help me get rid of a few of these colleges!

College Search & Selection
1

<p>The schools I'm considering:
-Denison
-Whitman
-Beloit
-Kenyon
-Lawrence
-Knox
-Middlebury
-Brown
-Carleton
-Grinnell
-Earlham
-Clark
-Wittenberg</p>

<p>I need to get rid of about 5 schools; I have another list of places I'm sure I want to apply to, too!</p>

<p>What I want (in no order):</p>

<ul>
<li><p>great academics, especially in psychology and English. Preferably also lots of opportunities for doing research as an undergraduate.</p></li>
<li><p>small (like 15-25 or so student), discussion-based classes. Interesting, accessible, enthusiasic professors.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>-easy to get into classes, even if you don't major in the subject.</p>

<p>-writing-intensive</p>

<ul>
<li><p>a beautiful, unified campus. Lots of big trees, green lawns, pretty buildings, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>either in the middle of nowhere, in a quaint little town (walkable and pretty compact- not just huge roads with fast-food chains and strip malls), or in a nice (not too much crime, not a lot of air pollution, etc) city. </p></li>
<li><p>opportunities for outside activies. Doesn't matter it is because the school is in the middle of a woods, or if it is easy to get out of the city (without a car!) and into the nature.</p></li>
<li><p>students who are eager to learn, unpretentious, and tolerant. (Probably don't want people who are too radical... wierd is fine, oppinionated is fine. Just not everyone-who-doesn't-share-my-views-is-wrong-and bad!) Preferably there should be a wide range of students, and the different types should mix somewhat. </p></li>
</ul>

<p>-diversity, especially socio-economic and geographical. </p>

<ul>
<li><p>a strong emphasis on internationalism, and a good study-abroad program</p></li>
<li><p>generous financial aid</p></li>
<li><p>not to much rain. Snow and cold is fine, but I don't like the rain that much...</p></li>
</ul>

<p>About me (don't know if it makes a difference or not...):
-2170 SAT (800CR, 740W, 630M. Will retake in the fall to try to get the math up)
-in the IB diploma program, getting 6s and 7s
-American living abroad
-several ECs, some with leadership positions</p>

<p>:)</p>

2

<p>Hmmm...it's hard to eliminate, because a lot of those schools are very similar. So I'm going to get a really narrow here...</p>

<p>First of all, if you don't like rain, take off Whitman. The pacific northwest is very rainy. Illinois get ridiculous amounts of rain too, so perhaps Knox as well. </p>

<p>Hmmm...and maybe Lawrence. It's not very geographically diverse. There is a decent percentage of internationals, but aside from them, the student body is very mid-western (and about 50% are from in-state). </p>

<p>I'd also take off Clark. Worcester is known for being...not a good place for students. Lots of crime, etc.</p>

3

<p>Those are four ideas, at any rate. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

4

<p>Have more to add! Dartmouth and Amherst seem perfect for you. I think you have too many safeties. You could easily remove places like Denison, Knox, Wittenburg, Earlham, etc.</p>

5

<p>Actually Whitman is in eastern Washington and does not get very much rain at all. Since the school matches your criteria very closely, I would not write it off.</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
I have another list of places I'm sure I want to apply to, too!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Psychgirl, It’s difficult to respond without knowing what other colleges are on your list and what’s the objective of this editing process. You have quite a range here in academics, geography, environment and selectivity. So I’m not sure where you’re headed. If you just want to increase your core list from 6 to 12, for example we need to know what’s already on the list.</p>

<p>First and foremost, you need to be more specific on your family’s financial situation. If you qualify for need-based aid, then you’re fairly unrestricted. If you want or need merit aid, then your list will look very different.</p>

<p>Secondly, have you traveled much in America? I ask this because we are also an international family and my son who grew up overseas had a hard time visualizing the difference between, say, Brown and Kenyon. After visiting, he understood that the difference is VAST.</p>

