Help me narrow down / add to my college list based on my stats / interests ?

College Search & Selection
1

Hello everyone :slight_smile: Just a warning this is VERY lengthy oops

I am a rising senior and currently have over 20 colleges on my list. I really love physics, chemistry, and math. Currently thinking about double majoring or doing an interdisciplinary major between physics and chemistry and minoring in math. I’m strongly considering a PhD. I haven’t decided whether I want to go into research, academia or industry, so I’d like to explore that more in college (I haven’t ruled out chemical engineering either so I want a school that offers all of these options). I used cappex’s admission probability to rank them based on my stats.

Reach: Columbia (dream school 1), Duke (dream school 2), Cornell, Dartmouth, Princeton? (high reach), Vanderbilt, Northwestern, University of Chicago

Match: UNC Chapel Hill, UVA, UC Berkeley, U Michigan Ann Arbor, Penn State University Park, Wash U St. Louis, Emory, Rice, UCLA

Safety: Purdue, U Illinois UC, U Wisconsin Madison, Boston University, Clemson, Emerson, U Rochester, Rensselaer Poly, Worcester Poly, Kenyon College

School Preferences:

[ul][]Lots of opportunities for undergraduate research (honestly I want to start freshman year). Definite deal breaker.
[]Strong research AND strong undergraduate teaching ie accessible professors (I’ve heard that although schools like UC Berkeley have fantastic research most of the opportunities are for grad students and the class sizes are huge)
[]I know this is superficial, and I won’t rule out good schools based solely on this… but I’d like to attend a school with a beautiful campus. I just love nice scenery and architecture and I know I would be happier in a picturesque place as trivial as that may be. I really really love the atmosphere of the Duke and Columbia campuses.
[]Size: Less than 20,000 and more than 2,000 roughly. Not a deal breaker.
[li]I’m intimidated by placed like CalTech and MIT because I feel like they might be too competitive of an atmosphere for me, and if research opportunities were available other students would stand out far more than me.[/ul][/li]
Finances:
My family is in the 100K income bracket. Reasonably my parents can probably only afford to pay 10K or less a year. I’d like to graduate debt free since I’m planning on grad school. I really liked Vanderbilt’s aid package that meets 100% of demonstrated need AND includes no loans… that would be ideal.

Personal details

[ul][]location - SC
[]gender - f
[]ethnicity - white
[]high school - magnet type school, best in state, top 20 in nation … not that it really matters SC is awful in education LOL[/ul]

Stats

[ul][]UW Gpa - 3.98 (freshman year ugh)
[]Junior year UW Gpa - 4.0
[]Rank - Our school doesn’t “rank” but my counselor told me I’m in the top 10%
[]SAT - math: 780 reading: 720 essay: 7/8 (retaking in August projected reading should be 760 ish)
[]PSAT: 1420… right at the cut off for national merit for my state, extremely frustrating. I won’t know if I made it till september.
[]Subject tests - chem: 800 (taking Math II and French in September/November)[/ul]

Classes (honors unless specified)

[ul][]Freshman year - bio, PE, comp sci, algebra II, french, english, global studies
[]Soph year - AP stats (5), AP art history (5), chem, precal, french II, english, global studies,
[]Junior year - AP Calc BC (5), AP Chem (5), AP Lang (5), french III, us history, theory of knowledge/thesis class
[]Senior year - AP Physics C mech, AP Lit, AP french, AP gov, AP macro econ, AP psych, DE Philosophy, Multivariable calc (yikes I know)[/ul]

Honors / Awards

[ul][]Chemistry Olympiad: 1st place tied in state local exam (its SC though…), 3rd place in state on the national exam
[]Science Olympiad: state awards- 1st place materials science, 2nd place astronomy (3 years in a row ;/), 3rd place dynamic planet
[]Grand Concours (national french exam): French I- 99th percentile (1st place) French II: 98th percentile (2nd place) French III- 95th percentile (2nd place)
[]Howard Hughes Medical Institute research scholarship: this funds my research which I’ll talk about more later & I get a small stipend[/ul]

