Help me find a school, please.

<p>Hampshire is very interesting and unusual, although not considered academically on par with Amherst or Brown. </p>

<p>Hampshire was founded in the l960's by the other 4 colleges in the Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts (Amherst College, UMass at Amherst, Smith, Mt. Holyoke) for a new kind of college where a student would be encouraged to take advantage of courses at all four of the established places. </p>

<p>It might still be true that they don't require SAT's. Back in the 70s and 80s they also had a completely open curriculum, but tightened things up in the 90's. We heard at their admissions presentation that they saw too many freshmen falling apart with Open Curriculum, so they created the more usual area distribution requirements. They also began paying much closer attention to students' guidance needs in the 90's, but that can be said about many other schools. It was a shift away from the anti-authority l960's, when kids didn't want to hear from anyone in administration. At Hampshire, they explained it in their presentation very well. Today, kids expect and will respond to adult guidance, unlike the l960's which spawned Hampshire.</p>

<p>They are quite proud of their length anecdotal reports, rather than letter grades.</p>

<p>Together, now, these 5 colleges comprise the Five College Consortium. WIthin that environment, Hampshire's considered offbeat and quirky, as in, you never know how smart or not someone is when you first meet him (acc to my S who went to Amherst). They also have courses right on the Hampshire campus, but Hampshire kids take most advantage of the free shuttle busses to go to the other 4 campuses. Their bus system runs well, like every l5 minutes, and is the largest free transit system outside of Disneyworld, a weird factoid. </p>

<p>The whole place looks like a big farm with dorms, and you can only understand Hampshire if you also visit (in person or by web) the other 4 colleges to see what they offer. FIguring out a schedule of courses is the trick, but with all those places you can usually put toether quite a good program of courses.</p>

<p>Still, the Hampshire degree is from a young, new institution. It doesn't have the long history and financial endowment of some of the other places you've mentioned, so they may not have as much available to anyone re: financial aid. Still, you never know til you apply.</p>

<p>They only build single rooms, for everyone, with lounges down the hall to socialize. That alone almost made it my D's #1 choice! (She got in ED at Oberlin instead, but if she hadn't she'd have definitely applied to Hampshire as her safety, with Amherst her reach school.</p>

<p>A famous graduate from Hampshire is Ken Burnes, whose documentary films on PBS include: The Civil War, America, and New York City. He began his work at Hampshire, encouraged by their "senior capstone project" which kids there call "my baby" to this day. They work very hard building up to it.</p>

<p>But in answer to your question, no, I don't think a Hampshire degree carries the same prestige as Amherst or Brown. Still, Hampshire can be the exact right fit for some students, especially if they want to craft their own program, don't have great SAT's, have some original ideas to pursue.</p>

<p>FOr EC's, the Hampshire kids go onto the other campuses, also. My S was in theater and choir, and there were always Hampshire students participating in all of those productions at every level, as well as a small box theater on the Hampshire campus. </p>

<p>One of the most unusual things I saw on any college tour was a tool workshop at Hampshire where somebody could, for example, build themselves a bookshelf or furniture for their dorm, with the guidance of a bearded tool guru/teacher who seemed to reside there!</p>

<p>I also think it would be great to get a written page about your coursework, rather than a letter. I recall them saying they will also provide a letter transcript in case you may want it in future years for graduate or professional school, so I wasn't sure how that worked. Worth asking about.</p>

<p>Remember, you can get plenty of feedback verbally from professors everywhere, regardless of their grading formats. They are all required to keep office hours, as part of their contract with the university. Most of them are sitting there, LONELY, just waiting for students to visit and make their required seatedness worthwhile! So you can imagine yourself going to ask any professor, how'm I doing, what can I do to improve, what direction do you suggest for me to pursue in this paper... as long as you come in with some preliminary work done. In other words, they don't do the work for you, but are on hand to help you understand how to proceed. To a much lesser extent, profs reply by email to questions, but of course there's are quickies.
It's very different from those hs teachers you may have had, who run out of the building as the dismissal bell is ringing...</p>

