<p>I am a long time reader of CC - first time posting. Involved in a good dilema but a dilema none the less. </p>
<p>My son was waitlisted at a LAC that is ranked by USNWR in the top 25. He was accepted to a very nice school that is USNMWR ranked in the top 50 of LAC's. The school where he was accepted ( and deposited) gave him a very generous financial package (includng merit money) which made the school, from the money perspective, very attractive.</p>
<p>Now this waitlisted school has come forth and accepted him. His financial aid package is good. We are able to afford both schools. </p>
<p>My questions have to do with prestige and rankings etc... Is it important to go to and graduate from a school that is known to be more prestigious? To get into law school or other graduate programs is the reputation of your undergraduate school incredibly important? </p>
<p>My son was happy with his decision to attend "Accepted College" but now that a school that is perceived as more elite, stronger, and with a better perceived reputation has come forth he is unsure.</p>
<p>At "Accepted College" his stats place him in the top 25% of the accepted students ( per the comman data sets) while at "Waitlisted College" he is the 50% group but toward the top of the middle. In the long run will he outgrow "Accepted College" over four years?</p>
<p>I apologize for the many questions - I am rather confused as to which way to proceed. I guess my over riding question is - If two schools are affordable should the school that is considered more elite and ranked higher be the school to choose?</p>
<p>Without knowing the schools, I ask, did your DS actually LIKE the waitlist college more? Aside from grades, does he feel like he will fit in better at school A or school B. To be truthful, I am not so enamoured of ranking, so without knowing the strengths of each school, it is hard.
Re: where he will fall in the student body, is it important to him to be the start, or does he want to pressure of a strong student body to push him. I would rather be the worst among the best, but my DS prefers to be near the top.</p>
<p>Intended Major - History or Political Science with Economics as a minor</p>
<p>I do not want to name the specific schools - will a range help?</p>
<p>Accepted School is of this group: Dickinson, Gettysburg, Franklin & Marshall</p>
<p>Off Waitlist is of this group: Grinnell, Carleton, Macalester</p>
<p>Brief Stats on student = SAT - 1430 / 1600 - SATII’s - all 700+ - Top 5% of High School class - Varsity Athlete-Multiple Leadership roles - Many hours of volunteer work etc…</p>
<p>There’s no one answer to this, certainly not in the abstract let’s not name the college way you’ve posed it, but probably not even with the names. But if you gave us the names you would then get the list of this is what’s good about college A, this is what’s bad about college A, this is what’s good about college B, and this is what’s bad about college B. In general I tend to lean toward the bigger name, but I let my oldest choose Carnegie Mellon over Harvard (because he was interested in computer science and I knew he wouldn’t take advantage of what’s better about Harvard) and I let my younger son choose Tufts over Chicago (because he thought that he was probably more of a practical than theoretical sort of thinker). I think they are about 20 places apart in those silly rankings.</p>
<p>And if I am honest, it was a little disappointing not to be able to brag about my kid at Harvard, or Chicago. </p>
<p>As for how it worked out? For my oldest - he loved CMU, graduated last year and has a fabulous job. The youngest has taken advantage of all the opportunities Tufts offered (including a Christmas break research trip to Pakistan and India), but he’s still got two more years. No regrets about Chicago, but there are days when I wonder if he shouldn’t have attended his safety which is ranked about 30 places below the one he’s attending. </p>
<p>Unfortunately SAT scores and GPAs are a very poor way to predict how you’ll actually do at college x vs college y.</p>
<p>PS Saw the list - I agree very little difference in name recognition IMO. I think he should attend the place he likes the best for whatever set of reasons that might be.</p>
<p>My thoughts are that he can be at the top at the first schools and get more recognition from professors, possibly more opportunities for selective graduate school scholarships such as Rhodes, Fullbright etc. At the second set of schools he might have more intellectual peers and develop more lasting friendships. He might experience greater academic challenge. But this is just conjecture.</p>
<p>So you have a college that wants him–a lot–that he is excited about. It’s a great school and he is happy with the decision to accept its offer of admission. Now you have one that didn’t want him nearly as much but that is now saying, “okay, you can come.” </p>
<p>For me and my kid, it would be a no-brainer. I would stick with the plan you’ve got. The USNWR rankings system is flawed to say the least. You might read this:</p>
<p>Or potentially look at other rankings systems if they are important to you. I don’t think they are important to anyone else, though, when you are talking about schools that are both fairly well known and respected. You could look at the outcomes for students at both in terms of PhD acceptance, law/med school admissions, jobs after graduation, or whatever else you can dig up. Higher rankings do not necessarily correlate to better results in these categories. For example, there is a current thread on the “Colleges that Change Lives” list that discusses this at length. Some of the smaller, less-known schools stand out in terms of undergraduate research opportunities, acceptance into PhD programs, and so on.</p>
<p>Also, the issue of where your child falls in the range of accepted students is not that big a distinction in this case. Both of these are good schools with bright kids. The one thing I’d worry about with the higher-ranked school is that, having more competitive admissions, it might attract more competitive kids. Some students thrive on competition, while others don’t. For my child, feeling “wanted” was a big factor, and the schools that were most generous with merit aid and reached out to him the most were the ones that held his interest.</p>
<p>Your accepted-school list are schools that draw primarily from their region and won’t serve him well if he leaves that geographic area. To put it bluntly, they are unknown outside their home geographies. Your waitlist list are schools that draw from all over the nation and have meaningful reputations. I think there is a distinct difference between the two sets and I’d urge my kid to go to the waitlist school.</p>
