I am flummoxed and crying out from the wilderness. Here is the situation. Assume a student with a 3.9ish unweighted GPA, max number of APs permitted by the high school, 32-33ish ACT and decent but non earth shattering extra curriculars - lots of school and community theater, four years in jazz band, four year marching band kid with one year as a section leader, keyclub for four years with 2 as president, a couple other school clubs but not in leadership positions. This same hypothetical kid wants to go to a small (<7,500) school away from home and is at this point mostly interested in the “classic” liberal arts schools of a couple thousand kids or less. We have seen several, and there is a pretty nice “first cut” list going on. That part of the search is not the problem. The problem is that all of the schools on the “first cut” list, and on the still to visit list have acceptance rates at or below say 25%.
I understand that the general advice is that a safety school is a school where you can “be sure of admission and that you know you can afford”. Well. In our world that pretty much means a larger (>10,000) state school, which is not somewhere this hypothetical kid would be happy. So looking at the list of schools this hypothetical kid likes, there are a good few where her stats are at or above the 75% line on the most recent common data set. So I wonder, could that be a safety school (for her) even with admit rates at 20% or so? It seems nuts, and hence my quandry. So there is the question. How do you define a safety? Is it based on the admitted stats of the preceding class? Is it dependent on the overall admit rate? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
One fly in the ointment. The high school, while academically rigorous is located in fly over country so there is not a huge amount of naviance data out there for the schools we are looking at.
I’m sure the experts here on CC have lots of suggestions for liberal arts safeties but here’s one my own daughter chose: Earlham. Small LAC with an admit rate of 65 percent.
Definitions of “safety school” can be flexible, depending on who you ask. For me, it comes down to admissions and financial certainty; happiness of the student at the prospect of attending is not a consideration. I base this on a situation at our high school a few years ago where a smart senior applied to all the Ivy League schools, plus a bunch of other high prestige-low acceptance colleges; but she didn’t apply to the public flagship university – perhaps she felt that it was beneath her to do so. Well, she got turned down by every single school that she applied to (imagine her surprise!) except, very late in the game and as her final hope, a school where she was a legacy. Because of this close call, our school’s guidance counselors made/encouraged all seniors to apply to the large public flagship university – not necessarily because it was a place that a student preferred to study at, but because for many of our students it was the ultimate safety net – that is, it was the last thing between a student and absolute disaster.
Following the recommendations of our guidance counselors, we had our oldest child apply to our large public flagship university, where she was accepted with scholarships, invitation to the honors program, etc. – even though she had no intention of attending. But it was there, JUST IN CASE.
This is a lengthy way of getting to my point, which is that your child should apply to the large public flagship of your state, even though your child may not prefer to attend; but it will at least give you some peace of mind and assurance that your child will be accepted somewhere – because who knows what calculus an admissions officer employs to fill up a class?
In regard to your specific questions, I would say that a safety school, from the admissions perspective, is one that has a high admit rate AND is one where your child has stats at or above the 75% line on the most recent common data set. If your school has Naviance, look at the scattergrams for various schools that you are considering; that may give you some insight as to how your child compares with other students at her high school in regards to admission at the schools in question.
For some specific LAC safeties, this link might be of use: http://ctcl.org/
It is possible that a student with very limiting preferences has no safeties that meet all of the criteria of being certain for admission, certain for affordability, and places that s/he likes.
The increasing trend of colleges using “level of applicant’s interest” to reject or waitlist “overqualified” applicants who appear to be using them as “safeties” means that the potential safety school set is further reduced.
That said, many of the small public LAC-type schools listed at http://www.coplac.org are not that selective or expensive (e.g. University of Minnesota - Morris, Truman State). But an argument can be made that a large school is better for a safety where one is at one of the tail ends of the student academic distribution, since a large school is likely to have big enough tail ends for it to be worth offering more suitable courses for the students in the tail ends (e.g. honors courses).
A safety school is one you CAN AFFORD, in addition to having high likelihood of admission for the candidate.
