<p>I need some fast help. I've been a lurker but now I've got a problem. I want to apply SCEA to Yale but my mom wants me to go to Wellesley where she went and she thinks its better for girls. After she saw this stuff in the news about the fraternity and the chants shes even more convinced that Yale isn't a good place for me. If you are a student you probably already know about this stuff because there was an article in the newspaper.</p>
<p>Can anybody who is a student right now help me out? What this frat did was really really disgusting but aren't the other kids disgusted with them? How can I convince my mom that the stuff she's seeing about this story doesn't mean that Yales a bad place for me? She's pretty overprotective. I told her this stuff hasn't ever happened before at Yale and the people who did it wil probably get kicked out of the school but she won't believe me and thinks nothing will happen to them. Help please!!!</p>
<p>I’ll be blunt (and I’m a parent of girls too). You need to make some decisions if you really possess the maturity to be a Yale student. Your mom’s over-protectiveness is way too much in my opinion. Does she feel you’ll be insulated from rude, bigoted, insulting, uncaring men (or women) your entire life? </p>
<p>It strikes me that something about this noisome incident really sets your mother off. Perhaps she’s witnessed or been the victim of this kinda stuff before. But to ascribe this behavior to an entire college community? It’s mind boggling.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine there isn’t a single co-ed campus in america where some of this doesn’t exist. You need to decide how much you want to apply SCEA to Yale and decide quickly. Hopefully your mother respects your judgment here. As for convincing your mother otherwise, I suspect she’s already passed judgment on Yale. My best wishes for you.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Have your mother read the articles. This brought down a firestorm of condemnation on the people involved, who have been apologizing abjectly every since. But, no, no one is likely to be kicked out over it. And (as the articles make clear) stuff like this HAS happened at Yale before. And lots of other places, too. At least Yale seems clear that it’s not OK.</p></li>
<li><p>Wellesley isn’t some kind of cocoon:</p></li>
</ol>
<p>LOL ^^ I am definitely showing that Wellesley article to mom. But I think she’ll still feel like that’s just the girls going for it. I think it bothers her more that the guys at a school should act the way those frat guys did, especially if they aren’t kicked out. That petition is kind of cool but does that mean that the president of Yale hasn’t even said anything about it? That’s not cool. Anyway, you’re probably right about my mom. I don’t think she thinks much of Yale but she won’t stop me from applying. Oh and my mom really did see this on the internet on her own. I wasn’t going to show it to her but she found that ABC News article.</p>
<p>Yalies in general are not like those frat guys. In fact, I don’t think those frat guys are misogynistic or anything like that. They were probably trying to make a joke, but it was a bad joke and clearly insensitive. </p>
<p>The campus environment is wonderful here - everyone I’ve met has been very respectful and friendly. I think we all understand that we come from extremely diverse backgrounds, so it’s even more important to be respectful of other people.</p>
<p>If you can, definitely visit campus. You’ll see exactly what I mean.</p>
<p>“You need to make some decisions if you really possess the maturity to be a Yale student.”</p>
<p>Haha. Do you mean as much maturity as the Yale kids in that fraternity? I think I qualify on that one.</p>
<p>Seriously, my application was already almost done and everything else has been sent so I’m def applying. I talked about it with my mom again last night and got her to agree that I should get to apply anyway even if she doesn’t like Yale.</p>
<p>Thanks Anomoly, that makes me feel better but if everyone you’ve met has been respectful then you must not have met the DKE boys! That YouTube video already has about 70,000 views. What jerks they were and I hope they do get kicked out.</p>
<p>I didn’t mean to imply that you weren’t mature, climbing. I realize that you are in a tough situation. I hoped to press you into really fighting for your rightful chance at yale (or wherever).</p>
<p>As for those guys being jerks. Granted. As for their behavior meriting their expulsion: that’d be a stretch which I couldn’t agree to.</p>
<p>I’m sure every Yalie probably uttered some repugnant language during her or his time at New Haven – me included. </p>
<p>Were the DKEs stupid? Absolutely. But the punishment should fit the crime wouldn’t you agree?</p>
<p>Admirable sentiment, right out of Gilbert & Sullivan. But what does it mean in this case?</p>
