Help me compare VA. schools - UVA, W&M and UR

@Wilson98 and @wisteria100 I was skeptical too but heard it from so many and I didn’t want to take any chances on screwing up the W&M app so decided to just do it. Yes, we would have been further ahead for sure but she said she would work on essays for some other choices so it would be all ready to go if she was denied, however, that did not happen, ugh. She does have a few drafts but nothing ready. She has a great spider essay for UR that is ready next week - they need it by 1/15. The other common app stuff is the same. I have FASFA and CCS profile thing done.

@Spring16 Thanks for understanding her preferences and why. And for the GW info - I will have to look further into this for sure! Bryn Mawr is GORGEOUS but she doesn’t want an all girls school. I think she will try Villanova but her math scores really bring her down so it’s iffy at best. She would consider Penn around the Philly area, lots of history there to interest and excite her. Do you know anything about Lehigh? I heard it was sort of cliquey and preppie? Checking into aid at these 2. Villanova might be too large and too footbally.

@wisteria100 She’d be taking the ACT again to get her scores up to make her more competitive when she applies next spring to transfer for fall 2018, yes, too late now. I really, really thought W&M would see she was a history/art history major and not put much weight on the math score, sigh. When I called afterward they said they do consider it but mainly just look at the composite score, even in committee. That right there probably did her in. So she wants to increase her score once she’s had all the math to hopefully give her a better shot at transferring. She always did well in science, all honors classes so not sure what that score was but perhaps lower as well to acct for the 29 composite. She has taken the ACT and SAT both twice. Studied a ton for each test but only increased scores a little. Great SAT Subject in history - 750 or 760.

You know I looked at some college websites on the sheet the guidance counselor gave us and his info is wrong. This is a HS of 4000 kids so he is giving out the wrong info.

@cloudysmom Sorry you got what seems like bad advice. There may have been one or two Virginia schools you could have applied to EA and heard back in mid-January, which might have helped.

Still, your D has three weeks for some applications and five for others, so applying later shouldn’t really affect her chances of admission. It does add to the stress, which I’m sure there is already enough of.

It really is unfortunate that you thought you had to wait to hear back from W & M before applying elsewhere. I do know it is very disappointing to to not have ED work out but she has to move on and get busy with those other apps. You say you have completed the FAFSA and CSS profile. What is your EFC? Are the schools going to accept the CSS info without info from the dad? I’m not sure how that works?

@cloudysmom I am still concerned that the colleges on your D’s application list which require the CSS profile are going to require a non custodial parent waiver before they will actually award your D any institutional grant aid based on your income alone.

I think you should call those schools now and find out what documentation will be required, there may be things other than court docs or police reports that will suffice. Perhaps your D’s HS guidance counselor can provide what is needed. It may take time to figure all of that out. The University of Richmond financial aid office has always been very responsive when I have had questions.

She had a few drafts done and is nearly done w/ her spider essay. She’s been upset but I actually think having to focus on this now is helping her get her mind off of it.

All the school websites say they will ask for the non custodial parent info if needed - none say it is required. Her advisor says they don’t always ask. I think we’ll have to cross that bridge when we get to it because calling them all with a sob story before she even is accepted dosen’t make much sense to me. And until they accept her I don’t think they will care so much, I think they’ll want to wait to see if she’s accepted before delving into finances. All the info I can find just says they ask depending upon the financial info in my application. None of these schools will upset my D if she doesn’t get in, there is no more emotional choices here I’m afraid.

THE FASFA and CSS are completed because we applied to W&M. She got an email from Roanoke saying she can apply for free by 12/15 she will hear back by Xmas, guess they are eager for applicants - and NO essay in the attached link so she did that thinking what the heck. Based on her scores they give her $20K in aid plus need based. I think it’s gorgeous but she thinks its in the middle of nowhere.

It was confusing with FASFA as I had to go back in and remove W&M and put in the code for Roanoke - I think it automatically sent it but now do I have to remove each school when add new ones or it resends to the other schools it already sent it to? Am I making sense? Anyone know?

