Help me find a school, please.

Parents Social Lounge
1

<p>My school doesn't have counselors.</p>

<p>Race:Black
Gender:Male
GPA:3.8UW
Rank: 4/90
ACT: 28
High school: Sends no one to top schools. Ever.
State: Michigan</p>

<p>ECs
Art Club
FIRST Robotics
National Honors Society
Some non-profit work
Working(?)
Helped with local theater production</p>

<p>Course load
No AP's/Honors (not offered)</p>

<p>Reccs
One will be good
The other will be written by yours truly and signed by the teacher (that's how teachers do reccs here for the most part)</p>

<p>Essays
Good</p>

<p>EFC is definitely around 0.</p>

<p>Additional Info:</p>

<p>I received my diploma from my high school, but got my education from my local library. My high school was terrible.</p>

<p>Problem:
I'm working this year. Not going to a foreign country. Not saving starving kids in Africa, just working (if I can find another job).</p>

<p>I'm looking for a mid-sized 2,00-15,000 university, preferably in the Midwest or Northeast. The South is OK too. I prefer an urban or suburban school. I'm interested mainly in business, economics, art, engineering (possibly). The school has to give out significant need-based aid or gift-aid (if my stats are good enough).</p>

<p>Don't be afraid to suggest a less-than selective school. Don't be afraid to suggest and super selective school (got a friend that go into Rice, Carleton, and Williams with ACT and GPA that's lower, about same ECs and went to a far better school, too)</p>

<p>So far I have only four schools, and I'm pretty sure they're all reaches but I think I have a shot -- someone's got to make up the bottom 25%.</p>

<p>Emory U
WUSTL (yes, I know)
CMU
UVA (out of state)</p>

<p>Help me look for a school please. Thanks!</p>

<p>** Does coming from a bad school account for anything?</p>

2

<p>If you want engineering you could try for Michigan.</p>

3

<p>FIRST Robotics can be quite a hook. You don't say what you did for the team, or whether you liked engineering. However, if you did like FIRST, and you enjoyed team engineering, WPI (Worcester Polytechnic, Massachusetts) does a lot of team engineering and should be accessible to you.</p>

<p>I think you're also well within range for RPI (Renssaelaer Polytechnic) if you like engineering.</p>

<p>Your situation should be very appealing to some schools (you'd add a lot to their diversity indices and you appear to have a brain). I would recommend a few phone calls to schools that appeal to you. Ask to speak to one of the admissions counselors and tell them exactly what you said here. Ask their advice. Don't tell them you're dying to come to their school--unless it's true--but ask them what advice they have for you. Don't be upset if they don't have time... but I expect they will.</p>

<p>Certain schools come from a strong ethic of community service--Haverford and Swarthmore come immediately to mind--and their counselors might be willing to help you. Reed might enjoy your quirky application situation, but they are notoriously poor about financial aid. Still, it wouldn't hurt to call them and ask about applying.</p>

<p>Lewis and Clark in Portland, OR is very generous with merit and need aid, and has great international relations programs.</p>

<p>And good luck.</p>

<p>Oh, and if you're writing your own recommendation and the teacher will sign it--make it a good strong recommendation!</p>

4

<p>I was the "electronics/pneumatics team leader", but I ended up doing a little of everything. I was also the mascot. I loved robotics. A lot.</p>

5

<p>Michigan State or University of Michigan because you're in-state.</p>

6

<p>ses has suggested a couple of very good in-state options if you really are interested in robotics. They are large schools, of course, not the small/mid you have expressed a preference for. On the other hand, they offer strong programs in a variety of fields, and you don't seem set on one thing.</p>

<p>I hate to bring up money, but it really is something that must be at the forefront of your deliberations. Having an EFC of zero (possibly) does not mean you will be expected to pay nothing. Have your parents started to do the paperwork for FAFSA and/or PROFILE? Even if your family comes up with Zero on the do-it-yourself EFC calculators, you must prove the facts to the schools you apply to. You need to start talking with your family ASAP about getting the necessary paperwork together.</p>

<p>I am not very familiar with the state-school options in Michigan outside of Michigan State and Univ. of MI. There are other posters who are, if I am not mistaken, and I hope they will join this thread and make some useful suggestions.</p>

<p>In my opinion--not an expert one--the schools you have listed in the original post seem like far reaches to me, just based on the ACT score and the lack of honors coursework. I would hate to see you put together a list that does not include good safety schools, safe for both financial and admissions concerns.</p>

<p>Who was your FIRST mentor? Is it a teacher, a college prof, or a parent who knows the ropes about getting into college? It sounds like you were a strong and enthusiastic part of the team, and the mentor could be a person who could help you a lot with this quest.</p>

