Help: McGill vs Bowdoin vs UConn

Parents Forum
1

<p>I'm a parent trying to help my daughter decide before we run out of time.</p>

<p>Bowdoin, small college, very selective, about $45K a year for us. First son graduating this year. He loves it and is pushing for her to go there. The problem of course is the cost (loans are piling up).</p>

<p>McGill, Very Large, Great school/City, $30K. Great opportunity for a continuous study abroad experience. I'm concern about the school being too bureocratic (red tape), and faculty help. We also hear about grade deflation and how difficult it is to switch majors.</p>

<p>UConn, Very large too, best program match (desired carreer: Physical Therapy Doctor), $20K. We can pay it with no loans and then help her going to graduate school. It is not in a glamorous city or as prestigious as Bowdoin Colege but I understand that acdemics are great and that the school has a lot of school spirit. </p>

<p>Are they much different in value? Would it make a difference down the road (graduate programs, career). </p>

<p>My daughter is leaning toward McGill (because of Montreal and overall city experience) but I like the other two better. </p>

<p>Most likely will go her way but we could use any information that you may provide.</p>

<p>Thanks,</p>

2

<p>Disclaimer, I am a UCONN grad, however none of my kids applied to UCONN. I don’t think its a great school overall, its very good but not great. Campus doesn’t impress me at all. S2 was up there for a camp and it just seems tired, plus the cows in the middle of campus didn’t appeal to him. However, they are very strong & respected in Allied Health which is your daughters major. Their allied health programs are very selective. Since your D is planning on going to grad/med school, I would save the money and send her to UCONN.
My S2 is going to an OOS flagship and one of the reasons is he is planning on med/grad school. Bowdoin is a fantastic school. However, as an employer in NE it wasn’t on my radar, until I had kids old enough to go to school.</p>

3

<p>Thank you for taking time to respond. It is hard to select best option when the schools are so different and all have good and bad points. I’m going to see if she wants to make another visit to any of these schools before deciding.</p>

4

<p>Congrats on getting into Bowdoin! If you can pay for it, definitely go there.</p>

5

<p>UConn because 1) it is the best program match and 2) it is the most affordable. In her field, she needs to think about the best way to get to her Doctorate, and the doctoral program that will get her the best options for employment after graduation. For example, even if she can pursue that degree at McGill, how long would it take her to get licensed in the US?</p>

<p>Sit down with your daughter, and run the numbers through this handy calculator from our friends at FinAid.org She may be able to think of a lot of things that she’d rather do with the money that she’d save by attending UConn. [FinAid</a> | Calculators | Award Letter Comparison Tool](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Award Letter Requirements - Finaid)</p>

6

<p>My D is at McGill. Currently a freshman majoring in cognitive science. LOVES the city. No surprise there. It’s vibrant and cosmopolitan and McGill is smack-dab in the middle of it, yet has a cohesive and separate campus. Visit if you haven’t.</p>

<p>That being said, she is a very, very independent and self-sufficient young lady, and that has served her well at McGill. They will not hold your hand there. You have to be organized, diligent and proactive. It’s a big school, and although the international student services personnel are wonderfully helpful, there is a lot of red tape to deal with as an international student. And the exchange rate stinks these days…</p>

<p>But she loves it there.</p>

7

<p>It sounds like you already have a good picture of McGill, but I’ll chime in to say that my daughter’s boyfriend, a student at McGill, agrees with a lot of the comments above. In his opinion, faculty are not particularly interested in undergraduates (“what, you want to meet with me to ask questions?”), advising has been very poor, classes are huge. Basically, he feels strongly that the focus is on graduate programs. He loves the city, though, a lot. </p>

<p>Whether or not any of that is different at UConn, I can’t say.</p>

<p>You said that “loans are piling up”. I’m a debt-averse person, and phrases like that make me nervous. It would be hard for me to stay neutral if loans were reaching a problematic level.</p>

8

<p>The question of fit is especially important when considering McGill. When your D visits please have her speak to someone from the Faculty or from Enrollment Services. McGill organises receptions for accepted freshman at its campuses and in cities all over the world! [Attend</a> an event for newly admitted students](<a href=“http://www.mcgill.ca/newstudents/events/]Attend”>http://www.mcgill.ca/newstudents/events/)</p>

<p>Classes, especially freshman ones, are generally large but not universally so; it depends on which faculty you are in. The School of Physical and Occupational Therapy (while affiliated with the Faculty of Science, isn’t a Department within the Faculty and this makes a BIG difference) is much smaller than the Faculty of Science and that of Arts so I believe that the program offers a much more tight knit and personal experience. It’s very likely that she might have to take basic science classes (which are large but have small lab sections) as well as some some upper level Physiology/Anatomy classes (with the Science kids) which are smaller. As for the rest of the classes which are exclusive to her program, they’ll be intimate. Again, I urge you to ask these questions to someone from the School since your D is in a much smaller program, unlike the children of the posters above.</p>

