<p>DD is interested in Stanford, Yale, Brown, Cornell, Syracuse, and Michigan. Leaning towards majoring in communications/journalism/english lit. She is a URM from the south and has excellent ECs, including TASP, volunteering at a shelter, and leadership positions in school (class President Freshman and Sophmore years). DD is guaranteed to be a National Achievement Scholar. Has taken all AP/Honors classes that she can take, and has a 3.9 (UW), 4.4 (W).</p>
<p>Her SAT scores are, however, lopsided: 800 (CR), 550 (M), 730 (W). She has taken the SAT twice and gotten the same score in math 550 (above W and CR scores are from April SAT - an improvement from December SAT). Results for SAT IIs (Lit., Spanish, U.S. History) are pending, but likely to be in the 750-800 range.</p>
<p>Does she have a chance at the schools mentioned above with these lopsided SAT scores? Would taking the SAT a third time be of benefit? If yes, can I do anything as a parent to help her improve in math?</p>
<p>I think she has so many reaches on there. That I don't see as many matches/safeties on their as there should be.</p>
<p>USC, Boston University I think would be good schools to add to the list.
Northwestern I would think would be the best school for what she wanted to do, however it is a reach.</p>
<p>Honestly the math score is killing her chances.</p>
<p>MSMDAD, search out the Xiggi method on the SAT prep forum. Xig has it down very well. I think he would tell you , based on my understanding of his techniques, that your D is approaching the math section incorrectly. I think he'd say that you can score 100 points higher than your daughter is scoring by ignoring all of the more difficult problems. PM Xig, or post on thread on that forum. He'll find you. ;)</p>
<p>And yes. Any kid scoring where your D is scoring on CR and W should be able to master some techniques to improve her math score. Good luck, and chin up. She'll get it.</p>
<p>My daughter's highest SAT math score was 590; she will be attending Barnard in the fall, after turning down admission offers from U. of Chicago, NYU and Berkeley.</p>
<p>My d. chose not to submit her SAT scores to the private colleges, submitting ACT instead. ACT in math wasn't any better - it was 23, which I think technically is about the same or worse - but it seems like the focus is more on the SAT composite than individual scores. </p>
<p>However, my d's other SAT scores were not as high either - your daughter's other scores are much better, so maybe you could stick with the SAT but reconsider the college list. LAC's are more likely to be foregiving on the math score. I would disagree about applying to Boston U -- BU waitlisted my daughter, and my sense is that BU is more numbers-driven. (Obviously this is just one case -- but my d's counselor tagged BU a "match" or "probable admit" and the schools that my d got into were all considered reaches - so there's probably something to it)</p>
<p>If I had it all to do over again, I'd encourage my daughter to spend less time, not more, focusing on the tests. It seems that testing & retesting was a big source of stress -- and in hindsight the smartest thing she did was find some reach colleges that were good fits and would look beyond the numbers at her other qualities. Your d. probably writes extremely well -- she would benefit from applying to schools that focus on essays and welcome supplemental submissions (such as additional writing samples).</p>
<p>Calmom, thanks for your reply. She will be taking the ACT in June. I must say that I really appreciate your comments about trying not to stress her out by retesting - it is a balancing act because I suspect that if she improves her math scores by just 100+ points, she will be able to get to her dream school. Curmudgeon, thanks - we will take a look at the Xiggi method.</p>
<p>Your D has a lot going for her, and with a somewhat higher math score, she would be competitive for the most selective schools and would qualify for merit money at schools that do offer it. Brown, Yale and Stanford do not, but she may qualify for need-based financial aid there.
I agree that Xiggi's method can really improve her math score. It's not necessarily a matter of knowing more math but knowing how to tackle the SAT: select the easier questions to answer and avoid some traps.</p>
<p>MSMDAD, Your daughter certainly has a LOT of good things going for her. I don't want to be discouraging as I think that her chance of getting into any of the schools on her list even with her current math score is within the realm of possibility.</p>
<p>What I would want to suggest is for her to offer some kind of explanation of the reason for her low math score. Since her UW average is 3.9 in AP/Honors classes, presumably she's taken more than a few math courses and done well. Why the discrepancy? Is she just a poor quantitative test taker or does she have whatever the math equivalent of dyslexia is called? I'd probe into this further and with the help of a math teacher be prepared to provide some background to the situation with her applications.</p>
<p>Do the schools on your daughter's list care so much about SATs that they would discount her other accomplishments? My guess is that Stanford, Michigan and Cornell are very numbers driven. Yale less so and Brown more unpredictable. </p>
<p>I'm not that familiar with Syracuse. Is that the school that she's using as a safety? </p>
<p>I would also suggest looking at some of the academically rigorous LACs. LACs have a tougher time recruiting academically qualified URMs and they tend to be more forgiving to idiosyncrasies in the statistical side of an applicants profile. Strength in the more subjective elements like essays and recommendations can compensate of weakness in scores. Id really second what Calmom says, but only if your daughter would consider LACs that take a more holistic approach to admissions. </p>
<p>Michigan, actually, prides itself on not being just numbers driven. My S had to write three very focused essays for that application. They also have a section where they ask about life experiences, situation, etc, which could have an effect on "numbers." I would be hugely surprised if she didn't get in there. It is definitely a match, if not a safety. Same with Syracuse. Even with the math score, that's a 1350/2080 SAT. Add that to stellar EC's, great GPA, and possibly great SAT 2's, plus URM status; I can't imagine them turning her down. I think she'd have a shot at the other schools, but I agree that finding a way to up the math or do ACT would help with them.</p>
<p>But I also suggest another look at her college choices, adding some schools which don't require test scores at all if she can find some which fit her. <a href="http://www.fairtest.org%5B/url%5D">http://www.fairtest.org</a>. Many are LACs which might not have the journalism/communications but would have strong English Lit.</p>