<p>I am guessing the reason you have included Carnegie Mellon Univ. in your initial list is because of their robotics program. If I am not mistaken, robotics is available as a minor to students in either the Carnegie Institute of Technology (CIT, the engineering school) or the School of Computer Science (SCS). Neither is easy to get into, particularly SCS. Both require two SAT II Subject tests, math and one science (physics or chem for CIT, but bio is OK for SCS). Have you taken the SAT II tests yet? How did you do on them? (If you haven't, you need to check the fall test schedule and make arrangements.)</p>

7

<p>This is a long shot, but have you looked into Questbridge? Google it, find the home page that describes the program, then look at the profiles of the students who have been chosen in the past. Your ACT of 28 is on the low side, but not too far below the average SAT when it is converted.</p>

<p>I noticed that Rice University (Houston) is listed as one of the participating schools, and that school could be a nice match for you.</p>

<p>The deadline for the first step is the end of September, I think.</p>

<p>(I don't know if the gap year will be a problem or not. The poster xiggi seems to know a lot about the Questbridge program. Perhaps a PM to him is in order.)</p>

8

<p>I was going to suggest WPI as well. They also have an awesome major called: Interactive Media and Gaming Development. Thought my S the GAMER would be thrilled since he's a 24/7 "GAMER!" LOL!</p>

<p>My S also looked into the School of Technology not the Engineering School) at Northeastern University (Massachussetts). They had lots of Robotics-type, hands-on techie stuff AND they have a great Internship Program. You go to classes your Freshman year, then the first semester Soph. year. 2nd semester you start alternating an internship for 6 months and then 6 months classwork. The internships are PAID internships (and the Dean of the School of Tech. informed us that the Engineering/Techies are the highest paid!). Its a 5-year program. Drexel University has a similar 4 year program. What a great resume you'll have at the end and hopefully some $$ saved as well!!</p>

<p>Good luck in your search! Sounds like you are a terrific young man that ANY school should be proud to have as a student!!</p>

9

<p>I love your profile and I'm betting a lot of Admissions Committees will too.</p>

<p>Couple of comments: Working instead of doing some "glamorous" EC is <em>not</em> a problem. Not. And it is an EC. Don't worry about it. Be proud of it.</p>

<p>Does coming from a bad school account for anything? Well, yes. And it can work two ways. Many applicants are helped by coming from great high schools with a track record of getting kids into the schools they're targetting. OTOH, "rising above" a poor school, as you clearly have; taking the initiative to make your own quality education - that is a hook as well.</p>

<p>Here are some to consider: Tulane (but only has two Engineering programs at the moment (BME and ChemE); is adding Engineering Physics, I think;strong on merit aid and need-based;recently in Newsweek's Hot 25; Lehigh; Villanova; Fairfield; Trinity; Tufts; Case Western; Miami of Ohio; St. Louis U, Vanderbilt.</p>

<p>If you would consider the West Coast, check out Santa Clara University. I think you might get merit aid there, as well as the need based.</p>

<p>I think those cover a range of selectivity for you and most should be strong on aid of either or both types. </p>

<p>I don't know about the aid profile for these, but you might consider: GWU, American. </p>

<p>If your school doesn't have counselors, you have come to the right place. We will <em>be</em> your counselors the whole way, if you would like. All of the expertise you need is here, on every aspect. And the Parent Forum is a place of great good will for students such as yourself.</p>

<p>BTW, your username implies a gap year. Are you about to do it? in it? Just wondering how that might play into your application/essays etc.</p>

<p>For the reachiest of schools, your ACT might be a holdback. So you may want to take a look at some of the top schools which are SAT/ACT optional. I tend to be familiar with the more LAC-type among them (Bates, Bowdoin), but you can scan the list at <a href="http://www.fairtest.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fairtest.org&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p>

<p>Best of luck and keep us posted.</p>

10

<p>jmmom suggested St. Louis University. I was about to do the same. It is urban, but has a very nice campus. While technically a Catholic university, there is no religious requirement for attendance. The size is good for your stated preferences. </p>

<p>I know a young man, an international student who has lived in the US for several years, who was interested in St. Louis Univ but did not apply because he thought he had to be Catholic. The deadline for application had already passed when I discovered his misunderstanding, but when he contacted them and explained, they welcomed his application, and admitted him. When they discovered his dire financial situation, exacerbated by immigration problems on the part of his parents, they did everything they could to help him and offered a very generous scholarship. I know other stories about how this university offers personalized and generous assistance to promising students. Think about this one.</p>

11

<p>Several of the schools I've suggested are Catholic and none have a requirement to be Catholic (or to be an observant Catholic, if you are one). Most students (although maybe not all) could be comfortable at these U's even if not Catholic. </p>

<p>The OP's size and location requirements happen to fit a lot of Catholic U's as well as, of course, several that aren't.</p>

