Help Me Debunk University Consulting Prep School Myths

<p>Hey Everyone!</p>

<p>So I am currently in quite a frustrating situation and I need some help convincing my parents. For the past few days, I have been taken to around 4 prep schools where college admission consultants analyzed my grades, standardize exams, and extra-curricular activities. Here are some of the things they said:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>You do not have a chance at top 10 universities if you don't have at least 2300 on the SATs (excluding URMs). And even if you have a 2250, you still have to retake, because that's too low. </p></li>
<li><p>A 750 on SAT Math is a must, even if you are applying for a Humanities major.</p></li>
<li><p>Students with 750-790 on SAT IIs are screwed, because they don't have perfect 800s.</p></li>
<li><p>If you don't have an above 2250 SAT score, schools will trash your application in the first round.</p></li>
<li><p>Standardized exams count for 70% in the admission process, the rest 30%.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>These are all I can think of for now. They don't really talk much about extra-curriculars, just a lot of emphasis on scores. I don't agree with all of them, yet at the same time I do not have substantial evidence or arguments to refute them. My parents are now making me do 5+ hours of SAT Math every day (because I'm "only" getting a 700), and basically won't listen to anything I have to say.</p>

<p>It would be much appreciated if anyone can help me debunk some of these myths! </p>

<p>Some data on Harvard’s entering frosh SAT scores that disprove #1, #2, #4, and #5 (at least for Harvard):</p>

<p><a href=“The Harvard Crimson | Class of 2017”>http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=444”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=444&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Do those college admission consultants sell test preparation services?</p>

<p>Your parents couldn’t be more wrong. The most selective schools in the country don’t work like that, and here’s the proof, using the top 5 universities, according to USNews (2014).</p>

<p>PRINCETON:</p>

<p>“We look for students who make a difference in their schools and communities, so tell us about your leadership activities, interests, special skills and other extracurricular involvements. Tell us if you’ve had a job or a responsibility in your home. Most Princeton students were academic standouts in high school. Most of them also invested their energy and talents in significant ways outside the classroom. We want to know what you care about, what commitments you have made and what you’ve done to act on those commitments.”
(<a href=“https://www.princeton.edu/admission/applyingforadmission/requirements/”>https://www.princeton.edu/admission/applyingforadmission/requirements/&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>“All applicants must also take two SAT Subject Tests.
Applicants who intend to pursue a B.S.E. degree should take one SAT Subject Test in either physics or chemistry and one SAT Subject Test in mathematics (Level I or II).” (Notice only B.S.E) (<a href=“https://www.princeton.edu/admission/applyingforadmission/standardized_testing/”>https://www.princeton.edu/admission/applyingforadmission/standardized_testing/&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>Acceptance Rate for students with 2100-2290 was 7.7%
Acceptance Rate for students with 1900-2090 was 5.2%
I’d hardly call that throwing out applications
(<a href=“https://www.princeton.edu/admission/applyingforadmission/admission_statistics/”>https://www.princeton.edu/admission/applyingforadmission/admission_statistics/&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>HARVARD:</p>

<p>Direct quote from an admissions officer - “Test scores matter less than you think they do and more than you wish they do.” Aimed at parents exactly like yours. </p>

<p>“All applicants must take the SAT or the ACT with the writing component, as well as two Subject Tests.” (note: does not specify which subject tests)</p>

<p>“There are no score cutoffs, and we do not admit “by the numbers.” We take into account your educational background when reviewing your scores. You are free to use the College Board’s Score Choice option and/or the similar option offered by ACT when applying to Harvard.”
(<a href=“https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/application-requirements/application-tips#testing”>https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/application-requirements/application-tips#testing&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>YALE:</p>

<p>“There are no score cutoffs for standardized tests, and successful candidates present a wide range of test results.”</p>

<p>“While there is no hard and fast rule, it is safe to say that performance in school is more important than testing. A very strong performance in a demanding college preparatory program may compensate for modest standardized test scores, but it is unlikely that high standardized test scores will persuade the admissions committee to disregard an undistinguished secondary-school record.” </p>

<p>“Again, we are looking for students who will make the most of Yale and the most of their talents. Knowing how you’ve engaged in the resources and opportunities at your high school gives us an expectation of how you might engage the resources at Yale if admitted.”
(<a href=“What Yale Looks For | Yale College Undergraduate Admissions”>What Yale Looks For | Yale College Undergraduate Admissions)</p>

<p>“All applicants for freshman admission should submit either the SAT and two SAT Subject tests, or the ACT with Writing.” (Does not specify which ones)</p>

<p>“Standardized tests are just one component of a student’s application to Yale and are viewed within the context of the student’s entire file. There is no minimum score required for admission, nor is there a score that will guarantee admission.” (<a href=“Application Instructions & Components | Yale College Undergraduate Admissions”>Application Instructions & Components | Yale College Undergraduate Admissions)</p>

