“She goes to one of the most demanding schools in the country”
“where half the class gets a 36 on the ACT”
“about 90% of the class is Ivy legacy”
Demanding schools are everywhere. 36’s are everywhere. And is a high Ivy matriculation rate impressive with so much legacy?
If public is not an option, I would search for another private. There doesn’t seem to be anything overly special about this current school.
If this is the school I’m thinking of, they are extremely hardcore about writing in particular. Much more so than peer schools. I suspect it will end up ok and since she’s a legacy at two different universities, they might take more time with her explanation. This seems like such a minor transgression and obviously she will have learned her lesson. However, I’d absolutely expand the list.
I personally wouldn’t have her repeat junior year but if you decide to go that route, I can give you a few suggestions if you want to keep her in day schools. There have been a few kids I’ve known over the years to switch from one private to another late in the game, with good results.
I am.wondering - what does the OPs daughter want from OP? Have you had a chance to talk calmly together, just you two, about her thoughts? With no factoring in the other kids.
A discussion that is just about her.
Your explanation suggests that your child may have fallen into one of the following common process errors: 1) Student takes notes on sources without distinguishing direct quotes vs. paraphrases or keeping track of page numbers, leading to citation errors in the final paper. 2) Student is under time pressure and reverse engineers the reading of a primary source by using footnotes from a secondary source, resulting in a selective reading that inadvertently mirrors the secondary analysis too closely.
In my experience as a teacher, in the vast majority of cases, errors like these are not intentional and do not reflect ill on the student’s character. They tend to be the product of inexperience or haste during crunch times or both. These may or may not be applicable to your child’s case. In any event, this level of mistake should not result in a permanent black mark on a student’s academic record, IMO. A teacher/student discussion and a modest penalty and/or redo of the assignment should be enough to drive the message home.
Regardless of what happened in your child’s case, if you have not done so already, I recommend that you review the paper carefully to understand better the nature of the claim against her. The teacher should have documentation to support the allegation. If further clarification is needed, ask for a meeting. While your child may cringe at the prospect, it would likely help her to comprehend more fully how her process went awry and how to avoid similar errors in the future. This would also better prepare you to appeal the sanction, if you choose to do so.
Finally, I would not summarily dismiss reach colleges at this juncture. You have no way of knowing how heavily this incident will be weighed by admissions committees. As for pulling her out of this school and having her repeat a grade at boarding school, even if it’s possible at this late date, is this what she wants? Or thinks she wants? If it were me, I would let this play out first and give her some time to process. I imagine she’s feeling stung right now.
Best of luck to her moving forward.
Sorry, I thought another thread said BG twins, one at BS, one at day. You might want to clarify, since some posters seem to be confused.
@lookingforward She did clarify in post #116.
“Yes, G, G twins, same small school since K. She really can’t switch schools for senior year. Her sister is a stronger student, but this twin has slightly higher scores. They are close but want to attend separate colleges.”
Dos, I saw. But it’s getting confusing. Another thread says BG, her eldest, different high schools, both were thinking Penn ED, etc.
Of course, possible it’s two sets. And OP has been on CC for while.
@lookingforward I have 5 children, B just graduated from boarding, G,G twins in 11th grade, two younger in middle school (same day school as twins). Although not ideal, DD is going to stay at her school. It could look like she got expelled if she left for 12th grade. She will have support from the school’s college councilor and will get in somewhere, probably not one of her original top choices, but that’s okay. I agree the charge is ridiculous and as a former trustee (went off the board 7 years ago), I could fight it but I’m not so sure that is the right thing. I’ve always been very clear with all my kids that there are times when you are misunderstood and decisions are made which are not fair. If I intervene, I’m concerned that my younger kids (who unfortunately know all the details because of all the sobbing) will believe I’m willing to clean up any mess they get into. I’m torn.
Ok. But on CC, we sometimes pick up on conflicting statements. Eg, “boy/girls twins applying early to Penn.” Seems you meant: one son, then girl twins.
So, having been through an admit cycle, you probably learned nothing is guaranteed in admissions. Not the wins, not the losses.
Good luck to your daughter.
Imho, this is not the time to worry about what signal is sends to your younger children. This is the time to ensure your D gets what she needs. And these are the scary things that affect mental health and self esteem.
Yes, she made a mistake by mis-citing. Stop and read that again… mis-citing. No intent to deceive.
But at some point, does the Administration really think this is a life-changing event? (I know, don’t start a sentence with but and all that). Because that is what they have made it. You were on the Board. Would you stand behind the school if this was another kid?
Mistakes and consequences and all that. And what about fair consequences ? Have you heard the story of Lidice in WWII? An overreaction. Clearly, this administration follows that line of thought with regards to overreaction and punishment.
There are times our kids know we have their backs. This is a time like that. I like the idea of sitting down with the teacher - she can take her research and notes (which I’m sure is extensive) and understand the seriousness. And have an intelligent conversation.
Good luck
One thing I’d do is comfort her. Together, find perspective. Not see it as a “black mark,” which perpetuates the sense of doom. Even older teens often need our help in knowing how to pick up the pieces. And that there is a way to learn and move forward.
Every glass half empty is also half full.