12

<p>Thank you for the suggestions. I appreciate it.</p>

<p>I looked up Questbridge and it turns out that I'm no longer eligible for the program. I wish I had learned of it last year -- those universities are awesome and I think I would have had a shot (a chance at least). </p>

<p>I'm now looking at a few more realistic choices:</p>

<p>Furman
Fordham
Northeastern</p>

<p>I really need schools with good merit or need-based aid.</p>

13

<p>Check out Calvin College, Grand Rapids. It has excellent need-based aid, and you would have a good chance of acceptance. It is a regionally highly rated liberal arts college of about 4,200 students. My husband, black male, first generation college, low income background, went there and had an excellent education and is now a college professor after doing very well in his chosen career.</p>

<p>Calvin is a Christian college affiliated with the Christian Reformed Church, but you don't have to be Christian to attend. It is considered liberal by the standards of most Christian colleges in that it's OK to do things like dance on campus.</p>

<p>From its website: "US News & World Report ranks Calvin number one in the category of Best Midwest Comprehensive Colleges. Calvin also ranked first in its category in peer assessment, a rating that measures how presidents, provosts and deans of admissions view the quality of Calvin's academics."</p>

<p>Here's a link: <a href="http://www.calvin.edu/prospective/glance/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.calvin.edu/prospective/glance/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Considering that your EFC is 0, I suggest that your best chances for an affordable college experience probably would be by going in-state. Remember that things like transportation also will add to your costs.</p>

<p>Also check out more of your in-state publics like Northern Mich. U., Michigan Tech. and Central Michigan U. Consider, too, starting at community college and then transferring to a four-year college.</p>

<p>Since you are in need of money, consider working a second job, too. Your work history will help you in admission. If you work an extra job, that demonstration of a high level of motivation also will help you with admissions.</p>

<p>Another college that might be a good match for you and give you the aid you need is Earlham in Richmond, Indiana. It is well regarded and listed in the book Colleges that Change Lives. It also has good financial aid.</p>

<p>Both Calvin and Earlham have small classes and professors who take a lot of interest in their students. Both could offer you an excellent education as well as the guidance you need to catch up academically after going to a weak high school.</p>

<p>Berea College is a Christian college in Kentucky that accepts only low income students and offers them free tuition. It is well regarded.</p>

<p>"Berea offers aid to every student.</p>

<p>Since they pay no tuition, Berea students receive the equivalent of a four year scholarship worth up to $85,000.
Fees and other expenses are covered by student work in the Labor Program, as well as other grants and scholarships. <a href="http://www.berea.edu/publicrelations/quickfacts/default.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.berea.edu/publicrelations/quickfacts/default.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

14

<p>Beef-up your charitable work. Like now. Make a point of retaking the ACT . Score choice is your friend. Search xiggi method. It works for ACT, also. Then make application to Vassar, Wesleyan, pretty much any place that has 13 black males on campus and gives 100% of need, and/or at which you will be especially in demand. Reverse commute. Rural to city. Wyoming to the Northeast. Males to Vassar. African American yankee ;) males to Vanderbilt. You can make yourself a very compelling candidate with a little research and a little effort. </p>

<p>Shill alert- My D attends Rhodes. Rhodes has a scholarship program that rivals anyone's. Deep and wide. Diversity numbers are up 2% this year and they are crowing. Realize that's up 2% to a total 17%. (That's not even light rye yet, is it? LOL ) They have a Bonner Scholars program for committed community service kids that you could clean up on. </p>

<p>You have a nice profile. Crap high school. African -American Yankee Male. Not too shabby ACT and good rank. Screams Vandy to me. </p>

<p>As emeril might say, let's kick it up a notch. Let's go. Get busy. You are burning daylight. ;)</p>

15

<p>Curmudgeon says "screams Vandy to me".</p>

<p>I just returned from Vanderbilt, where I attended a few speeches and more personal gatherings aimed at grieving parents of freshmen. I was once again impressed with the attention given to the undergraduate program and the apparent concern of faculty and administration with the welfare of undergraduates. </p>

<p>There is an active robotics program in the School of Engineering, and they welcome undergraduate involvement.</p>

<p>African American females from a variety of places were not completely unrepresented, and seemed pleased to be at Vanderbilt. There was a dearth of African American males, however, and I feel confident saying that the admissions folks would love to rectify that situation. I second cur's recommendation. You have nothing to lose. Visit if you can; I know there is Greyhound service because my son has already investigated it, and I think there is a good chance you can talk Vanderbilt into buying you a ticket if they like your application.</p>

<p>Play up your many strengths, including your enthusiasm for the First robotics competition. I liked the part about the library being your real school, so my personal recommendation is to mention that you have taken full advantage of that sort of resource.</p>

16

<p>If you loved FIRST robotics, you will probably love engineering (not just robotics).</p>

