Hi,
I am lucky to have been admitted to: UC Berkeley (Letters & Science), UCLA (CS/Engg), Vanderbilt, Rice, UChicago, Tufts and Northeast(CS). At all these places, I intend to either double major CS/Math or major in CS with a minor in math. I have a direct admit to CS at UCLA and Northeast U. At others its in Science colleges with an option to declare CS or math major later. My long term ambition is to get into research positions in the CS+math (algorithmic analysis and related). I like to be at a univ with strong academic focus but also time to relax a bit; not into party scene much, so don’t care about greek life either way; geographic location is not a big factor though being a new englander, feel like I want to experience a new place but geography is not a deciding factor.
If cost is not a consideration - which college would you suggest for me.
My current thinking:
1 choice is Berkeley - it is a highly rated college for both CS and Math. Strong academic focus. Negatives are big classes and competitive environment (the former does not bother me much but toxic environment does bother).
2 is UChicago/Rice/Vandy - stronger math departments with fine CS departments. smaller classes and good resources. Visited all of them and generally liked.
(not including the costs above so discussion is mainly on other factors; but NEU with merit is cheapest; Cal, UCLA, Vandy and Rice are next in price range; UChicago, Tufts are most expensive).
These schools are pretty different in CS curriculum, size, vibe, geography, location, quarter vs semester calendar…certainly you must have some preferences with regard to those factors? If so, can you eliminate some that way?
For many students, costs dictate where they go for college. Are even the most expensive schools affordable, or would you have to take out loans? If loans are needed, how much?
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My long term ambition is to get into research positions in the CS+math (algorithmic analysis and related)/quote]
What industry/type of company are you thinking… banking/hedge funds, consulting, FAANG type companies, etc.?
Rice or Vanderbilt for collaborative nature, happy students. Given your indifference to Greek life, Rice seems to be the clear choice since Greek life is big a Vandy and there are no frats/sororities at Rice.
Maybe UChicago, but your comments above re: Berkeley imply that UChicago may be more competitive than you want. Relative to other schools, will give you less time to “relax a bit” as you state – especially with its quarter system. Plus more expensive.
Thanks for the comment.
I have to admit that I didn’t do good research before applying. I was rejected from my ED/EA schools and got panic and decided to apply to some of these colleges at last minute. My thinking was to visit them and do research after results - but now things changed.
Looking at the CS and Math curriculum - I got the impression that they are very similar. The quarter system is a good point and I have to do more research.
Yes cost is a very important aspect - I didn’t add it in the initial post because - once costs are mentioned, most messages/advice concentrate on that aspect. But of all the admits NEU and Rice are cheapest for me - they both gave scholarships to make the total cost of attendances to around 40k. Those two are very different schools - one is heavy on co-op experience the other is more traditional research univ.
UChicago and Tufts are most expensive around 72k - eliminated Tufts upon further consideration. Vandy is a bit lower at 67k; Berkeley at 60k.
FAANG type companies - I am a passionate math competitor with a strong interest in number theory and math modeling and want to use these skills. Science/Engineering applications of math/cs interests me more than finance/accounting applications.
My current short list: Berkeley, Chicago, Rice and Vandy. Eliminated UCLA and Tufts. NEU is down the list (I can’t decide if co-op is good or bad for my long term plans).
Among the latest short-list, Chicago has quarter system and relatively newer CS dept but it has a legendary math dept and curriculum; Rice seems the coolest one and with its merit aid, it will make things easy on my parents; Berkeley seems very focussed program in - but has the risk that I have to earn the cs major. (Vandy - no opinion - honestly, I applied to it because it has only one supplement).
One thought about Rice vs Berkeley:
My parents live in New England; during summers they want me to comeback and search for internships near Boston. Does having a Rice vs Berkeley vs Chicago have any impact on finding internships in New England ?
Congratulations on your acceptances to so many fine schools. At Rice you can major in anything you want and do not have to declare a major until the end of sophomore year. Rice is very generous with AP credits so many students are able to double major. It sounds like you are a great fit for Rice, and it is one of the most affordable options. Rice gets high marks along with Vandy for happiest students. There is a collaborative rather than cut throat vibe at Rice. Unlike Vandy, Rice does not have the Greek system. Rice has an inclusive residential college system instead. Unfortunately Rice had to cancel Owl Days but will be putting together some virtual tours and other information for admitted students. if you have any questions about Rice, folks on the Rice page will be happy to answer.
I agree with this but I’m biased as my D is a freshman at Rice. But she did have Rice and Vandy at the top of her list, and the collaborative vs. competitive vibe was a large reason why. She hated U Chicago - not 100% sure why but she felt even in the info session the kids seemed competitive. But that was just her impression and it probably didn’t help that it was freezing and bleak out the day we visited. I thought the campus was pretty.
I can attest that the collaborative environment at Rice is a real thing. My daughter has group chats with kids in her harder classes where they talk about problems and they often get together to go over assignments (when allowed). Kids are often ask each other for help or to explain a concept. The kids are high achievers and aren’t interesting in copying off each other. They want to understand the concepts. Each residential college also has “fellows” which are other students who are good at a certain subject who can hold weekly office hours and help with issues that come up too. I heard someone explain the vibe once this way: “The kids at Rice are more competitive with themselves than with each other.” I would say that in at least my daughter’s experience that is true. I suspect Vandy is similar, at least based on reputation.