EC / activities

[ul][]Mu Alpha Theta / math honors society (4 years) Vice president (3 years) in charge of coordinating community service tutoring
[]Speech and Debate (4 years) speech captain (3 years) I go to competitions but I kinda suck if I’m being honest. I just really wanted to get over my fear of public speaking (which I did) and improve my speech skills
[]Science Club (4 years) assorted science activities: Sci Oly, Junior Academy of Science meetings, ecology volunteering
[]Robotics Club (2 years)
[]Gay Straight Alliance (4 years)
[]National Honor Society (2 years)
[]National French Honor Society (2 years)
[]Philosophy Club (3 years)[/ul]

Work / Community Service

[ul][]I’m employed by a math tutoring company and I work 6-7 hours per week
[]60 hours of free community service tutoring 30 hours of random generic community service (one of my weak points I think)[/ul]

Research

[ul][]Sophomore year: I helped an astronomy professor narrow down some data from a solar isotope spectrophotometer to collect relevant information on solar flares. I was included on a poster at a very small physics convention.
[]Junior year: HHMI grant mentioned above. I’m working in a physical chem lab and we’re studying the solution behavior of a polymer (used in prototypical organic solar cells)[/ul]

Thank you so much if you read all of this. I wasn’t intending on this to be so long, but I don’t know how else to summarize my high school experience. I’m really stressed out because I just want to find that perfect “fit” college and not end up in massive debt.

2

Since you are out of state for all of them, I think every school you have as a match is actually a reach. They are very competitive schools. I think it’s a little strange you’re afraid MIT would be too competitive but list an Ivy as your dream school, and have many super competitive schools on your list.

Just from looking at this forum, I would say UCLA gives no money to OOS applicants (that goes for all CA state schools) so that would mean $60k a year out of pocket. Others probably know more about that.
Alabama offers great scholarships to OOS applicants.

3

Have you run the NPCs at these schools? With a $100,000 income, you will get little if any need-based financial aid from many of the schools on your list (unless you’ve got multiple siblings who will be in college at the same time as you). That will knock many of these schools off your list if you truly have a budget of $10,000 from your parents, $5,500 in 1st year loan, and $2,500+ in savings.

Also, I agree that most of your matches are actually reaches. Also, and sorry for this being harsh, but I think your safeties are largely matches from an admissions stance and are also likely to be unaffordable.

Why don’t you have U South Carolina and/or College of Charleston (Honors College likely) on the list? Clemson is a tough admit and it might be nice to have another affordable choice.

4

A quick note on your rankings:

Cappex’s algorithms notwithstanding, placing Wash U and Rice on the same level as Penn State as a “match” seems unrealistic. Those schools are going to have an admissions profile similar to Cornell (though their test scores will be higher). They are, in short, reaches, even for a high-stats applicant.

Admission to Kenyon has becoming increasingly competitive in the past few years. It might qualify as a match for certain applicants, but certainly not a “safety.”

Neither UVA nor UNC can be considered a sure thing for OOS applicants. Given the huge numbers of applicants at UCLA and UCB these days, the same can be said for these public flagships.

Emerson seems like the outlier on this list. I suggest replacing it with Swarthmore, which has the socially liberal atmosphere of Emerson, while at the same time boasting very strong STEM programs and a history of sending grads into top PhD programs and thence into academia (which is one of your expressed interests). I think that you would be a strong candidate there.

5

When I say competitive, I don’t mean in terms of acceptance rates, but rather the atmosphere. I know Columbia is competitive but from stories I’ve read MIT is more cutthroat.



Also my one in state safety is clemson. My guidance counselor has told me I will get good aid there. I would really like to leave SC though…



Thank you for the advice about UCLA and evaluating my match schools! I think the way cappex calculates acceptance probability is mostly by SAT scores and GPA so it makes sense that there are other unconsidered factors like you mentioned. I’ve heard UNC is particularly hard to get into for out of state applicants. reach/match/safety is a definite gray area and I definitely don’t mean to sound cocky by categorizing schools as match or safety it was honestly a guess.