<p>If only my teachers actually waited until the bell rang. Most took a bathroom break during the middle of the class and just didn't come back. </p>

<p>You make a valid point about getting feedback from professors that do give grades. I just really want people to be able to look at my transcript and see something meaningful.</p>

<p>I think I've found my perfect college. It's close to home, probably relatively inexpensive, somewhat well-known and offers an intimate learning environment while maintaining all the facilities and advantages of a large research university.</p>

<p><a href="http://rcah.msu.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://rcah.msu.edu/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I might not necessarily chose that residential program (there are at least three others) but I probably would chose one. There's also the Honor's College, which I could gain entrance into by improving my ACT score by a single point.</p>

<p>Excellent to make progress and gain focus!</p>

<p>How many applications can you generate? I've heard of places that will also waive application fees upon request, if that's in the way. That usually happens by having your old GC (I'm sure s/he's old) write a letter that you're in financial need. Look for that opportunity on the admission sites.</p>

<p>On this site, most students are encouraged to apply to 6-8 places, with two "safeties", two "matches" and two "reaches." The list is personal, and comes after the kind of research you have begun. Look especially for their median ACT figures to help determine whether to think of a school as your safety,<br>
match or reach.</p>

<p>Beyond that, assume that you'll be attractive as an URM (under-represented minority) which will give you a boost. See if there's one admissions officer at the campus designated to recruit or guide URM's. If so, make a bee-line to him/her for help.</p>

<p>After you find some by website search, and also go into Petersons.com, you might get a list of 20-40 good places for you! Then, begin to narrow it down to 6-8.</p>

<p>It's good you know your way around Library U. We also spent lots of time sitting on the floors of bookstores, reading (but not buying) the books in the college search sections, such as Petersons Guide (which is also online), the annual U.S.News and World Reports edition called Top 100 Colleges, or somethng like that. Finally, there are some specialized books such as "Colleges That Change Lives."</p>

<p>Using the Searchword function, also look for previous helpful threads on CC about, well, anything! For example, "Colleges that give good Merit Aid" or use the searchword African American and see what comes up. Use your judgment about the many tired threads about Affirmative Action ("AA"), which is a divisive issue on this forum. Everyone says everything, so my advice is just don't let random comments get you down. "AA" was designed to right the wrongs through individuals, and you are an individual. </p>

<p>It can sometimes help to read the College Confidential section under Universities by alphabetic letter to see what other kids are writing about each place. Understand that sometimes, the kids who write here are anxious and hypercompetitive about grades, scores and such, so disregard that as best you can. Just glean the info, or ask questions on the sites and see if you can get answers. Facebook also helps to hear what kids are talking about, college by college. </p>

<p>FInally, you can probably go and visit MSU, take a tour (check out their Admissions button for the schedule). Tour doesn't necessarily mean an interview, so you can just go and walk around and listen. If you like it, after doing more research, THEN go back for a scheduled interview...as long as you can swing two separate visits. Others like to tour first, get coffee to think things over, then return same-day for an interview. </p>

