<p>*this school does and will show suspensions on official transcripts. They already told her that if she was suspended, it would be part of her official record. *</p>
<p>Then she needs to seek legal advice because this could cause trouble later…such as applying for grad school, employment, etc. </p>
<p>On a scale of 1 - 10 (10 being very serious-dangerous) what would you say this offense is?</p>
<p>She likely will have to just take her licks and move on. She can work, do a language immersion program, do a year abroad with credits that will not count but will somehow be useful for her chosen field. She can come home and work.</p>
<p>She WILL have to explain if she tries to transfer in an effort to graduate at a new institution. She will have to explain if she tries to take an unpaid internship. If she plans on grad school she WILL have to explain her year off. Time to face facts, admit that something was done that was not appropriate. Likely the punishment outweights the deed done, but she can explain that in the future. She can hold her head up high, be truly sorry for what happened, and move ahead with life.</p>
<p>That said, exhaust ALL LEGAL AVENUES, but this may be what needs to happen when the legal aspects have been exhaused. </p>
<p>The improper thing to do is to spend a year “spinning” what happened and trying to avoid it or not really “tell” about what happened. If the suspension is on the transcript, better to face facts, and explain to future schools, employers, etc how one turned it around for the better. </p>
<p>Without more info there is little more to be recommended. Sounds like some sort of hazing or bullying if it is not academic or drugs/alcohol or a crime such as stealing/hacking etc. </p>
<p>Hugs and prayers. This will be a difficult time for all.</p>
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<p>She will only need to explain it to people that need an explanation and those would be only people that request a copy of a transcript or point blank ask. Many kids take a gap to raise more money, or take a gap because they are suspended due to low grades etc. etc.why someone took five years to complete an undergraduate degree it’s not a “normal” employment question. The typical employment question related to legal charges and did you receive a diploma and what month and year. I remember a recruiter I worked with a few years ago stomping around the department because a really good mid-life candidate he wanted to hire told him something that had happend during college decades earlier. It really upset the recruiter because it was “to much information” and it bothered him because it made him feel like the guy wouldn’t be able to “move on” when things went upside down. He could not understand why this guy would volunteer old information or why he felt like he had to ‘share’ that information when it was not asked for. Too much information can be as equally damaging as too little information. Just a caution.</p>
<p>I interview for incoming employees. We request a transcript from ALL new college grads. I would seek legal advice about whether this offense can be removed from her record if she completes the gap year AND returns to the college with no incidence for her final year. </p>
<p>You know…it is what it is. Regardless of the offense, or the seriousness of it, I would say, you need to look forward not backward. Figure out how to spend the next year productively. Then return to college and finish the degree.</p>
<p>Clearly the college finds this to be a significant and serious offense to suspend for a full year. That being the case, this student and family need to recognize and deal with the seriousness of the offense regardless of what it is. </p>
<p>Personally, I would suggest the student get a job of some sort.</p>
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It would probably be difficult for OP to be objective in evaluating it, since she is seeing it from the viewpoint of the parent and after the fact (no one was hurt, what’s the big deal). The school is seeing it from an entirely different point of view. The D feels like it is a gross injustice, but perhaps she is unable to grasp the potential consequences of such an action, since they did not, in fact, result in harm being done.</p>
<p>I think these recent posts are helpful. I work in state govt. and deal with professional licensing and disciplinary issues. I also interview and hire. This incident is not something D should try to hide, gloss over or blame others for as she goes forward after college. It will be on her transcript, and for licensing in areas like law, nursing, or probably most professions, she will have to provide certified answers to questions dealing with character and fitness. The young adults I have seen who are most successful in moving beyond this kind of event are those who accept responsibilty for their act, express remorse for it, have some understanding of what caused them to act in that way, and -most important - demonstrate rehabilitation.</p>
<p>With that in mind, I recommend that D spend her period of suspension in activities that will lead to or demonstrate her acknowledgement of her error and her growth in the areas of character and responsibility. It is positive I think that her school did not expel her and that although she feels an injustice was done, she loves her school and would return to graduate. I think it is better overall for her to graduate from that school as many employers might not even notice the suspension because so many students take more than four years to graduate these days. It would not be noticeable on a resume. Obviously, any employer or graduate program that requires a transcript or certified answers to questions will require her to explain the event and her progress since then, but if she uses this year for serious growth and reflection, she should do fine.</p>
<p>I think it’s absurd that a young person should have to drag something she did (if it isn’t a crime) with her for the rest of her life.</p>
<p>*I think it’s absurd that a young person should have to drag something she did (if it isn’t a crime) with her for the rest of her life. *</p>
<p>I agree!!! Especially when she doesn’t have real legal recourse.</p>
<p>Maybe that the position she needs to take with the school…the unfairness of having this drag thru her life without any legal recourse. Very un-american!!</p>
<p>Very un-fair.</p>
<p>And, if it’s true it’s a “he said, she said” situation, without any real proof.</p>
<p>Bullet- great suggestions, sometimes hearing those sorts of constructive suggestions helps the brainstorming begin.</p>
<p>OP- yes, I meant create your own study abroad, either at a university or simply at a language institute, no units, just fluency as the goal. I think it would work for health insurance plus yet not violate the university requirement not to be in college</p>