<p>I agree with Slipper that although you hardly need more choices, Dartmouth and Amherst seem good fits and I would add Williams to this group. Although these are all reaches, they fit very well with your wishlist: academics, small classes, writing focused, beautiful campus, balance of politics and background, internationalism.</p>

7

<p>please keep carleton. it fits your descriptions and has a very warm atmosphere/ppl (despite MN winters). everyone is friendly and honest; it's not uncommon to find ppl leaving dorm doors unlocked. </p>

<p>student pop is in the 1000s, so it's a wonderful community!</p>

8

<p>You might consider how you feel about core/ distribution requirements. If you want to chart your own path, places like Grinnell and Brown might move to the top.
You might also look into whether fraternities and soroties are key to social life and think about whether you like that or not.
Consider location and transportation (how hard is it to get to the nearest airport), though that will make a difference only a couple times a year. How close do you want to be to family or friends? Even if you to go home only for the holidays, you might want a place you can get away to occasionally.</p>

<p>Setting all that aside, the school that pops out from my perspective when you say writing is Beloit.</p>

9

<p>Psychgirl, your list is a tall order- doable, but lots of requirements. The red flag is "generous financial aid". That needs to go to the top of the list, and you need to be flexible on the other wishes. Do you know if you are eligible for need-based aid? Not all schools give merit aid. Luckily for you, many of the liberal arts colleges do. If you really need aid, you need to do research on that and include only schools that seem to give the type and amounts of aid that you need. If aid is just a wish, but not essential, then you are fine. Luckily, a number of your schools do give good aid.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
Psychgirl, It’s difficult to respond without knowing what other colleges are on your list and what’s the objective of this editing process. You have quite a range here in academics, geography, environment and selectivity. So I’m not sure where you’re headed. If you just want to increase your core list from 6 to 12, for example we need to know what’s already on the list.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>My objective is to get a good list of schools to apply to, that is not too long. I cannot apply to 20 places! I've already narrowed it down from 30 to 20. This next step is harder; I like all the places. What I want to do now is get a list of 10 or so schools that I definatly want to apply to, and another list of 5-7 or so colleges that I might apply to, if I have the time and energy. </p>

<p>The places I'm sure I want to apply to are:
Alfred
Colby
Macalester
U Tulsa
Yale </p>

<p>
[quote]
First and foremost, you need to be more specific on your family’s financial situation. If you qualify for need-based aid, then you’re fairly unrestricted. If you want or need merit aid, then your list will look very different.

[/quote]

[quote]

Psychgirl, your list is a tall order- doable, but lots of requirements. The red flag is "generous financial aid". That needs to go to the top of the list, and you need to be flexible on the other wishes. Do you know if you are eligible for need-based aid? Not all schools give merit aid. Luckily for you, many of the liberal arts colleges do. If you really need aid, you need to do research on that and include only schools that seem to give the type and amounts of aid that you need. If aid is just a wish, but not essential, then you are fine. Luckily, a number of your schools do give good aid.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I will qualify for need-based. My family won't be able to contribute much at all (perhaps a negligable amount, but hardly anything), regardless of what a college says their EFC is (which I don't know- should be fairly low). For sure the very most important factor is cost. I find the whole thing about financial aid very confusing. When it comes to need-based, I don't understand how to find out if a school is generally generous or not (even if two schools guarantee to meet 100% of need, you can end up getting lots more at one of the places)... Also, if a college gives both need and merit aid and you qualify for both, will the merit be in addition to the need-based, or will it go towards filling your need?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Secondly, have you traveled much in America? I ask this because we are also an international family and my son who grew up overseas had a hard time visualizing the difference between, say, Brown and Kenyon. After visiting, he understood that the difference is VAST.

[/quote]

I have travelled some, but it was a long time ago. I spend time in the north east every year, though. What is it that makes the difference so big? </p>

<p>
[quote]
You might consider how you feel about core/ distribution requirements. If you want to chart your own path, places like Grinnell and Brown might move to the top.