<p>Good luck! You're doing great.</p>

<p>Schools with large endowments that can afford to give you $ aid....</p>

<p>Liberal Arts Colleges and Universities LISTED BY ENDOWMENT PER STUDENT </p>

<pre><code> Endowment Per Total Endowment

Student** Market Value**

</code></pre>

<p>NAME 2006 Rank* (06/30/05) (06/30/05) # students </p>

<p>Grinnell College(IA) 14 $893,666 $1,390,545,000 1556
Pomona College(CA) 7 $837,825 1,298,629,000 1550
Swarthmore College(PA) 3 $789,735 1,164,069,000 1474
Williams College(MA) 1 $748,146 1,514,248,000 2024
Amherst College(MA) 2 $698,469 1,154,570,000 1653
Wellesley College(MA) 4 $557,347 1,275,767,000 2289
Smith College(MA) 19 $361,572 1,035,542,000 2864
Bowdoin College(ME) 7 $344,786 578,206,000 1677
Haverford College(PA) 9 $336,788 394,715,000 1172
Claremont McKenna College(CA) 12 $315,208 336,012,000 1066
Middlebury College(VT) 5 $306,253 721,839,000 2357
Hamilton College(NY) 17 $287,572 529,708,000 1842
Macalester College(MN) 24 $284,891 541,293,000 1900
Bryn Mawr College(PA) 20 $280,279 498,056,000 1777
Harvey Mudd College(CA) 14 $277,207 199,589,000 720
Carleton College(MN) 6 $274,779 536,094,000 1951
Vassar College(NY) 12 $271,254 671,354,000 2475
Washington and Lee University(VA) 17 $245,384 531,992,000 2168
Colby College(ME) 20 $232,952 424,205,000 1821
Davidson College(NC) 10 $222,963 382,159,000 1714
Oberlin College(OH) 22 $218,498 617,693,000 2827
Mount Holyoke College(MA) 24 $214,832 460,815,000 2145
Wesleyan University(CT) 10 $203,413 564,879,000 2777
Colgate University(NY) 16 $177,456 502,378,000 2831
Bates College(ME) 23 $119,055 207,512,000 1743</p>

<p>Of that list of schools, Pomona, Bates, Oberlin, Bowdoin, and Amherst seem to stick out the most. I especially like Pomona and Amherst.</p>

<p>Rock on. Just remember, in the end, to have a list that ranges from "reach" to "safety" and you'll be fine. You've also identified a type of school that you intuitively feel will be right for you, as these are ALL excellent, small, liberal arts residential colleges, near but not in major cities. Anyone would be proud to attend any of these. Like everyone, I'll push you to add on the safeties..but later. For now, you're making progress to identify these, which are "match" and "reach." Pomona and Amherst are "reach" for everyone, even from a top prep school, because they have a small number of spots to give out. But you should definitely try for them. I know that Amherst has serious goals for ensuring a diverse community each year. Pomona was identified to me by a California cousin as "Amherst, but out West." So, there you go.</p>

<p>And, now that you know the "type" of school you'd like, you can look for similar ones (in size and location) but with easier admission standards (lower ACT ranges) and these can become your Safeties.</p>

<p>To me, the most important questions to ask, you've answered, which is: do I want to go to a university or an LAC? and do I want to be in a big city or not?</p>

<p>You are wise to have looked at the Endowment figures, too, since you say you'll be counting on Financial Aid. Remember to look up whether the school has an admissions officer handling URM applications. They can guide you from early on.</p>

<p>In case you are still considering Wooster: my daughter (also URM) who had the same ACT and unweighted GPA as you, was offered a nice merit award there (I believe it was $13,000/year) plus enough need-based aid to cover all but the FAFSA EFC. I think you would very likely be in the running for some good assistance from Wooster.</p>

<p>I'm still considering Wooster. It can be a safety along with Calvin College, Michigan State's Residential College of Arts and Humanities, and...I don't have another college yet.</p>

<p>My reaches are: Pomona, Amherst and Columbia University </p>

<p>My matches are: Lawrence University, Hampshire (probably won't give good enough aid), and Bowdoin</p>

<p>GapYear -- I'm glad to see Northeastern on your list. It has everything you're looking for -- plus the (in)valuable experience you'll get with their co-op (paid internship) program, which will give you an added financial cushion. NEU can also be very generous with financial aid, especially for high-achieving minority kids from outside the northeast. Having said that, I also believe that if you get enough FA from Pomona, Amherst or Columbia -- those schools are hard to beat. Good luck -- and keep us updated on your search.</p>

<p>Northeastern can be another match school. It's co-op program is its main draw for me. </p>