<p>I agree with the above comment about having the suspension removed from her record. I don’t know the violation, but based on the limited info here, I would ask the administration to allow DD to do something productive for the year and return to graduate. If she completes all that successfully, remove the suspension info from her permanent record.</p>
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<p>I totally agree especially if D should apply to graduate programs, the applications will ask straight up if she has ever been suspended or placed on probation for any academic or disciplinary reasons. She would have to answer truthfully.</p>
<p>If she is suspended, placed on probation or dismissed it would be noted on her transcripts or through the deans certification process.</p>
<p>Since OP does not want to share what has happened it is equally unfair to bash the school for using draconian methods especially because we don’t know what has transpired. A school does not lightly hand a student a one year suspension so whatever the student was involved the school must consider it to be a serious infraction of their policies. On the otherside of the coin sometimes things are handled internally through the school, because it becomes the “lesser” of 2 evils.</p>
<p>I am usually pretty hard on my kids’ school administrators - I have no problem in calling them to the carpet if I felt they were something inappropirate. But in my experience, I have not found any incidence where they tried to “screw” a student on purpose. More often than not, they try to give a student every chance before they put it on his/her record. When there is a choice of putting something on record vs asking a student to quietly transfer to another school, they would do the latter.</p>
<p>Whatever OP’s daughter did (I am assuming she actually did it), it shows her character and her decision making ability. As an employer it would be important to know. We have all made mistakes, and we understand young people tend to be more impulsive, what is important is how she is going to move forward. Again, that would also show her character, decision making ability, and her maturity.</p>
<p>Don’t most schools have a judiciary board/hearings before a punishment is handed down? Did the student admit guilt at this time? Did she have the opportunity? Is the unjust part that she didn’t do it? Or does the parent that the punishment does not fit the “crime” that she admitted to?</p>
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<p>This is quite possible, but…perhaps she is not guilty? The OP said it is a “he said/she said” kind of situation. Why is everyone assuming that the D is guilty? It is not clear to me that the D has even had a decent chance to defend herself yet.</p>
<p>Having been the object of a completely unfounded accusation of plagiarism–admittedly in HS, not college–I do not leap to assume guilt on the part of the student.</p>
<p>Without knowing the school or the offense, it is hard to judge what went on or who was guilty or innocent. That said, if it didn’t involve a criminal offense, the fact that she was suspended out in the ‘real world’ isn’t going to matter much, as someone who has been working and hiring people for a long time. First of all, transcripts generally are only looked at in first jobs, if with all my experience I went into a job now and they wanted my transcripts or asked for my GPA, I would terminate the interview, because it is ridiculous. In first jobs, because there isn’t much to go on usually on the CV, grades are an indicator to be looked at (though ironically there is a negative correlation with kids with high GPA’s and work performance, believe it or not) and transcripts will be there. Unless this was some high profile case that is living on the internet, like the recent Rutgers incident, I wouldn’t be too worried about it being permanently out there. Based on work and college experience, here is what I offer:</p>
<p>1)I agree, talk to a lawyer about this, make sure your D’s rights are totally covered. Whether meaning to or not (and mostly, schools act in good faith, there are few Javert types out there, and having been on a disciplinary board myself, I can say that directly) schools in an incident of any kind, whether it is perceived harassment or the like, can act without thinking. I had one case like that, where a foreign student trying to study in his room yelled something out them, a common expression in his own language, thatr was perceived by the kids he was yelling at as racist (basically told them they were running around the hall like bufalloes, they took it as a racial insult, which wasn’t the intent). </p>
<p>2)If you guys believe the penalty is unjust, appeal the decision, most schools have an appeal process. Suspending someone for a year is a major thing and based on experience I suspect if there is any room for doubt in the case, especially a he said-she said kind of thing, they may be willing to re-adjudicate the penalty. No guarantee, but if you believe it is unjust, appeal it.</p>
<p>3)whether you appeal it or not, if in fact they suspend your D, once everything is exhausted, here is what my thoughts are. I would make a statement that without admitting guilt, acknowledges that the process has spoken and that while I didn’t agree with it, I had to accept it, and that I will try to use the time suspended to figure out why things even got as far as they did (obviously, if I knew more I could give specific advice, but I wouldn’t want that even if offered). For example, if I had done a prank or something that got me in trouble, I would say that while I felt the penalty didn’t fit what I had done, I would spend time thinking about or learning about how a prank to one person is something horrible to another, acknowledge why others would feel it is serious. Even though if we feel we are innocent the desire is to fight it through and through, sometimes it is better to accept the reality IMO and find ways to start the repairing process. Showing signs that I at least understood where they were coming from to me means they see I am not totally clueless (in my hypothetical example, not saying anything about this specific post) and might make it easier down the road.</p>
<p>The other reason for doing this is (with or without a lawyer) the terms of the suspension might be negotiable (obviously depends on the school and their policies). For example, it could be if I showed some signs of understanding why they were acting and during my time off showed some maturity, like volunteered or was working, they might be willing to expunge it from the transcript (again, no way of knowing whether that would work here).