<p>COLUMBIA:</p>

<p>“We look at a variety of factors to help us inform our decision on a candidate including:
-The student’s curriculum and grades - we hope to see that a student is challenging herself or himself with a rigorous course load
-The context of a particular candidate, including family circumstances, secondary school, community, interests and access to resources
-The quality of a student’s involvement in activities beyond the classroom
-The character and personality of a candidate, and the impact she or he will make on our diverse, residential campus
-The candidate’s fit for the distinctive Columbia experience, which includes the Core Curriculum; a both traditionally collegiate and unmistakably urban campus life; and an Ivy League school where curious thinkers come to grow
-Recommendations - which provide evidence of intellectual curiosity and promise, classroom and school and community participation, and overall potential for the candidate to make an impact at Columbia, in the classroom and beyond.” (Note that it doesn’t mention test scores)</p>

<p>“The admissions process at Columbia is a “holistic” one, taking many factors into careful consideration. We do not rely on standardized testing and grades alone and instead look at all parts of every application to help inform our judgment. We read personal statements to try to understand each candidate and what motivates him or her. We read teacher recommendations carefully to understand a candidate’s contributions in the classroom and what that candidate might offer his or her Columbia classmates.”</p>

<p>“Every part of the application matters. In the end our goal is to find the students who are the best fit for Columbia. Each year, there are many more qualified applicants than there are places in our class. With such an appealing pool of applicants, it is the job of the admissions committee to get to know all students and select those that we believe will take greatest advantage of the unique Columbia experience and will offer something meaningful in return to the community.”
(<a href=“Understanding the Process | Columbia Undergraduate Admissions”>http://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/apply/first-year/holistic&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>“Required Standardized Testing:
SAT and two SAT Subject Test scores (for Engineering applicants, Math 1 or 2 and Biology, Physics or Chemistry) or the ACT Assessment with Writing”
(<a href=“http://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/apply/first-year/application-requirements”>http://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/apply/first-year/application-requirements&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>STANFORD:</p>

<p>“There is no minimum GPA or test score; nor is there any specific number of AP or honors courses you must have on your transcript that will secure your admission to Stanford.”</p>

<p>“We want to see your commitment, dedication and genuine interest in expanding your intellectual horizons; both in what you write about yourself and in what others write on your behalf. We want to see the kind of curiosity and enthusiasm that will allow you to spark a lively discussion in a freshman seminar and continue the conversation at a dinner table. We want to see the energy and depth of commitment you will bring to your endeavors, whether that means in a research lab, while being part of a community organization, during a performance or on an athletic field. We want to see the initiative with which you seek out opportunities that expand your perspective and that will allow you to participate in creating new knowledge.”
(<a href=“Holistic Admission : Stanford University”>Page Not Found : Stanford University)</p>

<p>“SAT Subject Tests are recommended but not required. Applicants who do not take SAT Subject Tests will not be at a disadvantage. Because SAT Subject Tests are optional, applicants may use Score Choice to selectively send their SAT Subject Test scores.”
(<a href=“Standardized Testing : Stanford University”>Page Not Found : Stanford University)</p>

<p>(cont.)</p>

<p>UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO:</p>

<p>“There is no minimum GPA or test score.”</p>

<p>“We look for bright students with an unquenchable thirst for knowledge and passion for learning. Show us how you maximized your high school experience and pursued opportunities to develop unique talents.”</p>

<p>“The Office of College Admissions reviews each application on a holistic basis — a complicated name for a very simple concept. The admissions committee considers a candidate’s entire application—academic and extracurricular records, essays, letters of recommendation, and SAT or ACT scores — in order to gain a comprehensive understanding of a student’s qualifications and potential. So take this opportunity to reflect on your strengths, your weaknesses, where you have been, and where you want to go. A holistic reading process should empower you to be yourself!”
(<a href=“Apply | College Admissions”>https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/apply/&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>“We do not require any SAT Subject Tests.”
(<a href=“https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/apply/applicants/firstyear#test-scores”>https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/apply/applicants/firstyear#test-scores&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>Though I have everything (Scores wise) needed, I highly disagree with the assertions. It is much more about the individual, your personality, and what you’ve done outside of school.</p>

<p>@UCBalumus Yes, they do. But they don’t push you to take it at all – they just sincerely believe that you need a 2300 to have a shot at any of the top 10 schools. </p>

<p>Thanks to everyone for the evidence and resources! Especially @snivelus! </p>

<p>I just showed them to my mom, but she brushed it off as “oh, that’s what the universities say to get people to apply. Admissions works differently behind the doors. Plus, prep schools have way more experience than what people on the internet say…”</p>

<p>I’M SO FRUSTRATED. It’s hard to communicate with Asian parents sometimes. </p>

<p>HYPMS are not going to be impressed by yet another asian applicant w perfect SAT scores. They reject lots of these.</p>

<p>You really need to be spending more of your “free time” building the rest of your resume w ECs.</p>

