<p>Please help us. My son is a senior this year. He only has two schools on his list. Problem is this. He has always wanted to pursue a music performance degree, until this past summer. His mind has switched gears and he REALLY wants to pursue music ed. He's not even interested in a double performance/ed program. He says he really thinks he wants to pursue teaching. The problem is he really has been groomed and is at the level of auditioning for conservatories. That's what he always wanted. </p>
<p>He has now gone from wanting to audition at NEC, Curtis, Cleveland Inst. and the likes to trying to find schools with very strong programs that have music ed. </p>
<p>He has Eastman and Ithaca on his list so far. </p>
<p>Please help.</p>
<p>He needs a very challenging strong music program in order to keep his interest. </p>
<p>Tell us more. Is he interested in teaching at the high school or college level? I would think that Eastman would have chalenging performance opportunities in addition to music ed.</p>
<p>seems he’s interested in high school to start and then at looking into teaching at the college level. </p>
<p>Eastman is the first choice. He’s been there and he’s had more then one lesson with the professor who really likes him. He needs choices though as it is Eastman and they will come from all over the world to take very limited spots.</p>
<p>Bigdjp,
Do you have a better understanding of why he decided to switch? Could somebody of said something discouraging to him that made him think that pursuing performance was pointless?</p>
<p>I think that you might want to make sure that his reasons behind this switch is because he loves teaching and enjoys working with children and not that he is choosing something that he thinks will be easier than performance. </p>
<p>I would also make sure that he really still loves music and wants a career focused on music. If not maybe he would be better off at a liberal arts college with a strong music program.</p>
<p>Despite certain stereotypes, music education majors do not necessarily perform at a lower level than do performance majors. Depending on his instrument, the teachers at some schools treat the performance and education students equally in terms of lesson time, expectations for facility on the instrument, etc. </p>
<p>Some of the big name conservatories also have music ed programs. I know for sure Peabody does, and others may as well.</p>
<p>Since he seems to like the upstate NY schools, let me be the first to suggest SUNY Potsdam and SUNY Fredonia, both well known for music programs.</p>
<p>stradmom has a good point. At my son’s state university all music majors and minors take private lessons from the same instructors, regardless of what music specialty. </p>
<p>They also have a music performance certificate program which any student of any major can enroll in and it includes all the same lessons and ensemble and jury and recital requirements that music performance students are expected to meet. Acceptance into the performance certificate program is by audition (same audition that is given for acceptance into the BM program). A little less than half of the non-performance music students at his college are accepted into it, and about half of those who do enroll and actually graduate, complete the performance certificate program (which is designated on the diploma as a “distinction in music performance”). </p>
<p>It was absolutely the perfect combination for my son - BM Music ed with a performance certificate.</p>
<p>My son selected music ed because it is more rounded of a music education that performance, with the same core curriculum that performance majors take, plus two semesters of conducting, and classes on different instruments each semester. In addition to his applied music classes on his primary instrument, last semester he took voice, this semester he is taking piano (which while hopefully prove to be an easy class for him since he already plays piano) and clarinet.</p>
<p>He can see himself doing something other than teaching, but he can’t see himself being in a career that is not in the music field. Performance is his first choice in careers, but he is a realist, if he ends up not finding a performance position, he thinks he would be happy with teaching, although he is now leaning towards eventually teaching at the college level if he does go into teaching.</p>
<p>Just the usual caveat, while teaching in a public high school would require a music ed degree, teaching at the college level would not require that at all. </p>
<p>Doesn’t U Michigan have a strong music ed program? Their overall school of music is quite strong, I would recommend that. Also doesn’t oberlin offer a music ed degree as well? Another possibility. </p>
<p>One thing, is it possible your son has anxiety over going into performance, realizing how competitive it is, and is seeing music ed as an alternate path? I am not saying music ed is not a great thing to go into, what concerns me is the sudden shift, and I know only too well this is the time when the stuff hits the fan with music kids, when the reality hits them, I am going through that right now with my own kid, getting ready for conservatory/music school auditions this time, seeing the anxiety when they realize this is it…and music ed might seem like a ‘safer’ alternative to be in music, maybe less competitive (highlight maybe, I have no way of knowing how tough it really is)…
I just worry he is having second thoughts out of fear of the competition when he still may really want to do it…I would talk him through why he suddenly wants to teach, what his motivation is, etc, just to make sure…</p>
<p>musicprnt, I would still think that a music ed degree would be valuable for teaching in college. Surely those education classes and music ed classes and the curriculum set forth in most music ed programs has some application in teaching at the college level. I wouldn’t think that getting a Bachelors in music ed would ever keep someone who is also qualified with a masters and/or terminal degree in music (even music ed), from teaching in college. I would expect that many instructors who teach music ed classes were once a music ed student themselves.</p>
<p>My son’s applied music professor has a BM in music ed, and a masters in performance, both from top conservatories.</p>
<p>I didn’t mean to imply that someone with a music ed degree couldn’t teach at the college level or that they don’t, I simply meant it isn’t a requirement to do so, so if his goal was strictly to teach at the college level that he didn’t need it (or in private school), if that was his concern, that in college performance programs IME I haven’t run across too many music ed backgrounds…I simply didn’t want him thinking he needed to do a music ed degree to be able to teach at the college level, that’s all.</p>