<p>Do we decide that, in the case of DKE members, “no” does mean “yes”, and “yes” (even, or especially, if it is of the implied variety) does indeed mean anal? That would argue for sending them all to a high-security prison, where their interpretive philosophy is reputed to be widely shared and acted upon. That – even the merest threat of that – would pretty certainly dampen their enthusiasm for jokes about nonconsensual sex.</p>
<p>Or should we be content with forcing them to identify themselves publicly as Dekes? That punishment fits the crime fairly snugly, too.</p>
<p>Does DKE have any official status with the University? It seems to me that this is where the reaction should be. This is, apparently, not the first time something like this has happened–it appears to be a problem with this institution.</p>
<p>Edited to add: I confess that I was so outraged by this that I forgot for a while that there are free speech issues involved here that make it somewhat difficult.</p>
<p>Besides Anomaly, Im not sure if there are any other current Yalies on this thread…</p>
<p>I was on Old Campus, and heard DKE chanting. As well, I was in LC when Mary Miller had that meeting. NOT all Yale guys are like DKE, not even all FRAT guys are like DKE, and not even all DKEs are like DKE. Those guys were, like Anomaly said, trying to make a joke… it was just a bad one.</p>
<p>For the OP, if your mom is that worried about frat guys at a place like Yale, I feel so bad for her if she ever sees the fraternity realities at some flagship state schools.</p>
<p>Besides Anomaly, Im not sure if there are any other current Yalies on this thread…</p>
<p>I was on Old Campus, and heard DKE chanting. As well, I was in LC when Mary Miller had that meeting. NOT all Yale guys are like DKE, not even all FRAT guys are like DKE, and not even all DKEs are like DKE. Those guys were, like Anomaly said, trying to make a joke… it was just a bad one.</p>
<p>For the OP, if your mom is that worried about frat guys at a place like Yale, I feel so bad for her if she ever sees the fraternity realities at some flagship state schools.</p>
<p>All I want is for the names to be published. These guys are going to graduate with a prestigious degree and apply to top jobs and grad schools without one mark on their record. I don’t think they should be expelled, but they shouldn’t get off with a slap on the wrist either. They marched around the dorm where most freshman girls are housed, chanting pro rape slogans. They are adults; they knew what they were doing; in a nation where 1 out of 6 women is sexually assaulted in her lifetime, if you really think that these men were just having an innocent joke without any true opinions bleeding through… you are being very naive. </p>
<p>But. I don’t think that this is a reflection on Yale. I’ve heard that the campus as a whole has been united in outrage against the incident, and that the Women’s Center especially has done extraordinarily well to raise awareness of rape-related issues and counsel students who are frightened by the incident. So tell that to your mother-- many schools would not have reacted as well as Yale did. And then there’s the fact that frat boy/recruited athlete culture is a bit different from the general culture at the school, or so I’m told.</p>
<p>Hi, Im a recruited athlete, and I am not part of the DKE stereotype, so Im kindly asking you not to say its the “frat boy/recruited athlete culture”. I need to make that distinction, that is is simply frat boy culture. And, even with that, there are plenty of frat brothers who are upstanding gentlemen.</p>
<p>Now, as for publishing the names, I dont think its necessary. A Yale degree is given based on your academic merits, not your off campus activities (yes, the frats at Yale are not part of campus) and therefore should not be affected by what these students do. As well, the DKE name is tarnished heavily over this, so anyone associated with DKE will have to deal with the stigma now attached to it.</p>
<p>You’re right. I’ve changed my mind. It doesn’t need to be included on their academic records. This is the kind of thing society regulates through social standards, not legal ones. </p>
<p>But the names should still be released to the student body. </p>
<p>Here’s an example of why. I could march through the streets in front of my school yelling “Death to Muslims! Muslims are scum!” and plead freedom of speech and not get anything on my academic record… but I would be socially ostracized for it, and I would deserve that. And more importantly, now any Muslims I know can make an educated decision about whether to associate with me anymore. They have the right to that information. And similarly, the girls at Yale have the right to know who participated in those marches. If only so they know not to attend any party with drinks involved that any of these guys are also going to.</p>
<p>I apologize for repeating the stereotype about frat boys and/or recruited athletes. Regardless of what these groups are like in sexism quotient relative to the general population, pre-judging people for membership in those groups is not fair to all the frat boys and especially athletes who happen to be great, unbigoted people. As always, judging each person as an individual is the best way to go.</p>