[/quote]

I don't like being told what to study; when I don't find something interesting, I tend to do much worse than if I like it. However, I find many subjects intersting, and really want to be able to try out lots of things. So, I don't think I mind distribution requirements (I'd probably want to take courses that fullfill them anyway), but I'm leery of core requirements. </p>

<p>
[quote]
You might also look into whether fraternities and soroties are key to social life and think about whether you like that or not.

[/quote]

I think I'd prefer if they don't dominate social life. I have no interest in joining one myself, but don't mind them around as long as everything doesn't revolve around them.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Consider location and transportation (how hard is it to get to the nearest airport), though that will make a difference only a couple times a year. How close do you want to be to family or friends? Even if you to go home only for the holidays, you might want a place you can get away to occasionally.

[/quote]

Good transportation is definatly a plus. I don't want to discard any school because it happens to be remote, though. After all, I'm already moving across an ocean, and will only be able to come home once, if lucky twice a year anyway.</p>

11

<p>Updated list:</p>

<p>Certain:
Alfred
Colby
Macalester
U Tulsa
Yale </p>

<p>Pretty sure:
Carleton
Grinnell
Whitman
Amherst (thanks for the suggestion! I've looked into it before, and do like it)</p>

<p>Confused about where to place:
Beloit (seems nice, but they have an uneven male/female ration?)
Knox (rainy)
Lawrence (not that geographically diverse)
Wittenberg
Earlham
Brown
Denison
Kenyon
Middlebury
Eckerd (added this one- forgot to add it in my original post)</p>

<p>Fairly unlikely:
Clark (Worcester)</p>

<p>THanks for all the help, everyone! :)</p>

12

<p>Psychgirl, my son, now at Lawrence was in the IB program, spent most of his life overseas and loves the school. He chose it over many other well known places because it appealed to his sense of what diversity meant and was the size it was. The Midwest appealed to him even though his US experience was with New England and California and his living experience was with Southern Europe. He had attended small personal schools all his life. He is very involved in Lawrence International House which is very active on campus since 10-11% of the population of the school is either international or US citizens from abroad. Thinking of your background, I thought this may be of interest to you.</p>

13

<p>well, Swarthmore fits your requirements perfectly. I'm not sure you would get in with your stats though. IMO it's certainly worth a try. the only problem, I guess, is that about 80% of the student body is liberal (just a guess!) and so we don't really have a diversity of political opinions. but otherwise it fits perfectly (small classes, 300 acres of woods, research as an undergrad, etc. etc.)</p>

14

<p>i think you already have enough schools just from your 'certain' and 'pretty sure' categories. if you want to add one or two more i'd go for low reaches/matches like kenyon or lawrence.</p>

<p>big reaches- yale and amherst
reaches- carleton and grinnell
low reaches/high matches- colby and macalester
match- whitman
safeties- alfred and tulsa</p>

15

<p>I was just speaking with a friend of mine who is an alumna of Whitman and whose daughter went to Whitman about 10 years ago. She said that she was disappointed in the difference in Whitman from when she went there and when her daughter went there. Her main complaint was that the school seemed to discourage discussion and different points of view. The professors seemed to believe that there was only one correct way of thinking. This is just an anecdote, obviously, so don't know how much weight to give it, but might be enough to push Whitman off your list.</p>

16

<p>
[quote]
Also, if a college gives both need and merit aid and you qualify for both, will the merit be in addition to the need-based, or will it go towards filling your need?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Merit aid goes toward filling your need. </p>

<p>Some of the schools on your list give no merit, but promise to meet 100% of need as determined formulaically, and at least of few of them give a generous, if not full, percentage of that need in the form of grants rather than loans. You might want to be sure to keep some of them in the mix as there is no guarantee of full merit scholarship, and anything significantly less than full merit could end up more costly then non-merit schools such as Amherst, Brown, Yale which meet full need.</p>