Once difference between Rice and Vandy is the greek system. Not sure how important it is for you to avoid. My D was not interested in the greek system but didn’t feel like the fact Vandy had one was a deal breaker for her. She does LOVE the residential college system at Rice though.
Good luck to you! You have a lot of great options!
If I were you , I would go with Rice. For one thing, Rice is one of the few top notch research universities out there with a small undergrad population. You will receive more support while also having access to an abundance of research opportunities (not to mention smaller classes). Like others have mentioned, it has some of the happiest students and is located in an exciting city.
I would not recommend paying $60,000 for a state school, no matter how prestigious the programs are. Simply put, because they have so many students, they are not going to care as much about you no matter how much tuition you pay. I sent my own daughter to a prestigious, but expensive oos state university, and we did not feel like she got the support that she needed, especially when she became extremely ill for two years. If you are going to pay private school level tuition, you may as well go to a private school. Otherwise, it can really suck to pay double what in-staters are paying for the same exact education.
Granted, I am pretty biased to say the least so take my advice with a grain of salt. You are clearly a bright student who will succeed no matter where you go.
UChicago if money truly is no object and if you’re enthusiastic about the Core curriculum. Otherwise, Rice (which is a great school and significantly less expensive than most of the others). IMO, NEU’s coop program may not offer much advantage, for a CS/math major, that you cannot get through internships at another good school.
(Good internships should be fairly easy to find for CS/Math students at any top school.)
Thanks for all the comments/advice (and sorry for disappearing for a few days).
UChicago’s Core is something I was ambivalent about. I liked it in my initial research but at the same worried if I would do well in that part of academics - I am an average writer and generally do well in STEM-oriented classes. In the last few days, did more research and contacted couple profs and attended virtual classes…I came back liking the classes (even hum/soc have courses that are a bit inter-disciplinary and gave me confidence that I can still do fine in them…of course I have to work hard). Also, UChicago’s Core and Cal’s breadth requirements sounded a bit similar, though UChicago has more emphasis (in terms of number of courses and intellectual depth)…think I will be fine at either college with breadth requirements.
PS: received UChicago amended aid notification in the last few days…and they gave me grants which makes it same as Cal in terms of cost. Rice is still most affordable.
If you are ambivalent about the core, choose Rice and save the $$$. $20,000/year over 4 years is $80,000. Out of state students pay sticker price at Cal, and the University of Chicago is one of the most expensive schools in the country. Is the extra $80,000 over 4 years worth it? That $80k will fund some grad school tuition or could be put in savings towards a home purchase, etc.
If money were no object, then Tufts would probably be the best fit. Culturally, it is more laid back (I do not have first hand experience with Rice, but those that do, say the cultures are somewhat similar). Rice is more “STEMy” and Tufts is more “Liberal Artsy”. Due to its Universalist heritage Tufts tends to be more interdisiplinary and international, but with that comes with a somewhat large set of distribution requirements (somewhat similar to UChicago core, but more flexible) and a six semester language/culture requirement. Before the word “quirky” went out of style, U Chicago and Tufts took pride in that moniker (which really meant creative-nonconformist). The Comp Sci department is known for it’s interdisciplinary/applied focus and works closely with the Math Department. The Comp Sci department is strong in AI (which you mentioned in another post) and due to its LAC lineage and small Phd program, it is very undergrad focused. It places several graduates in each of FAAMG every year with the exception of Apple. Each of the other four have local offices, but the grads who work at these companies tend to head west to The Valley and Seattle (with the exception of Amazon’s robotics group, which is local). It also has a strong reputation for undergrad access to high level research. On a per capita basis, it outperforms all of the other choices on your list in terms of undergrad research awards. UCB has a higher absolute number of awards, but it is a much larger program. Access to high level research and a close working relationship with a professor are what is most important if you want to advance in academia.
You can glance through the winners of the CRA, which along with the NSF graduate research scholarships are the most prestigous undergrad research awards. Tufts had 4 winners this year, but look through a few years of winners to get a better feel for the average.
The Boston/Cambridge area with MIT/Harvard/Microsoft/Amazon and lots of startups is also great for computing related events and internships.
Recreationally, you seem to be interested in mountain climbing and Tufts has a very active mountain cub (called TMC). It has a cabin up in the White Mountains of New Hampshire and a couple of vans that students use to travel back and forth every weekend. There is also a 2,200 acre urban forest (called Middlesex Fells) a couple of miles away where students hike and mountain bike. The club is very active in the rockclimbing arena and a member of the rock-climbing team placed fifth in the 2018 World University Sport Climbing Championship in Bratislava, Slovakia.
Having said all that, I would have a hard time cost justifying Tufts over Rice, unless money were really no object.
Thanks all for the great advice and pointers. After a bit of (ok…actually a lot of) deliberation, I decided to go for Rice.
It was a tough decision, especially between Rice, UChicago and UCB - as all of them are excellent programs and I was worried if I am missing something critical (or not considering some aspect) by choosing one over the other. But the aspects I considered and weighed: undergraduate experience (this include class size, research opportunities, general vibe based on my research); AP credits and the length of program; generous aid. I am convinced that Rice will provide what I am looking for and excited. Officially committing today.
Thank you all - appreciate the help from CC in my (sometimes stressful) college search process. cheers.