There’s no set % admission rate which characterizes a safety school. What’s a safety school for one candidate may be a reach for another. Example: for Malia Obama, all schools are safety schools.
I’d find a school she likes with rolling admissions, apply early, and then have that acceptance in her pocket before all the applications are due. She could pick a smaller state school, a less selective LAC, a big state school. Basically one of her ‘must haves’ is going to have to bend a little to get that safety - size, cost, rank. Which factor is most flexible for her?
My D2 was pretty high stats (higher test scores, but lower GPA than your D). We did a lot of visiting, and she applied to a pretty wide range of schools. From looking at the Common Data Set and reviewing accepted student threads out here, we were pretty sure she would get in and get merit from the bottom half of her list. We discussed it with her guidance counselor, who agreed. She was very careful to show interest at all the schools that cared about it, and wrote strong “Why College X?” essays. She ended up getting in every place she applied, including UChicago, Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd, Carleton, Macalester (with merit), Kenyon (with merit), Mount Holyoke (with great merit), and Lawrence (with great merit).
Have you looked at Dickinson? They accept 48% of applicants, give merit aid, and your D would be a strong applicant there. It was one of my D1’s safeties, and she decided to attend with merit aid. She had a great experience, graduated Phi Beta Kappa, and got a job she loves through an alumni connection. Your D seems like a strong applicant to Mount Holyoke (beautiful campus, strong academic focus, part of consortium), or St. Olaf – likely she could continue some of her music activities there.
My daughter was also high stats (NMF, salutatorian, 2340 SAT), and asked a similar question. We cautioned her that any school with an admit rate below 30% is not a safety, no matter how good her stats. Sure, your student has a good chance of being admitted to many schools with admit rates that low, but it’s always good to apply to one school in the >50% range.
The “Colleges That Change Lives” list will give you a good starting point list of smaller colleges & LAC’s with higher admit rates – See http://ctcl.org/category/college-profiles/ for the list. Some of these schools have gotten more selective over the years, but there are still many that fit the definition of “hidden gems.”
A couple of west coast options: Lewis & Clark & Willamette, both in Oregon.
I’m sure there are a lot of opinions on this, but some gc’s would say that if your scores put you at the 75% line, that would be a match not a safety. For a school to be a safety the score would need to be above the 75% mark. So if your child is at a 32, then a safety would be a school where the high end of the mid 50 range is a 30, or if the school has an admit rate of over 40% then maybe a 31. That being said, there will be many LACs that meet this criteria, so if your child is not interested in the state flagship you still have lots of options.
Dickinson, Trinity, Muhlenberg, Denison, Wooster, Hobart, St Lawrence, Gertysburg and more. And if the score is 33 not 32, Conn College, Holy Cross, Bucknell, Lafatette and more
Different people have different comfort levels with what they call a safety. We used our high school’s Navinance scattergrams. My son chose a tech school which at the time had about a 60% admit rate while still having average SAT scores of more than 1300/1800. He was a kid with stellar stats and it looked like a sure thing. (Its acceptance rates went down to 40% after it got named a new Ivy, so be aware things can change overnight!) At any rate they let him know in early November that he was in and would be getting a merit award. Younger son picked a college with about a 45% acceptance rate, again the school Naviance showed it to be safe. My favorite safety though is the school you get into early. Younger son used to joke that his safety was U of Chicago. He applied EA and got in. Since he hadn’t visited he wasn’t sure he wanted to attend, but on paper it had everything he wanted.
I agree, not only should you have a safety - you should have two. For many the state university is a logical choice - they offer everything and honors programs may help make them feel smaller. Finding good LACs is more of a challenge. Fiske’s guides if you like __, you might like feature can be helpful. As can people on CC.
For safeties look to another geographic location. Look at single sex schools (especially for young women). Look at small engineering schools. Most guys will have slightly better than the published odds at LACs (especially ones that used to be women’s colleges), while most young women have an advantage at the tech schools.