<p>Bates, Bowdoin, Holy Cross are a few on the list with which I am familiar.</p>
<p>What's the toughest math course she has taken? Does she have any opportunity where you live to have extracurricular involvement in math? (Most school math courses are TERRIBLE, and most of the strongest math kids learn much of their math outside of school.) My considered advice as a parent, who was stronger on the verbal side than the math side in my generation (but not that lopsided), is to bolster the math now while there is time, the better to have more future possibilities. </p>
<p>A really inexpensive and useful supplement to school math courses is the ALEKS </p>
<p>series of online courses. The Web site offers UNLIMITED forty-eight-hour free trials, so you can try out the courses at various levels to see where the gaps are. A good reader should be able to get through that course just fine by putting in the practice. There are quite a few summer courses in math designed exactly for high school students who need supplemental instruction--your local colleges in your town probably all have something that could help. </p>
<p>I don't expect a TASPer to have any trouble getting into college, but the college list probably does need to have a more sure safety floor. The reach colleges will very likely be more enjoyable if your child has more math background, and that is part of what motivates my comments. For what it's worth, I've been helping a first-born child who "naturally" is lopsided the other way pull up on the verbal side to match up with his math scores. All those skills are learnable, and he is more well-rounded now. Your daughter could learn quite a lot of math before the next SAT testing date. </p>
<p>As garland mentioned, I would tend to think of Syracuse as a safe match/safety. But I don't know if that would hold for its journalism school, which is so sought after.</p>
<p>My D - a non-URM from the South - is headed to Harvard this fall with a Math score 160 points below her CR and W. The keys for her were a strong talent about which she's passionate, strong scores on SAT subject tests (100 points higher on the Math subject test than SAT I Math for some reason), great recommendations, and essays on which she probably spent a total of 30 hours.</p>
<p>Hey guys, She's TASP, won't they cut her math score a little slack? My vote is a combo of the above - follow the Xiggi method, and try 1 retake, or alternatively take the ACT, although if her math grades are her worst grades, she may just not be a math person.
Secondly, add some solid safeties, which could be as simple as one school close to home, because I think she is probably in at UMich, and you will know that early on. What about the Univ of Missouri - don't they have a famous journalism school? I would also add some selected reach/matches - Amherst immediately comes to mind and Wellesley and Barnard if she can look objectively at womens' schools - I think Amherst would look very favorably on a Southern URM with an 800 critical reading and TASP under her belt.
Finally, have her approach an English or history teacher for mentoring with her essays. The essays should be her strong suit, and they should be knockout. I'm assuming her writing score is a result of the bent of her school - my DD is Southern, went to a strong school, 800 on the old SAT Verbal, but 740 on writing. Writing is just not emphasized at her school, except for DBQs for AP tests, and the SAT is not emphasized either - no writing on the ACT when she took it - I think overall, Southern kids' writing scores may be lower, because of the flavor of the education at their schools.</p>
<p>Good luck to her, I think she will have great success.</p>
<p>I don't understand why a candidate for a top school can't be exceptionally strong in the verbal/humanties area and less strong in math. We no longer look for "well rounded" students but students with a passion and expertise in one area, yet they still have to be academically well rounded? If the student is not applying as a math major, why should the math SAT score hurt her -- is it just the old "with so many qualified applicants, you shouldn't have anything on your app that gives them an excuse to reject you?"</p>
<p>My daughter also had somewhat lopsided SAT scores (verbal = 790, math = 650, SAT II writing = 800), and I always attributed her low math score to the fact that her school is on the 4 x 4 block scheduling, whereby she took most of her math classes for only one semester. (one semester of geometry, one semester of Algebra II, one semester of Advanced Math, etc.) Sometimes she went two semesters without any math courses simply due to scheduling difficulties. </p>
<p>I knew she was talented in math (even made a "5" on AP Calculus), but she only had a "smattering" of the basics that are tested on the SAT I. Students do get out of practice with even the most basic of math concepts, and it does seem to hurt them on standardized testing. By the way, her calculus was a year-long course.</p>
<p>Apparently, her lower SAT math score did not hurt her with college admissions at all. I think the high verbal and writing scores helped the adcom to overlook her math a little. Supposedly, it is harder to achieve an 800 on verbal than on math, and many students who score 800 on math would kill for a higher verbal score. Critical reading skills are vital to success in any college course.</p>
<p>And, cangel, writing was heavily emphasized in her southern high school. We live in NC, where standardized writing tests are given to 4th, 7th, and 10th graders each year. This seems to have made a huge difference in their being able to quickly organize their thoughts and to express them well on paper in a short time period for the SAT.</p>
<p>In this instance, I wouldn't consider NC, the South (primary ACT state). Writing does not seem to be emphasized in our schools or in our neighbors'. Standardized writing tests probably do greatly improve performance on the SAT, once writing is mandatory on the ACT, I think we will see more emphasis given to writing here, too. Now whether they learn good writing skills, or just formulaic skills is debatable.</p>
<p>My son, who is a high school senior, had lopsided scores -- Math was way higher than Verbal (and the low score also was reflected in Literature SAT II). His scores: Math 760 Verbal 680 Writing 720. He does not intend to major in math or sciences but is basically undecided -- perhaps this hurt him too. He was rejected at most of the Ivies he applied to but received acceptances at several highly ranked LACs. He also was accepted to Michigan/Honors and Cornell. Seems to me that the LACs looked beyond the scores. Just our experience.</p>