6

Not that you need another reach on your list, but UPenn comes to mind for their interdisciplinary approach.
For a safety/match you could look at Case Western, and you may get merit there.

7

None of your “safeties” are safeties.

8

I would encourage you to apply to Rice (even if it is a reach rather than a match!). It checks off all of your boxes:

  1. Strong departments in your prospective majors, ease of double majoring, and plenty of research opportunities.
  2. Excellent undergraduate instruction and a greater focus on teaching than at some other elite universities. (Rice is currently ranked #1 nationally on Niche and #5 nationally on USNWR for quality of teaching.)
  3. Beautiful, pastoral campus located in a major metropolitan area. FWIW, I attended Duke, my daughter attends Rice, and I much prefer Rice's campus. The faux-Gothic look can grow wearisome after a while, and Durham always struck me as a rather depressing town.
  4. Moderate size (around 3900) and residential college system together combine many of the best aspects of the liberal arts college and the research university.
  5. A cooperative atmosphere fostered both by the institutional culture of Rice and the laid-back Gulf-Coast setting.
9

That’s fine my categorization was haphazard like I said it was mostly a guess based on sat scores, but any advice for other safeties then?? (also I put Clemson as a safety because probably one-third of my school ends up going there and just from grades and test scores I’ll get a Palmetto Fellows scholarship)

10

You’re right Swarthmore seems like a better fit, thanks a lot! oh yeah and I definitely don’t consider any of my matches a sure thing by any means … or even the safeties. you never really know.

11

Clemson is close to a safety being instate. the other “safeties” are for the most part school that do not like to be considered safeties. despite your stats you could be denied or waitlisted if you don’t show interest.

12

First with a budget of 10K per year you’ll need to look in-state to find a true safety. At the moment you can get a loan on your own for $5500 your Freshman year so combined with your parents 10Kish you can squeak by a school that gives you full tuition. You’d probably need a campus job for spending money and books and stuff.

Like others have said you don’t have any academic safeties either. You have a number that are a waste of time due to your budget. The OOS publics are hard to get into and don’t give much aid to OOS kids so even if you got in you couldn’t afford it. Lots of schools have aid to bring down cost to about $33K to $35K a year. You’ll need to find the ones that have Full Tuition or Full Ride scholarships and those are all going to be high reaches even if the school is a safety or match.

You can check Princeton, Harvard, Columbia, Penn and other need-based only aid schools’ NPCs and see what they say. Princeton and Harvard might have a COA for you of 10K a year at a parent’s income of 100K but of course getting accepted is a high reach.

The starting looking for school son your list that have scholarships that cover Full Tuition or better:

WashU - Various scholarships
BU - Trustees
Emory
Vanderbilt
Duke
UNC-CH

Some schools not on your list to investigate - USCalifornia, Mt Holyoke (all girls), Fordham, Various Public Flagships with Full Ride scholarships (UGa, Ole Miss, IU, UMaryland, Pitt, etc.)

If you make NMF then that will help with some other schools that give full tuition to NMF.

13

Rice doesn’t offer enough merit aid to get the cost low enough for you. Swarthmore is need-based only and I doubt it’ll have a COA of $15.5K or less that you need.

14

Good advice thanks! I’ll be sure to check out your suggestions

15

UNC Chapel Hill, UVA, UC Berkeley, U Michigan Ann Arbor, Wash U St. Louis, Emory, Rice, UCLA are all reaches assuming out-of-state for the publics.

It is my understanding that UNC Chapel Hill and UVA actually meet financial need of OOS. Michigan is able to meet the financial need of some OOS (upper middle class not so much so based on personal experience and what I have seen). UC Berkeley does not give any grants to OOS (not including federal grants). Penn State is not too great with financial aid for OOS either (usually).

IMO Penn State would likely be a safety for you for most programs.

The Duke and Columbia campuses and cultures are VERY VERY different (I have been to both and know people at both). What do you like about each campus and what are you looking for in a school?