<p>Possibilities based on FIRST participation:</p>

<p>Rose Hulman
WPI
RPI
Case Western
Rochester Institude of Technology
Delaware
Wayne State (?)</p>

<p>Dream big but don't get you hopes up too high</p>

<p>MIT
Franklin W. Olin (Free tuition for everyone)
CMU</p>

<p>Think out of the box:</p>

<p>Print out Curmudgeon's post and read it every morning and every night.</p>

17

<p>One thing to add is that if you want to apply to Rice or CMU, they require SAT II's. Vanderbilt recommends them. </p>

<p>A school to add is Lafayette, great business, econ and engineering depts. Looking to increase diversity.</p>

<p>I'm in agreement with Cur, work on your ACT's, take those SAT II's and you should have a lot of options. I think that Rice would be a great choice also. I love that it meets need and caps loans at 14,000 (It's pretty close to that amount).</p>

<p>In state, look at Michigan Tech. Great school and very nurturing. I hear that they are very generous with merit aid for in-state students.</p>

18

<p>from Curmudgeon's post:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Beef-up your charitable work.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Curmudgeon makes this suggestion because he knows that a lot of merit awards are based at least partly on evidence of commitment to community service. I'm repeating it because I know that Vanderbilt, as one example, places a lot of emphasis on getting its undergraduates out into the Nashville community; much of the volunteer work is in the public schools. Every one of the talks I attended this weekend mentioned how proud the school is of the considerable service record of the incoming class. Even if this effort does not make you eligible for a merit award, it probably would increase your chances of admission at some reach schools, and could alter the grant/loan ratio of the financial aid offer.</p>

<p>If you are working a daytime job that makes volunteering in the schools during daytime hours difficult, why don't you consider joining (or starting) a project at the public library aimed at increasing library use by kids from families that can't or don't buy books? You (and I, BTW) used libraries to supplement our educations; this is a great opportunity to pass the secret on to other kids who haven't discovered this resource.</p>

19

<p>OP. midmo and I are riding the same horse. Merit is not always just good grades and test scores. Sometimes a component of merit is something else you bring to the table. In your case , community service. I'll use Rhodes as an example again (because I know it best). Rhodes is NOT need blind. Does NOT fund 100% of need. Has an extensive merit scholarship and fellowship program. Needs diversity and is actively seeking it. Loves geo diversity , too (72-75% out of state). </p>

<p>Let's take the Bonner program.
[quote]
Bonner Scholarships: The Bonner Scholarships are for students who have demonstrated an exceptional record of leadership and service participation in their communities and who wish to become effective leaders who promote positive change in the world. The Bonner Scholarships are awarded on a competitive basis and support fifteen first-year students who rank in the top 15% of their high school class, have an SAT composite score (Critical Reading and Math) of 1220 or higher OR ACT composite score of 26 or higher, and demonstrate an outstanding record of leadership, community service and/or social justice work. </p>

<p>To be eligible, the student’s family must have an Expected Family Contribution (EFC) below $7,500 (with a few exceptions made for outstanding candidates) and the CSS PROFILE (later followed by the FAFSA) must be filed with Rhodes by January 15. Scholarships are valued at $12,100 and are in addition to any Rhodes grant or scholarship the student may receive. Bonner Scholars are also awarded funding for two summer service projects, access to a community fund to support service projects, and up to $1,600 for the purpose of reducing total educational loan indebtedness upon graduation from Rhodes.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Look at what that can mean to you. Need calculations show EFC of zero. Scholarship $12,100. Maybe there is another small merit scholarship. It adds to, doesn't get offset by, the Bonner. There may be money there to pay (offset) loans and workstudy and books and travel (as calculated by the estimated COA) AND take care of any need "gap" regular need FA left. Very exciting.</p>

<p>Other schools have something like this, too and that includes need-only schools. Most of these programs are looking for kids who fit a category of "doers". "See a problem. Fix a problem". There is something you can do in your community that maybe only you see. Find it and within your abilities and resources design and implement a solution, or a small step towards a solution. It will do your community good, it will do your soul good and it will give you a heckuva essay topic. Gotta run. Think about it. You can do this. What about midmo's library idea? That provides a heckuva theme, huh?</p>

20

<p>It seems to me that a black male with a 3.8 unweighted GPA and a 28 on the ACT would be a VERY attractive candidate at almost any school in the country and, given his financial situation, would get full scholarships at many schools.</p>

<p>But I have another concern. Engineering programs are notoriously difficult, even for very well-prepared students. Through no fault of his own, the OP may simply not be prepared to succeed academically at strong engineering schools like WPI and RPI, where most of the student body will have extremely strong math backgrounds. So looking closely at the level of academic support at a school should be critical. In addition, considering nonelite schools such as Stevens Tech and RIT might be a thought (I wouldn't be worried about the job prospects for a black engineer with the obvious smarts of the OP).</p>