<p>The determination of need is based upon your expected family contribution (EFC) as determined by FAFSA, or, for those schools who use it, as determined by the CollegeBoard Profile (generally referred to as the "Intitutional methodolgy"). Profile assesses the family financial situation somewhat differently that FAFSA alone and can result in a higher, but also often a lower, EFC (i.e. more need). </p>

<p>You might want to take a look a the difference by doing some estimates based on your family's most recent financial picture. You can check out the CC calulator here to get a sense of your estimated EFC under FAFSA: <a href="http://www.collegeconfidential.com/financial_aid/efc/index.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeconfidential.com/financial_aid/efc/index.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And you can compare that to the result you get on the calculator available on the websites of a number of schools which use the Profile. Amherst is one such: <a href="http://www.amherst.edu/%7Efinaid/calculator/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.amherst.edu/~finaid/calculator/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Of course, all of this is simply estimated, no guarantee, but you might get a better sense of the difference, if in any, in need-based aid you might expect at colleges which use the Profile versus those which use only FAFSA.</p>

<p>You can check Collegeboard for a list of schools which use Profile. And you can also check the profile of each school you are interested in to see the % of students who receive aid at each school; the average amount of aid (again - what applies on average does not necessarily represent your family's situation, but is a way to compare one school to another); what the ratio of outright grants to loans is, and what is average amount of debt with which students graduate.</p>

17

<p>Oh yes, I forgot to add that her daughter ended up transfering first semester.</p>

18

<p>Kenyon truly meets a number of your criterion - it is writing intensive with a strong English department, a beautiful school with trees and green lawns but it is set in the middle of farm land and, it is not IN a quaint little town, it essentially IS the town, in and of itself, with the exception of a post-office which sits in the middle of the campus, and I believe a restaurant.</p>

<p>Denison is also a lovely campus. It sits atop a hill for the most part, lots of green and trees, but not necessarily rolling lawns. At the bottom of the hill is a real and quaint little town.</p>

<p>I think, but am not sure that Kenyon draws a marginally more geographically diverse student body than Denison.</p>

<p>To get home from either, you would have to take bus or van to Columbus, about 1/2 hour from Denison, a little longer for Kenyon, but from Columbus you could take a very reasonable Jet Blue flight to JFK in NYC.</p>

<p>Wittenberg is again a very beautiful campus set atop a steep hill just at the outskirts of Springfield. Springfield is a small city, not so picturesque, and just a tad rough. Of course, it offers a lot of student service opportunity. It is definitely a safety for you, although that might make it a better merit aid prospect.</p>

<p>All three will offer the small classes, presumably easy to get into, involved faculty. </p>

<p>Denison, I believe, has a reputation for a quotient of pretentious students and while there do seem to be some, ... there are also a lot of really great, down-to-earth students.. Service is stressed, research opportunities definitely exist, as do study abroad programs. It is very pro-active about making available relevant internships. And it is very serious about merit aid. </p>

<p>I know less about opportunities at Kenyon and more about its great academic reputation, but students there seem also have many research opportunities.</p>

19

<p>
[quote]
First of all, if you don't like rain, take off Whitman. The pacific northwest is very rainy. Illinois get ridiculous amounts of rain too, so perhaps Knox as well.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>walla walla has 300+ sunny days a year. western washington and eastern washington are like night and day in terms of weather (because of the cascade mountains and rain shadows and various other things i really dont understand). if you take whitman off your list, rain should definitely not be the reason. however whitman is somewhat lacking in diversity, its known to be a "white" school. i think its about 70-80% caucasian. if this is a dealbreaker for you, take it off your list. you also mentioned socioeconomic and geographical diversity and about 50% of whitman students qualify for need-based aid and i think around two thirds are from out of state. and also if you can live with the lack of racial diversity at whitman, walla walla is a city exactly like you described and whitman has great english and psychology programs.</p>

<p>hope this helps.</p>

20

<p>I really appreciate all the help! Thanks! :)</p>