I’m not minimizing the accusations. Remember, my kid went through something at least partly similar: citing once, when several paragraphs followed. She didn’t get off the hook because it was “only” a citation error. Nor because she battled. I made no contact with the school, waiting to see what next. It was dropped after she proved to the Head. (And it wasn’t dropped just because the hs was Quaker, PrivateBanker.)
If she’s learned a lesson, move forward. If not, work on her understanding of citations. But comfort her.
Good luck.
I understand why your D would want to finish off at her school but here are some random thoughts based on what I read here. Of course you are the one who will know the full story and decide what is best for your D and your family.
– I still don’t understand exactly what your D did wrong, but I would follow through with the school – IMO it is not a question of “cleaning up her mess” but rather doing what you can to insure that the consequences fit the transgression. It is not a bad thing for your kids to know they have your support if necessary.
– Assuming she stays at her day school, would try to scale back D’s schedule for senior year a bit. Operating on three hours sleep is not good for anyone and when you add college applications/interviews on top if it things are likely to go south.
– Have your D apply to a wide range of schools but assuming she was considered a viable candidate before this, I would keep in one or two reaches and see what happens.
– If she wants a less pressured environment for college I’d look at schools that require four 4 credit classes/semester rather than five 3 credit classes/semester – I had kids in school under both systems and having 4 classes instead of 5 does felt like it gave my D more breathing room. This information should be in online course catalogs.
Good luck moving forward.
I expect the school has spent a long time thinking about various actions and potential consequences and has determined its policy and notified parents and students prior to enrollment of that policy. OP can put this behind her and move on to college apps. It does no good to question whether this should be the school policy or not; it is, and was agreed to prior to enrollment. The school sounds like a fit for this family overall, and the student is just a few months away from finishing. change the focus to college applications and some summer fun. She will end up somewhere fine.
“Mistakes and consequences and all that. And what about fair consequences ? Have you heard the story of Lidice in WWII? An overreaction. Clearly, this administration follows that line of thought with regards to overreaction and punishment.”
Are we comparing the school administration to Nazis and massacres, now? Really?
OP, I hope you take this only as an attempt to be helpful from an outsider who knows nothing at all about your family - please make sure you do not give your daughter any reason to feel that you value her less than your relationship to any outside institution, or less than any of her siblings. That is all.
It’s just a thing that’s easy for a parent to overlook in the moment, yet can linger well into adulthood for some children.
Sounds like you are very invested as a family in a high pressure, prestigious school. And now your kid is facing the consequences of that. I can see why you don’t want to move her for senior year, but (and it may just be too hard for you to do this) consider your younger kids and if this is really the best environment for them. A school that is so punitive over an unintentional academic mistake is a place I wouldn’t send my kids.
I’ll say that my kids attended a private day school that was NOT the most prestigious school in our city, but only because my kids didn’t get into the more prestigious school for kindergarten. Found out later that after legacies and diversity admits, the school was talking 2-3 K students per year, which is probably why my kids didn’t get in. But looking back, and knowing some kids from the other school through D2’s club sport, I think we kind of dodged a bullet. My kids went to a school that wasn’t so bound by tradition and reputation that they did things like this. It was academically rigorous, but also had a strong focus on community and kindness, and generally they had a decent school/life balance.
36 ACTs and ivy admits aren’t everything. Some kids will achieve at that level anyway - my youngest was that type, with blazing raw intellectual talent. But if you choose a school trying to shape every single kid into “ivy material”, there are going to be negative consequences for some kids. No matter how the school dresses it up and promotes their successes, there is a downside, too.
I wonder how this error was detected, are instructors really checking every citation on every 30 page paper? Or was your D’s paper held to higher scrutiny because of the lack of proper notes? If it is the latter, I would like to be assured that beyond a doubt no other student committed this error without it being noted in their record, and not just for the class in question but for all classes where writing is required.
If the school has extremely strict requirements they must be applied equally to all students.
Otherwise I wish your daughter the best of luck, she sounds like a talented hard working kid.
I don’t know whether or not you should intervene, but I don’t believe the decision should be based on some kind of signal that your younger children may or may not absorb rather than on what is most appropriate for the child who has the problem.
Also, the younger kids may know what has happened but there is no reason they need to know all the details of what happens next or why a particular outcome ends up being the case.
OP, just wanted to send you a hug - this is obviously not a fun season of parenting. I admire your level-headedness in not getting involved by throwing your weight around as a former trustee. Truly, that speaks well of your sense of honor and shows you are not like over-entitled parents (such as the ones in the news, who have gotten caught up in the Varsity Blues scandal) who try to steamroll all obstacles in front of their children.
I am glad, though, that you have CC as a resource and a sounding board b/c obviously this is not something that you would want to discuss widely with parents of fellow students at your DD’s school or people you know IRL.
I know this is a weird way of looking at it, but perhaps this event will lead to your DD thinking longer and harder about what an ideal college will look and feel like to her. I know from my own kids’ experience that there are kinder and gentler schools out there with absolutely top-notch academics but a very different vibe than where your (older) DS will be going.
And I’m also glad that an earlier poster recommended focusing on comforting your DD and reminding her that she mad a mistake, but not a life-altering one. A bump in the road - even though right now she feels like it’s something that’s going to derail her.
Hang in there.