Check out the CTCL schools for your child’s safety. Most are small LACs who usually admit the B/B+ student with acceptance rates closer to 50% or higher. One school to check out is Hendrix College. It has an acceptance rate of 80%. I think the applicants are self-selecting because 32 is the top range of their middle 50% and they say the average GPA is 4.0 or 3.9. Other possibilities include Lawrence, Earlham, St. Olafs, Beloit, and Willamette. My personal favorite is New College of Florida but I know that’s an unusual place.
.>>>>
Right now, an unweighted 4.0 at an all girls college prep school.
Obviously no SAT/ACT results, but has tested in the top 2-3% on standardized tests her whole life.
Really strong math/science student, but despite her father’s pleading, has no current interest in engineering or “hard” sciences.
Very involved in theater, both at the high school and in various community theaters.
Band kid, typical extra curriculars of a young UMC girl who wants to go to a “good school”
Current student goals are a small-ish college with a strong theater/social work/public policy program. Wants to be out of state (we are in Ohio). Would prefer a city but I don’t think that is a deal breaker.
Would like a school with generous aid because she plans on taking a shot at theater for a couple years after graduation, and consequently wants no debt. We will help with school costs but can’t swing full pay at a lot of schools without loans.
Current Mom goals - someplace she will be happy. Dad goals - nunnery, all girls school or as a last resort a school with a good blend of fine arts and STEM so she can actually get a job if she doesn’t end up trodding the boards.
She is getting quite a lot of junk mail from U Chicago, so is interested in looking there. She also likes Notre Dame, although it doesn’t seem to fit any of the things she says she is looking for in a school other than it is not close to home. Personally, I think she would be very happy at some of the NESCACs her brother looked at, particularly Williams.
College Navigator will give you a quick snapshot of any college. Under Admissions you will find the admission rate broken down by gender and, usually, the middle 50% of test scores.
A college with admissions at 20% IMO does NOT qualify as a safety. Period. I required over 50% admit rate to qualify as a safety, as well as the student falling on the high end of stats. For a student with high stats, any school with an admit rate over 50% will probably qualify.
A couple of colleges I checked did not have their test scores posted on College Navigator, in which case you may find them in their CDS (Common Data Set) which you can search for on any college’s website. Lots of valuable info in there. Sounds like you are already hip to the CDS.
Of course my advice only helps once you have a college in mind. As another poster mentioned, we also found useful the guidebook features like “students who applied to X also applied to Y.” Naviance has that feature too. Also you can search or google for college peer groups (designated by colleges themselves, sometimes multiple peer groups for different purposes).
Go to the cc forum for any college she’s already interested in and look for titles like “Macalester or Beloit” or whatever. We got pointed to some schools through posts like that.
And then ultimately you have to make a judgment call about chance of admission and financial expectations. I found the naviance scattergrams really helpful, but sounds like they are not working that way for you. Safeties for admission were just really obvious without doing any kind of analysis. Overlapping schools were just a click away. Then I just had to tackle the financial angle.
The CDS can help if you want to analyze financial aid. You can find average loan for freshmen, average loan for all students, average % of need met, average need-based and non-need-based grant/scholarship award, % of students whose full need was met (remember that providing loans counts as part of meeting full need), and all kinds of other good information.
I second Muhlenberg for a theater kid with those stats. Also second a rolling or EA school. My LAC/theater oriented kid found that in Beloit and Clark.
A college with a lower admit rate can still be an admission safety for some, if the lower admit rate is based on a weaker applicant pool. It can also be an admission safety for some if it has published automatic admission criteria, like the University of Texas - Austin with a 40% admission rate.
Also, different levels of selectivity can apply to different divisions or majors within a school. For example, the University of Washington has a 55% admission rate, but a student seeking direct admission to the computer science major there probably should not consider it to be an admission safety no matter how high his/her stats are. The aforementioned University of Texas - Austin also has some majors where automatic admission to the school does not necessarily mean automatic admission to the major. A student looking for a direct admission nursing major may find it hard to find safeties, since the nursing major is often much more selective than general admission to the school it is in.
At schools which consider “level of applicant’s interest”, an “overqualified” applicant needs to show interest in a way that the school recognizes, rather than assuming that it can be a safety if s/he just applies.