the collegeboard’s tool, or Parchment. I’ve been getting that information from other sources, but I’m going to check them out.

Yes, the EC’s are what’s making me think that she has to be way at the top of the stats range for some of these schools to have a chance.

I don’t want her to miss out, but I don’t want her wasting time on a bunch of schools that are just going to reject her in the end anyway. It’s tough to figure out. That’s why we’re trying to identify just a couple of high reaches that aren’t a complete waste of time.

12

Business makes for an interesting criterion in this context, in that many typically high reach schools do not offer business as an undergraduate major. Partly for this reason, her current list (however tentative) already may indicate a good direction for her.

13

Thanks @Chembiodad. Most of the schools I have down as reaches have acceptance rates around 30%, I think. We’ve been targeting schools where she would be in the top 25% or close to that.

But for schools like William and Mary and Notre Dame, she’s a little below the average. I’m thinking that she doesn’t have much of a shot at those types of schools, especially with her limited EC’s.

14

@merc81, that’s a good point. I love Union College, and I think it would be a good fit for her, but they have a very limited number of business courses, and you have to take them at another school. I think Lafayette has a limited number of business courses, too. She’s thinking of Business more as a minor. I forgot to mention that.

Personally, I think it’s ridiculous that the elite colleges don’t offer Business courses - as if there’s something anti-intellectual about learning Accounting - something that the entire world operates on. I know some schools offer some Business courses in the Economics department, but it’s like they’re hiding them there, ashamed that they’re offering something so low brow, so practical - subjects that are good for immigrants and worker bees. Not elite intellectuals.

15

@WalknOnEggShells :

I like your points, at least partly because they introduce an element of controversy into the topic.

In terms of counterpoints, I might suggest a few:

  1. Subjects such as accounting can be pretty standardized and therefore might not benefit from instruction by economics PhDs who might be engaged at the leading edge of research in their fields. These professors will nontheless recognize the importance of accounting (and will probably have taken it themselves), and will be likely to suggest that their pre-business students learn its fundamentals (perhaps at community colleges during the summer if not available on the home campus).

  2. Can business as a general topic be most efficiently taught on any campus? Internships and work experience may be at least equally well-suited to this. Both approaches may be good of course.

  3. Topics in finance as well as some accounting will indeed be commonly offered through economics departments.

The above noted, if your daughter pictures herself in a business program (as a major or minor), I think this opportunity should be kept open in her colleges choices.

How about Skidmore?

16

A 3.9 and a 1440 are very strong stats. I actually think some of the schools you list as High reaches like Lafayette, Lehigh, Bucknell and Villanova are matches as long as your high school is considered strong. Doesn’t mean they are sure things, but should have a good shot at those

17

And as for your ‘high reach’ question, ND may be one where you would be throwing away $100 bucks, but Colby could be a more reasonable high reach

18

An economics degree from a top LAC isn’t viewed any differently than a business degree from a similarly ranked university - investment banking is full of LAC grads.

19

@merc81, that’s a good point about Accounting not being an area that Economics researchers would be interested in. But the fact that a subject isn’t a topic of research doesn’t make it something that’s not worthwhile for college students to learn(I know you’re not saying that). I’ve never taken a single Accounting course, but I wish I did take a few in college. If you work in the business world, it helps to be conversant in the language of Accounting.

I know what you’re saying about Accounting being standardized, but standardized doesn’t necessarily mean simple. Apparently, it gets pretty difficult as you get into the more advanced courses. If something requires serious study, and has practical applications in the real world, why wouldn’t schools offer it? Many schools do, of course, but it seems like Liberal Arts colleges go out of there way to not offer Business, because they view it as technical training. I just don’t get it. Computer Science is just as technical and just as applied, but almost all of the LACs offer CS.

The difference, I guess, is that CS has a big theoretical component. But why should the amount of theory involved dictate whether a major is offered? You send your kids to college to learn about the world and get prepared to enter the workforce. It’s crazy that a kid can be at a prestigious school that costs 65K - 70K per year and they can’t take Accounting 101. I just don’t see the point of that.

I had Skidmore on an early list of schools to visit with her, but from what I’ve read on here, it’s a pretty liberal school. Do you think that’s true? We should probably visit it, because it’s close, but based on her reaction to other schools with less liberal reputations, I think she’d feel out of place.

Most of the schools on her list have Business majors, and like you said, she could take courses at a Community College, but I’d like her to have the option of minoring in Business if she wants to. I still have to check Lafayette, but Union isn’t looking like a great option based on this. And I really like Union otherwise.

I appreciate your thoughts on the subject. I’m not trying to be argumentative about it, but I just thought I would lay out my thoughts on it.

20

@wisteria100, our High School isn’t considered one of the best in the state, but it’s strong.

Do you think those stats make those schools matches, even with limited EC’s?

I think you’re right about Notre Dame. I think it’s a waste, but I won’t stop her if she doesn’t mind doing the supplements.

I have to get her to look at Colby. I love that school on paper, but I’ve never been there.