<p>All of these were schools my son looked into initially. I would say at a glance, the only big difference is the campus culture. As I recall, all of your son’s Pennsylvania schools have a Greek system while none of the midwestern schools do. If I had to generalize I’d say the culture in the midwestern schools is more “hippie”/“artsy.” To me this is a bigger issue than subjective rankings. Did he stay overnight at both schools? Where would he fit in better socially?</p>
<p>I think a big issue in evaluating a school is the extent to which it draws people from all over the country. The G/C/Mac list are schools of such a caliber. The PA schools are local schools. Undoubtedly fine, but I think there is something to be said for going to a college with a more national student body.</p>
<p>Oh, Mathmom, I love your honesty. Hugs. I have my thoughts that way too, sigh, and recognize that it’s my problem.</p>
<p>It all comes down to what your son prefers in terms of every day life at the school, Claylife. My son turned down ivy, two of them did for that preference. You have to live and enjoy each day, and some schools are just better for some kids than others. Let him make the decision. Frankly, I would take Gettysburg over Carleton, as a personal matter, because I like the feel, the location, the campus of Gettysburg better, and around here, whatever leg up C might have in the ratings is mitigated by the fact that G has more name recognition due to geograpics. The only two schools that would make me waver in terms of rankings vs perceived atmosphere would be Amherst and Williams, and maybe just Amherst. Out west, Williams has little cache as Mini will bluntly tell you, but those two are considered the premier LACs, and I think there might be some differences in perception,all things equal, but that could just be my own snob meter.</p>
<p>Be aware, however, that some schools are just more difficult than others. Getting a certain gpa at CMU or Hopkins or Cornell is a lot harder than some other schools. Any slight edge if it even exists among schools is more than eaten up by a lower grade. A B average at Williams does not an A average at Dickinson equate. My close friend’s D with the “A” average at Dickinson was accepted to any number of selective programs at presitigious schools that her peers did not get with Bs from IVies and way up there in the selectivity ratings. That was a rather impressive event that clearly demonstrated the adage I stated.</p>
<p>“Your accepted-school list are schools that draw primarily from their region and won’t serve him well if he leaves that geographic area. To put it bluntly, they are unknown outside their home geographies. Your waitlist list are schools that draw from all over the nation and have meaningful reputations.”</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, what data do you have to back up your position? And how would this affect the OP’s son, if it were in fact true?</p>
<p>I also think that you’re talking a difference here that is greater than mathmom’s CMU vs Harvard or Tufts vs Chicago - in which I’d argue that all schools are top caliber so it comes down to personal preference. I’m sorry, I do think there is a marked difference between your two sets of schools.</p>
<p>I want to add that my son went to a top 50 LAC, turning down an Ivy League school. His peers, from a close knit independent rigorous prep school do tend to go to the top colleges, and many went to the top 25, ore even top 10, 1, 2, 3 LACs. What my son got in terms of opportunities , attention and everything else was just about unprecedented. He was a top student at his LAC, very much wanted with a nice merit award, and the professors and department truly bent over backwards. His high school peers were incredulous and envious and they really did have to compete for anything they wanted in that sort of area, and most of them were just too laid back to do so. His one classmate who went to Richmond COllege was the only one in that very talented group of students who got this sort of attention. We are going to graduation, and we have had personal invitations from his professors and he has so many teachers and adminstrators that are truly helping him out and are interested in him. Highly unilikely he would have gotten anything near those opportunities at schools where he was just another one in the crowd. He was just another kid at highschool of high achievers. And the quality and depth of his education has been high, very high. Not just an opinion of a mom either but of those in his fields of study. You can’t go into this expecting this degree of attention but the chances are just better in a school where your child is one of the highest achievers and a department notices this. You know where you have to be before a school like HPY thinks you are anything special.</p>
<p>Assuming that the money works out at both schools, I would not hesitate to go to one of the higher ranked group. They are excellent schools. IMHO, there is a big difference between Carleton and the lower group in terms of the sort of student that goes there, the level of intellectual bent, etc.</p>
<p>I don’t think you should pay attention to all the stuff about who “really” wanted him. They BOTH want him, and acting like this is a prom date is silly, IMHO. You don’t have to go with the person who asked you first. </p>
<p>Nor do I think you should be worried about which decile his stats fall into. The school would not accept him if they didn’t think he could do the work. If anything, being part of a more able student body means that he is likely to get a better education since the subjects he is interested in are those in which the level of classroom discussion is an important factor.</p>
<p>There are people on CC who seem bound and determined to steer everyone towards the least prestigious school in all such dilemmas. I think that the schools in your “off the wait list” group are more prestigious than the others for a reason, not because of the ranking on USN&WR. The second group are nice schools, and if your S wants to go to one of them for some burning rational reason, that would be fine. But don’t reject the other group for silly reasons.</p>
<p>And BTW, I really think you would get better advice if you would stop being coy about the names of the schools in question. Since you have no posting history here, no one is going to figure out who you son is. But the COULD give you specific pros and cons and issues to think about if they had accurate information.</p>
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