<p>I've been looking for some programs that are similar to Questbridge that accept students no longer in high school but I haven't been able to find any. Does anyone know of some?</p>

<p>I think I'm nearing the end of my search. College visits will be next.</p>

<p>I know that some engineering schools bring in URM kids during the summer for a 2 week boot camp--math review, etc.</p>

<p>Do you know of any schools in particular? I heard that Michigan Tech does a good job of helping underserved students catch up but I don't know of any specific program at MTU or any other school.</p>

<p>Knox College in IL-- my nephew started there and is at UIUC now on a 3-2 program in robotics. Check it out--you sound like a GREAT candidate!</p>

<p>bethievt, the 3-2 program you mention sounds perfect--except that Gap Year'd is a resident of Michigan, not Illinois. I don't think UI is extremely generous with out of state financial aid. Would he be a state resident for admissions purposes if he attended Knox College for 3 years?</p>

<p>I think it is the need for considerable financial aid that is keeping GapYear'd's list centered on in-state or private schools.</p>

<p>Maybe he should call UI and clarify where he would stand if he were transferring from an Illinois school on a 3-2 program.</p>

<p>Why not the SEAS at Columbia (in the NE)? Granted, it's expensive 5though</p>

<p>My nephew was technically a resident of Texas when he started at Knox,
though his parents were ex-pats. He got merit aid from Knox and I think is getting a good package from UIUC. Not sure about that though. His parents are happy with whatever he's getting. Knox is a private school.</p>

<p>I don't think I want to be an engineer anymore. My math background ends somewhere after Geometry and before Trig. My science background is pretty basic too -- and it shows in my scores. I had higher scores in English, Reading and Writing, and a decent score in Science ...and a pretty average score in Math (low 20's). Do you think adcoms will hold my lopsided scores against me? </p>

<p>Knox looks good. I'm still figuring out my list.</p>

<p>Safeties
MSU-RCAH
Wooster/Knox
Calvin College</p>

<p>Matches
Northeastern
Hampshire (I could take my Amherst courses...)
Lawrence U</p>

<p>(Ultra) Reaches
Pomona
Amherst (I could take my Hampshire courses...)
Columbia
UPenn
Dartmouth </p>

<p>Some other colleges I'm just throwing around are Bowdoin, Northwestern, Vassar, and Earlham.</p>

<p>I really like your process. And I think you're relaxing into the idea, appropriately, that if you get a fine Liberal Arts foundation for education, you will hear of more professions than you know now that could fit you even better than engineering, but be just as fascinating and productive. The idea is to have a long,happy, productive life and choose work that you'll love to do. Also, with the longevity we are enjoying, people have 2 and sometimes 3 careers, with midlife retraining, more and more. Sometimes their ideas when young about professions just don't pan out as they expected, so there's also time to change midstream. </p>

<p>I know that gappy scores with lower ones in Math or Science, if coupled with strengths in English, History, is a familiar "type" the AdComs would see. My younger two were definitely cut from that cloth. I've heard on this board of gappy or lopsided applicants being accepted at Oberlin, Princeton, and other places. </p>

<p>Focus on your strengths always, and you'll find a match. It's like a marriage. You can't be everything. The colleges want to find people to form a community of learners, so some kids offer something in one area, the next in another area. The AdComs are like people putting together an orchestra who need all kinds of different instruments (speaking as a metaphor here).</p>

<p>My D looked for colleges that had some accommodation to weakness in Math, which is why she went for Oberlin. Although they required 9 hours in Quantitative PRoficiency classes, this could be accomplished without the traditional Math l0l. She took courses in Musical Acoustics, for example. But I think she really was baaaaad in Math; you are saying you're just not great in it. So you don't have to avoid Mathy schools on her list as much she did. For her, it was essential to her strategy.</p>

<p>You'll meet kids in college who will dazzle you with how intuitive they are in Math, but then you'll dazzle them with how you turn a phrase or respond to a novel. That's the way it works, as a community of learning.</p>