16

@nebulium – I formatted your post earlier to make it easier to read. As others have said, drop Emerson and most of the OOS publics. That leaves you with a slightly more manageable list if you trim your reach options.

Reaches: Columbia, Duke, Cornell, Dartmouth, Princeton, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Chicago, Wash U, Rice
Slightly safer reaches: Carolina, Emory
Matches: Rochester, Kenyon
Safe matches: RPI, WPI
Safety: Clemson

Consider adding more matches and preferably at least one more safety (USC? College of Charleston?). Among universities, Brandeis, Northeastern, Case Western, Miami, and Tulane come to mind. There’s plenty of options among LACs, but you could begin with these:

Bryn Mawr (and/or Haverford)
Bucknell
Colgate
Lafayette
Oberlin
St. Olaf
Vassar
Wesleyan

You’d get a merit scholarship of $25K per year at Alabama, knocking the cost down to about $16,000 a year for tuition and room/board. @mom2collegekids has a son who majored in math at Alabama.

Run the Estimated Family Contribution (EFC) calculators. If you are absolutely set on Columbia and/or Duke, consider applying ED if it’s affordable. Your stats are in range for both schools, but the ED bump can make a difference.

Agreed, I’m surprised to see such different universities at the top of someone’s list. Columbia’s campus is in an extremely urban setting and absolutely tiny at 36 acres. That’s quite a bit smaller than the Sarah Duke gardens at Duke (55 acres), let alone the rest of campus. Duke is in a much smaller city, and the campus feels like it.

How recently have you been on campus? Durham has undergone a lot of gentrification in the last decade or so and has garnered multiple accolades for quality of life.

https://www.durham-nc.com/media/accolades/
http://durhamchamber.org/quality-of-life/community-profile/accolades
http://admissions.duke.edu/setting/region

*Of the rivalrous cities that make up the so-called Research Triangle — Chapel Hill, Raleigh and Durham — Durham 10 years ago was the unkempt sibling: scruffy and aging.

“There was no one on the street at night, just the smell of tobacco drying in the warehouses,” Mr. Beason said.

Now, a drive around town might yield the smell of clams from the coastal town of Snead’s Ferry, steaming in white wine, mustard and shallots at Piedmont restaurant; pungent spice and sweet fennel from the “lamby joe” sandwich at Six Plates; and seared mushrooms and fresh asparagus turned in a pan with spring garlic at Watts Grocery.

The vast brick buildings still roll through the city center, emblazoned with ads for Lucky Strike and Bull Durham cigarettes. They are being repurposed as art studios, biotechnology laboratories and radio stations…*

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/21/dining/21carolina.html

17

If UNC-CH says it meets financial need that includes loans in the package. Other schools will be like that also so you ideally would want a school that meets full need without loans. The only 2 schools that might cover your full needs and be less than 15K COA would be Princeton and Harvard but you can run the NPCs.

18

It seems that some of your listed choices, as well as some of the colleges suggested here, do not offer chemical engineering majors, excepting through programs with other schools.

Chemical-physics, btw, can be found as a major at some schools:

http://colleges.startclass.com/d/o/Chemical-Physics

19

In terms of beautiful campuses, several of your choices appear on this list:

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/the-25-most-beautiful-college-campuses-in-america

20

Your matches are reaches, with the exception of Penn State. Your safeties are not safeties …they are matches and reaches… with the exception of maybe Clemson and Emerson.

Your list has mostly academic reach schools with a few matches sprinkled in. Clemson, College of Charleston, U of South Carolina ( add these last two) should all be on your list. I would immediately remove Penn State, Illinois (?), UCB and UCLA- they won’t be affordable.

Now for the money. Your parents can contribute $10,000 at the most. You can take out the Stafford loan the first year. That means you can pay about $15,000 a year for college (?). You need to complete the net price calculators and see if the cost for every school you apply to is acceptable. This needs to be discussed with your parents. I think you can get merit at some of your state schools.

Your list has close to 20 reach schools. Remove most of them - leave yourself with about 5 ( give or take). Add 3-4 matches and 3 safeties.