@mamag2855 Sigh, I guess so it’s just painful and humiliating to call and explain that he basically abandoned her, we don’t know his address or job and I can’t afford to hire an attny and fly back and forth to MA so I cannot fill out the form. I guess I can gear up for it and call them monday. I will also ask her guidance counselor if he has any experience with this, thanks for the suggestion. I just cannot imagine that I am the first to be in this position. It is impossible for me to fill this out so that would just mean that D gets screwed over, he father messes her up yet again? I can’t think the schools would be that unfair.

@cloudysmom I am no expert on non custodial parents. If the paperwork says may be required that is exactly what it means. It would be good to have a couple schools on your list that don’t require the CSS with that may be required.

You are absolutely right that it isn’t fair that her father mess her up again. You are also right that you are not the first to be in this position. On the other hand from the school’s perspective there are limited amounts of funds. If it is easy for a non custodial parent to choose not to financially support their child’s education why would they.

I for one am happy to see my tax dollars/higher tuition payments for my kids go to help low income students go to college but I’m not very happy to see financial aid to allow a delinquent parent to get out of doing what is right by their child. I wish there was an easier way to force people like your ex to do the right thing.

I’d also like to echo some of the people upthread. Virginia public schools are wonderful but they aren’t really that much better (if at all) than a wide variety of schools around the country. I do sincerely hope your daughter gets into a good fit school for her that you can afford.

I agree with @Spring16 in #137. I went to GW for grad school in the 80’s and was there last year touring the school with my son. Since I was there, they have massively upgraded the quality of the academic buildings and tried to make the campus feel more “campus like”. The Mt Vernon campus (previously an all-girls college) is just outside Georgetown and is in a lovely area of DC. Your daughter may feel more comfortable living there than the main campus. For a history major, one year in DC might be a truly great experience.

@carolinamom2boys - We did list our D’s W&M and UVA public school admissions and instate cost in negotiating with a private school (Oberlin) and the private school offered more money as a result. She visited Oberlin and thought W&M was a better fit for her, but the Oberlin offer was generous. Hope this helps @cloudysmom.

Also, please google “The CSS Profile Non-Custodial Waiver Process” to get info on how you go about getting a waiver from having to file your d’s father’s info. You’re right that this does happen and colleges have process for dealing with it, but it involves additional work for you.

To answer your questions on Lehigh and Penn. Lehigh is an excellent school from an academic standpoint and well regarded for engineering. Not as known for humanities. Beautiful campus. Big football school, big Greek presence, reputation as a party school. Not sure based on what you say about your D, that is is a fit.
Penn is one of the most competitive schools in the country to gain admission to. Kids with near perfect scores are routinely rejected. It will be a very big reach

@wisteria100 Oh, lol, I didn’t mean the school Penn, I meant the state and due to having the flu my brain isn’t working so well and I blanked on the abbreviation for PA, lol. I know she could not get into Penn! I meant she was open to PA schools near Philly. Yes, I had heard that about Lehigh, just wondering what you thought. It doesn’t seem the greatest fit for her.

Typically the rule of thumb for negotiating tuition @VAOptimist is the school should be of the same caliber or higher to negotiate for merit. CofC is not of the same caliber as the schools that she was attempting to be accepted to. W and M and UVA are selective schools and that is most likely why they were willing to negotiate with you for merit at Oberlin.

I agree with @wisteria100 in #151, Lehigh is more engineering/science oriented. It is also more of a football/party/frat school and doesn’t seem like a fit for someone whose first choice is W&M, I’d look at nearby Lafayette which is more humanities oriented. IDK about football at Villanova, I thought basketball was big there. Have you considered American University in DC, it has a more self contained campus. You can also look at US News College rankings online and if you look up W&M it shows other similar schools people have applied to, so that could give your daughter some more ideas. Tell your daughter not to be discouraged, my D2 was rejected ED from an LAC she had her heart set on, she’d even met with a coach at the school who said they’d love to have her on the team (I won’t say which sport) and encouraged her to apply ED - she was shocked and devastated when she got rejected, but fast forward 4 months and she got into an Ivy that she would have never thought possible, so things DO have a way of working out.