<p>There is a lot of pressure on kids (and their parents) to be more practical than a performance degree. He may be doubting himself with everyone saying he needs to pick something where he can make money. We supported DD’s performance major since we believed that it is hard enough to make a living without giving it your complete attention. But many many people questioned her and us as to the wisdom of that course. It takes a strong person to constantly turn away that questioning. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if likes kids and teaching in a public school K-12 then go for it. He may have felt that performance was the only respectable course for a “true” musician. We know that is not true either. So it really needs to be based on his desire to teach. There are enough disappointed performers teaching that really shouldn’t. You can support him based on a good discussion of his desired outcomes. </p>
<p>Second musicprnt, he does not need the music ed to teach in private schools, college, or to have his own studio. Friend of DD’s has her own studio associated with a private school and is supporting herself quite well. The music ed degree has all kinds of extra requirements that are not needed for that kind of teaching. </p>
<p>A good choice of schools would be one where both are welcome and he can switch if he wishes. Another friend of DD’s did that, started music ed and switched to performance freshman year after finding out what music ed entailed.</p>
<p>Just to clarify: More and more private schools are requiring certification for their teachers now. If parents are shelling out 25K+ year, the schools want a known commodity and certification is at least that. And certification in some fields can actually be a help when wanting to teach at the college level; crossing that divide can be difficult and colleges, 2 & 4 year, will often be more prone to considering a candidate who has taught at the HS level. With the tough market out there, it doesn’t hurt to hold as many cards as you possibly can.</p>
<p>There are countless undergrad programs in music education, including state universities. Does he prefer upstate NY? Can you narrow it down a little? Does he want a program that is affiliated with a conservatory, so he can preserve different options?</p>
<p>I think Eastman and Ithaca are great choices. Does he need more choices if he likes these two? I am sincerely asking, and assume there are reasons. I know privacy is a concern.</p>
<p>Would he consider Bard at all; doesn’t have music education program but several ways to study music along with another field, in either the college or conservatory,and they have a new MAT based on the El Sistema program, which is based in Cambridge MA: [MAT</a> in Music Take A Stand](<a href=“http://www.take-a-stand.org/mat-in-music/]MAT”>http://www.take-a-stand.org/mat-in-music/), maybe they will have a 5 year program for undergrads-? Spirit Manager would know…</p>
<p>I wonder if he would consider doing undergrad performance and then master’s program for education? I think most public schools want a master’s anyway. In our state , a grad with a BA or BM could teach with the stipulation that he get a master’s within a certain period of time.</p>
<p>Well, many options on the grad level too. Sorry to go off on the grad tangent when you did not ask about it: looking at Bard made me think of it.</p>
<p>My niece is majoring in music ed at Penn State. Other programs she considered are Rutgers, Michigan, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Boston University and Delaware. West Chester in PA also has a good program. She auditioned and met with professors at each school.</p>
<p>Singersmom-
That is what I was trying to say, you only need music ed in public k-12 schools (there could be private k-12 that want it, but I haven’t seen any) and of course private teaching doesn’t require it and colleges definitely don’t, most of the teachers by far seem to have performance degrees.</p>
<p>The more information you can give people the better, because there are literally hundreds and hundreds of schools that might meet your criteria, so it would be helpful to know what he is looking for, what you gave was very broad based. Are there areas of the country he wants to be in or not? Is there an area he would like to live in after graduation (people have pointed out on here that it is easier to get certified going to school in the state), those would all be useful. There is no such thing as a list of the ‘perfect’ schools unfortunately, which is why information is important.</p>
<p>Another thing to be careful of is thinking music ed is a ‘safe’ alternative to going into performance, given the current austerity trends in schools, with all the pressure to reign in taxes and so forth, arts programs, including music, are being pared back and eliminated. One of the reasons people questioned if he wanted to teach or saw it as a safe alternative is there are more then a few music teachers out there who are frustrated performers and it shows in their teaching…if he really thinks he wants to teach, that is great, but if his thinking is it is more safe he may be disappointed, that’s all. </p>
<p>BTW, your last post quite frankly came off as rude, whether you intended it or not. People take time to respond on here because they want to help, and for example, while what he does is up to him, people asked because all of us have been there or are dealing with what it is like to go into music, and your response came off as MYOB, like you were insulted that people dare question his decision, when all people were trying to do is be helpful. Single responses, like “Responses please” “His reasons are legit ,not going to talk about it here” come off as arrogant and rude, big time, or as if somehow you are demanding information rather then asking. All you had to say was “Thanks, it seems like he has had a legitimate change of heart, we have talked about it, and now we are simply trying to figure out how to proceed from here”.</p>
<p>I have to agree with musicprnt. I was a little shocked by your reply, bigdjp. Perhaps you didn’t mean to come across that way, but folks have been generously offering information in carefully written posts.</p>
<p>I’m sorry if I offended anyone. I asked for program suggestions and I mostly received people trying to analyze the situation over the computer. </p>
<p>I really wasn’t looking for people to spend tons of time in response, I just wanted some suggestions of programs we may not have thought about. </p>
<p>I see four suggestions of schools prior to your request for “programs please” and 10 suggestions following that post, along with confirmations that your son’s interest in Eastman and Ithaca for music ed is well placed. Can you give us some feedback on those suggestions so that we may meet your needs?</p>
<p>Also if you want suggestions of
how about letting us know which programs you have thought about (if you can do that without divulging information you don’t want to share)? </p>
<p>The reason people are giving you analysis is because this board is a very supportive community, and we often dig deeper than some other groups. In my experience, all sorts of musicians and their families find a home here, everyone from top-level performers to those who have just discovered that they want to turn their hobby into a career. Sometimes our enthusiasm can be a little overwhelming, but please know that our interest is sincere and we don’t want you to share anything that makes you uncomfortable.</p>