<p>Note that the GPA and SAT chart at <a href=“The Harvard Crimson | Class of 2017”>http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html&lt;/a&gt; indicates that, for a given level of GPA, the 2200-2400 range appears to be of similar density, with 2000-2200 being of lower density. So, if there is any “magic SAT threshold” at Harvard, it is around 2200, not 2300 – but even SAT scores below 2200 do not mean automatic exclusion.</p>

<p>I have a hard time believing the assertions in the original post. What reputable prep school would be associated with college consultants that spew such nonsense? And what reputable college consultants would say such things? I think these assertions might be grossly exaggerated or perhaps just misunderstood.</p>

<p>@Harvest, I think OP means test prep center, like Kaplan, not Andover & Exeter. </p>

<p>For an Asian you probably want a 2300.
Test scores do not make up 70% of the process. Even 30% would be highly generous. Still you probably need to shoot for a 2300 to stay competitive as an Asian AND have lots of impressive extracurriculars AND grades as high as possible. Grades should be your top priority, then worry about other stuff. </p>

<p>OP: Consider who is telling you these numbers and what is their motivation. </p>

<p>Of course they are going to lay out the core stats of most admitted students. They would be amiss to say otherwise and liable to NOT DOING THEIR PAID JOB. </p>

<p>But it would also be a gross generalization to say that those stats are ABSOLUTE cutoffs. I’m not saying you should aim to be an outlier. (I was in an exchange with a person who is going to apply SCEA to Yale with a 3.1GPA and 1740 SAT no matter what). </p>

<p>And I agree with the “BS” call out about 70% of the evaluation are the test scores. Causation vs correlation. Those schools get so many top test scorers that they can cherry pick among hundreds of very high scorers as well as hundreds of high but not stellar scorers. Of course, they’ll end up choosing many high scoring kids because that’s who is in the final pool. But analysis after the fact that many eventual admits had high scores should not lead to the conclusion that the high scores got them in. </p>

<p>This isn’t an Ivy League school, but at Stanford, they reject 80% of the people applying with a perfect 2400. So obviously SATs don’t account for 70% of the admissions process. Pretty much everything they said to you was a lie. It was probably a ploy to get you to commit to their firm and have you spend thousands of dollars with them. I find it hard to believe that paid consultants would be so uninformed about the college admissions process. </p>

<p>And I hope you would not trust your test prep to an organization who sponsors such uniformed consultants. Sounds to me like some kind of scam geared towards getting you to commit to questionable test prep that you most likely do not need.</p>

<p>If your parents insist on additional prep go to one of the reputable companies that have been around for a long time. They are in every community.</p>

<p>Hey Everyone! Thanks for all the great advice.</p>

<p>The prep schools I go to are actually pretty “reputable” in our area. Every year, they get a lot of kids from prestigious boarding schools, and they help many of them get into Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc. I’m sure these students themselves already had amazing stats and extra-curriculars though.</p>

<p>Like @theanaconda said, maybe it just means that Asians have to get scores like 2300+, perfect 800s, and 4.0s.</p>

<p>For reference, I have a 3.88 GPA, 2110 SAT (750 CR, 760 WR, 600 math), a 700 in WH, 800 in Chinese, and taking Lit in October. I am consistently getting 700+ SAT I Math, but they still said it had to be 750+. Even if I’m going for a humanities major. Today morning, my mom went through all my SAT tests and marked each one of them. I think I’m going crazy.</p>

<p>@OP, you’re confusing a lot of people. “Prep school” doesn’t mean what you think it means.</p>

<p>@GMTplus7 Ahh sorry. In Vancouver, we call “consulting schools” prep schools. </p>

<p>if a kid is in a prestigious boarding school, why can’t their schools’ likely very connected guidance departments just help them out</p>

<p>are you international or something?</p>

<p>I don’t believe for a second that there are higher standards for Asians SAT-score wise. </p>

<p>I think Asians, as a cohort, shot themselves in the foot by focusing on the same sort of things. This results in a lot of Asians with extremely similar applications, and the simple fact is that colleges can’t take them all. Every group has this problem. Think about what people saying “ECs weak” really means. It’s not “Your ECs are bad” because there’s no such thing as bad ECs. It’s “Your ECs are similar to everyone else so you’ll have a hard time standing out”. Asians have this problem especially, because the culture emphasizes that there are specific things you can do to get into places - which may be true in Asia, but not in America. </p>

<p>Compound that with a focus on math over the humanities from an early age and a culture that emphasizes studying (the Chinese civil exams have been around since before Harvard was founded…) leading to success. The entire application process is rigged against their culture, and yet many Asians are still amazing students with amazing scores, so many Asians apply. </p>

<p>The result is what we have now, with people thinking that being Asian means you should study more for your SATs, while the opposite is probably true. </p>

<p>@foolish Yes, I’m international (Canadian). We don’t have SATs and American standardized exams here, so there are a lot of prep centers open for lessons and consulting. I’m sure the kids at prestigious boarding schools have private counselors to help them out as well, but most of them still go to prep centers for more consulting.</p>