Not a college student, but I am from VA and I know a lot of my friends who go to UVA and WM. UVA is definitely the hardest, but not impossible and they care a lot more about numbers and stats way more than a lot of top universities, even some of the ivies! Seriously, you don’t really need many ECs to get in (might be a different admissions process for OOS applicants?). It is sort of the same thing with WM, but it is slightly easier to get into because they accept slightly lower stats. not sure about UR, though.

But I also think the atmosphere and social scene is incredibly important for your daughter. I think everyone in VA can agree that WM and UVA are polar opposites. WM is suitable for the artsy, intellectual, and introverted (but I do know a few very social people who go there too), and UVA is definitely more greek, preppy, and unfortunately, cliquey.

People who go there or who have visited told me that the asians hang out w/the asians, and whites hang out with the whites. You have no idea how many times I have heard then tell me that they are applying here, but they don’t want to go. It is INCREDIBLY preppy, probably the most preppy school. Seriously, it will be like you stepped foot into an Abercrombie magazine when you get there! However, the people who go there are also very smart and work hard (obviously, cause how do you think that they got in in the first place haha). UVA is a great school for extroverts and people who want to get involved in sororities/athletics, but there are still many quiet people who go!

I am not discouraging you from going either school. I know a lot of people who really want to go to/love UVA, and people who love WM or tell me that the campus is depressing and the students look sad. My point is that she must be aware of the social scenes of these schools and visit for herself! I know people say that in every college everyone will fit in somewhere, but I feel like UVA is suited for a certain type of people, and WM is more suited for another. both are academically outstanding. I am sure you guys will be visiting these schools if she gets into them which is possible considering she has a high gpa (whats her GPA?), but just trying to give you a heads up!

^^ I agree about American U. I read somewhere that AU is a great backup for kids who wanted to go to WM as there are similarities (size, both are strong in IR bad business). I think that GW is a bit stronger academically than AU however.

@londondad I agree GW has many great points and would be amazing for a history major. I looked online and it seems they have more of a campus than I thought. The problem is that at 68K they are by far the most $ choice and even thought it is not a private school, they say they do not provide 100% of need. There are other schools we are considering that do so I think GW may be out.

@VAOptimist I am googling it and will make a call or 2 Monday to see about the waiver as I have no police or court reports that a waiver seems to require. I’m OK with extra work as long as it works out in the end.

@Spring16 and @camwow Thank you both for your encouragement and thoughts on schools, it really helps SO much! I was getting the impression that LeHigh was not going to be her cup of tea but now it seems it’s not at all a fit. Thank you for sharing your stories - I know she will be happy elsewhere than W&M, and she can always try to transfer, I do think things have a way of working out for a reason but she doesn’t share those views.

And thanks for the VA schools suggestions, W&M is just so a perfect fit for her,e ven the girls we saw walking around campus (we visited 3 times and she went to summer school there for 3 wks last summer) Its like they created a school just for her, lol. We took tour at UVA and I didn’t get that preppie vibe however it was just a few hrs so I certainly don’t know. It seems big enough for there to be a place for her but she did not love it. It’s a very long shot she would get in, VERY and she’d rather be at Univ of RIchmond - is that any easier to get in? If so I imagine only a little however we are OOS so as it’s a private school they do not have the 65% in state student rule so I would think that would open up her chances?

We did run the tool for schools like W&M - it seems MW is usually at the top of the list. It seems many steps below academically but if she transfers to W&M it’s just for 1 yr and the campus and surrounding historic area seems just perfect for her. The don’t have the aid resources however so I worry about cost. Looks like she can probably get in but after her rejection from W&M I’m not taking anything for granted! Any thoughts on a comparison of the 2 schools? They seem to have very good study abroad, which is a priority. She is applying UR ED@ and as it’s a much better school she will go if she gets in, but if no, it seems MW is the closest fit for her. Would appreciate any and all opinions on this though!!
@camwow her GPA weighted was 4.3