<p>I was in one of the largest Departments at the University but was able to get to know my professors well. Did it take effort and planning on my part? Yes it did. Freshman year, I took a first year seminar that had only 20 people in it and was a great exposure to what the honors classes and curriculum is like. Subsequently when I qualified for honors I got to do research with top researchers (which landed me a summer gig at Harvard during junior year and subsequently got me into grad school at Harvard), wrote two theses and took upper level classes which ranged from 15 (the honors classes)-150 students (the non-honors classes). McGill is a research heavy university, though by no means is the undergrad program ignored at the altar of grad programs. I agree advising isn’t the best, but I didn’t encounter professors who outright discouraged visits or questions. I changed career aspirations midway and got good advice when I needed it.</p>

<p>The McGill experience is what you make of it. I greatly enjoyed my time at McGill, but I am a big-city person and like my independence.If you want to do well at McGill and take advantage of the top notch resources (in and out of the classroom) that a large school of such caliber offers, a student has to behave like an adult. There is no mollycoddling. Some students thrive in such conditions while others don’t.</p>

9

<p>"Congrats on getting into Bowdoin! If you can pay for it, definitely go there. "</p>

<p>Listen very carefully . . .</p>

10

<p>well said, whittle, and spot on.</p>

11

<p>Thanks for the different comments. I’m also debt-adverse and have managed to stay well in control (loans), however if I can avoid adding additional loans that would be great. More importantly, I want my daughter to go where she would get the best education (for the money, best value). In a scale of 1 to 10, how different are these schools for overall experience and academics? Which would giver her a better base for graduate school and beyond? Thanks again for your advice.</p>

12

<p>Comparing the experience at a small LAC like Bowdoin to large schools like McGill and UConn is like comparing apples to oranges.</p>

<p>That being said, I would say, on the whole, McGill is academically superior to UConn. McGill is very strong in the health sciences (besides its other top tier programs which offer interesting electives) and prepares its students very well for graduate programs. There are plenty of opportunities to do undergraduate research (a big hook for graduate school applications) and these opportunities have only become better with time. [Office</a> for Undergraduate Research in Science](<a href=“http://www.mcgill.ca/science/ours/]Office”>Undergraduate research | Faculty of Science - McGill University). </p>

<p>Classes, lab sections and exams in the sciences tend to be detailed (which unfortunately require memorization) and application-based (striking fear into students). Of course, there are ‘easy’ and interesting classes like the very popular World of Chem Series ([Office</a> for Science and Society](<a href=“http://oss.mcgill.ca/wochome.php]Office”>http://oss.mcgill.ca/wochome.php)) besides others for electives. Regardless, each A that is given is well deserved. However, I don’t put much credence in the belief that there is rampant grade deflation at McGill. Study hard, work smart and there is no reason why your D shouldn’t be able to pull off a 3.5+ (Engineering is a whole other ball game)</p>

<p>McGill’s prestige among top graduate programs is a given. If your D does well she shouldn’t have any problems getting into a top US program for her Ph.D. Some of close friends, with stellar grades, got into Ivy/Top 5 grad programs. However, the student body runs the gamut from having produced the most number of Rhode Scholars in Canada (and only behind HYP) to those who get in relatively easily because of the politics of state funding (the entering average is still the highest in Canada).</p>

<p>If your D is pro-active about things she can end up with an academic experience that warrants a 7+. However things could also go horribly wrong (it’s easy to fall through the cracks and go unnoticed, but if you ask for help there’s plenty of that too: <a href=“http://www.mcgill.ca/firstyear/[/url]”>http://www.mcgill.ca/firstyear/&lt;/a&gt;) resulting in a less than average experience.</p>

<p>As for the social atmosphere, being smack dab between the ‘mountain’ and the downtown financial core of Montreal is an incomparable plus for those seeking an urban atmosphere. There is much to do on campus ([SSMU</a> - Students? Society McGill University](<a href=“http://ssmu.mcgill.ca/]SSMU”>http://ssmu.mcgill.ca/)) as well as in the city (parties,concerts, lectures,hockey more than satisfy the largest post-secondary student population per capita North America). This coupled with the legal drinking age in Quebec (18) can be very distracting for those living alone for the first time (particularly American kids and the sizable international crowd). McGill has a very international flair, with almost 20% of the student population coming from overseas. Consequently, I now have close friends in all the inhabitable continents (and free places to crash when I visit)! I’ve gotten approached in the streets of Europe and Asia by alum who noticed my McGill hoodie! Students largely give McGill’s social atmosphere a top grade (thanks in no small part to Montreal). </p>

<p>Not that it is very important, I turned down Top 5 and Top 10 US undergrad programs and it’s not uncommon to find students at McGill who do that. My McGill experience gave me a great return on my investment. Good luck to your D.</p>

13

<p>Of course she should visit the campuses. However, if cost is a concern, then I recommend UConn. Selectivity has gone up over the past 4-5 years and I think in the health field grades are more important than the name of the undergraduate school. Yes, its sort of in the middle of nowhere, so save your money, use it for a semester or a year abroad and for future studies.</p>

14

<p>At the end it was between McGill and Bowdoin. It was a diificult decision but my daughter opted for McGill university. She preferred the overall experience at a larger, well-recognized school in a big city. </p>

<p>Thank you all for your kind words and advice.</p>