HELP: Duke or Cal

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
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<p>I wonder if intellectual curiosity varies more within a school than between different (good) schools.</p>

<p>For example, at Berkeley, there were students who fearlessly took the toughest and most advanced courses available to them, sometimes reaching graduate level courses as juniors or even sophomores.</p>

<p>But there were others, seeking to maximize their GPA for law school, medical school, or Haas, who sought out the easiest courses available (e.g. taking Math 16A or 16B even after getting a 5 on the AP Calculus BC).</p>

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<p>If I were in your situation, I would go to Duke. But I am biased because i am a pre-med/econ. For history, I would recommend going to UC Berkeley.</p>

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<p>warblers, you’re at UCLA now? Is that for a postgrad opportunity?</p>

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<p>I think it’s a laughable statement to say that “by almost every measure that exists which attempts to assess the quality of undergraduate education, Duke comes out well on top.”</p>

<p>Yes, Duke has a much more selective admissions process, and therefore a stronger student body overall (at least initially). But this has nothing to do with the quality of the education available (professors, research available, advising, etc.), it just means that Duke undergrads are more equipped to take advantage of opportunities than Berkeley students are, on average (the average Berkeley student is mediocre, while the average Duke student still had great high school stats).</p>

<p>So knowing that, is it really surprising that a higher percentage of students from Duke get into med school/law school/other professional schools? Of course not! Students with <2000 SAT and poor SATII/AP scores REGULARLY get into Berkeley, and these are the students that struggle enormously. Why should these students (the bottom 30-50% at Berkeley) be expected to compete with students that were top of their class in high school (most Duke students)? It’s a completely unreasonable comparison. </p>

<p>A much better comparison, in my opinion, would be to consider students that are on relatively equal footing as they enter college. This is also much more relevant for the OP, who obviously has stats good enough to get into Duke. I think it’s reasonable to say that the top half of Berkeley students have comparable stats to Duke students. I would love to see stats showing how Berkeley students with Duke-level high school stats did in these graduate admissions processes. </p>

<p>I would argue that the top half of students here at Berkeley are extremely intellectual, talented, and successful. And Berkeley has plenty of resources to allow these students to obtain the success they deserve. I know some math majors here that are going to take graduate level math courses as SOPHOMORES. Would they receive a better education with more opportunities at Duke? Of course not! My girlfriend turned down Duke to be a premed chemical biology major here, and she has a 4.0 so far. Would she get a higher class education and have an easier time getting into med school at Duke? Of course not! My roommate is a CS major who secured a fancy internship at Amazon for the summer. Would he be a better programmer with a better internship if he went to Duke? Of course not! Pretty much every incoming sophomore i know in the College of Chemistry with all A’s or A’s and B’s has a research position or internship for the summer. Would we be performing more cutting edge/interesting research at Duke? HELL NO! The research performed here is unbeatable.</p>

<p>Anyways, my main point is that good students should be able to succeed at BOTH Duke and Berkeley, as there are plenty of opportunities at both places. It’s pretty annoying when someone comes along and says that Duke is definitively better, which is obviously not true. There are many ordinary students at Berkeley that don’t succeed, but they wouldn’t even get into Duke, let alone succeed there.</p>

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<p>Singh2010, if what you say is true (the average Berkeley student is mediocre), then it’s hard to believe the top 50% is incredibly talented. That would imply the bottom 50% are absolutely abysmal - simply not the case.</p>

<p>Also, we’ve discussed this before, but you’re making an awfully strong argument for Berkeley tightening up its admissions process and/or reducing enrollment.</p>

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<p>Well I’m just saying that the average Berkeley student is a lot worse than the average Duke student, based on high school statistics. I think there’s something like a 200 point SAT I gap in the 25th percentile (bottom 25%) scores for each school, with Berkeley’s being around 1800 and Duke’s being around 2000. That’s enormous…and probably a big reason why Duke students are more successful.</p>

<p>But also, I think that once a student has a score of greater than 2200 or so, a higher score only makes a negligible difference in success, so the upper part of Berkeley students is comparable to the upper part of Duke’s.</p>

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Yes to both questions.</p>

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<p>^ Congrats! Junior faculty now at JCLA? ;)</p>

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<p>singh2010, again, you’re making a case for why the bottom 25% should frankly never have been admitted in the first place. </p>

<p>It’s a policy I agree with, anyway, for the reasons you have mentioned though I don’t agree with all of your conclusions (you’re placing a huge amount of faith in the SAT I alone at the exclusion of all other factors). Duke students are quite a bit wealthier than those at Berkeley, and there’s a strong correlation with socioeconomic status and SAT success (richer kids have much more access to prep courses, come from schools with better resources, etc)</p>

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<p>I chose Berkeley. Go bears!</p>

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<p>Go Bears! Good choice.</p>

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<p>You made the right choice one hundred and one percent! :)</p>

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<p>berkeley has more top SAT scorers than any other school in the country, even more than harvard</p>

<p>the difference is that there are thousands more non-top kids. BUT PLEASE REALIZE, that kids will group together based on similarities. you will have more TOP-CALIBER kids at Cal to grow with, than at any other school</p>

<p>Cal has more top-ranked departments than any other school in the world. Yes, that includes grad programs, but the professors and courses are all on campus so you have UNLIMITED potential to achieve the greatest heights.</p>

<p>in addition you live in the YAY area not durham and you save $100,000</p>

<p>why the hell would you choose duke?</p>

<p>GREAT CHOICE AND GO BEARS</p>

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<p>if you were choosing just on mock trial teams I’d look to the three best in the country: USC, Georgetown, and washU.</p>

<p>I just attended two Cal graduations, one at the greek and a smaller one at the playhouse behind Zellerbach. Both were disappointing, and mainly because of the long winded pleas by the key speakers (profs) for money. I found it classless to use the graduation platform honoring the graduates to hit the parents up for money! And it was an extended hit-up, a good 5 minutes on Cal’s financial woes.</p>

<p>You’ll never hear pandering like that at a Duke graduation.</p>

<p>Also, the counterpoint to top SAT kids is there are a lot of bottom SAT kids at Cal. And finally on class size alone I’d choose a private over mongo public like Cal. Talked to two graduates yesterday who told me they had freshman classes that were standing room only and 400+ kids and unfortunately after 4 years these two grads have regrets about attending Cal…unfortunately Cal is not what it used to be. today you can look forward to limited resources and crowded classrooms.</p>

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<p>a few guys I know who went to Duke have a lot of complains about the school some of those complains are far worse than what some Cal people complain. Goes to show you can’t please everyone, and pacheight’s rant is a perfect example. lol</p>

<p>OP, you made the right choice!</p>

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I agree it may not have been appropriate for a graduation speech, but alumni should be concerned about Berkeley’s financial crisis. With the decline in state funding, Berkeley needs to secure other sources of funding. Philanthropy is a key lever. </p>

<p>I read Berkeley Board of Trustees offered a $1 million challenge grant to new alumni donations. New alumni donations were up 450% last year. I might add alumni giving is a weighting used in the USNWR rankings… ;)</p>