Could be they would say no way, and at that point there isn’t much you can do.</p>
<p>4)I would not try to transfer someplace else, for a number of reasons, assuming it is possible. besides the fact that your current school wouldn’t accept any credits taken, to me that would also show in effect a defiance of the school’s judgement/penalty. The idea of the suspension is to show the student acted wrong and if you try to go elsewhere, in effect it can be seen as negating the penalty/consequences. The idea of suspension is to delay graduation, and if you try to work against that by transferring or taking credits elsewhere, it can be seen as defiance. You don’t want to do that, because that could hurt you more then the suspension ever would. In the early days of your career you might want a professor to give you a reference (for grad school, for example), or more importantly, in some ways it is a small world out there, you never know who knows who. Might seem contradictory, but a student getting suspended probably would go out of people’s minds, but a student who tried to pull an end around might stay with the person, and that could get to the wrong person’s ears, so if someone asked professor A about a student who had gotten suspended, probably wouldn’t enter his mind; but ask about a student who was suspended then tried an end around, it could stick. </p>
<p>5)I would take the time off and either find work, an internship or do volunteer work. I think this would be a lot more valuable in many cases then taking classes, because believe it or not as a hiring manager that would show some maturity, of someone who had worked and done things. I can tell you unhesitatingly that things that show maturity and leadership and the like do count on getting jobs out of college; I was later told that one of the reasons I got hired at my first job was I had run a large student organization, plus had work experience in construction and some other places (even though it had nothing to do with the job I was hired for, that impressed them. Also, if the issue of the suspension did come up, it would show a level of maturity, instead of just hanging out, texting and playing video games or watching soaps or whatever (or perceptions thereof), you got lemons on the roulette wheel and tried to turn them into lemonade. Trust me on this, employers are going to be less concerned about the suspension if the kid shows they aren’t some head case, that they are mature and reacted maturely to what happened, and if in explaining that the incident wasn’t so cut and dried if asked about, they will be more willing to believe then if they see some kid is suspended and sat on their tail for the time off…:)</p>
<p>6)It is unlikely the suspension will come up after the 1st or maybe second job (depending on how long they last). Believe me, about all companies check after the first job is to make sure you have the degree you claim, after that GPA and such is meaningless, it is all job skills and experience, very few employers ask for transcripts beyond that first state.</p>
<p>As far as grad school goes, I would suspect it wouldn’t affect her that negatively, especially if the person had been working already, or shown other maturity, and especially if they were otherwise a good student. Obviously, this also depends on what caused the suspension, some things may weigh heavier, but I would guess that something like this might only be a factor with a borderline admit (just my opinion, obviously, not gospel, since I don’t work in grad admissions).</p>
<p>If the suspension does come up, don’t try and duck it (but don’t volunteer it either). Whatever the dispute was about, talk about it in as little detail as you can and make clear you don’t feel it was necessarily something that warrented a penalty, but that was the ruling and you used the time to do x,y and z… And quite honestly, most of the people interviewing you have been to school, probably have their own less then memorable experiences, so are probably going to not make a big deal about it (they could of course, but based on my experiences, not all that common), as long as you can talk about it, acknowledge that there was an issue, and that you worked past it, probably won’t be much of a factor with most people.</p>
<p>Most importantly, based on a lot of years experience, people make mistakes, people get fired from jobs, have conflicts, screw up in school academically and otherwise, very few people are perfect and most frankly have things they aren’t happy about. The key point is this isn’t the end of the world, especially since it didn’t involve academics or a crime, and this idea that any mistake will kill your chances is bogus. Once you get out of school and are working, once you are out there as a person, whatever happened basically will mean as much as high school detention I suspect. </p>
<p>I wish you and your D luck, I think she will be fine no matter what it ends up being:)</p>
<p>Many of the recent posts offer reassurances from “those in the know” that the dau can survive this, still be empolyable, certified, etc. That’s good. OP has not suggested her dau is innocent, only that it came down to he said-she said.<br>
However, it is up to OP to evaluate whether the infraction was, ultimately, something laughable, one instance of bad judgment, a common practice that only her dau was caught doing, etc. In those cases, sure, we tell our kids to take their lumps, go do something worthwhile, learn from it.<br>
But, if it reflcts a character flaw, some deep immaturity, etc, those will haunt the girl. Any good parent will take steps to remedy that.
I posted this before the lengthy one above.</p>
<p>Curious. How many people have any of you ever had to provide official transcripts in order to get hired?</p>
<p>I have applied for a lot of jobs and never had to provide an official transcript. I uploaded a Word copy of an unofficial transcript for on-campus interviews, but I’ve never had to provide an official copy.</p>
<p>Many of my employers have verified the degree. They do this by contacting the school and requesting degree verification. Disciplinary records would never be released as part of degree verification.</p>
<p>As far as professional licenses, I know of no boards that request or consider college disciplinary records. I don’t see that they will be concerned with what happened at college. If they were concerned, I don’t see how they could treat all license candidates the same (legal requirement of states) since most schools do not release disciplinary records.</p>
<p>OP, taking a year off (or gap year) shouldn’t be such a big deal. why so much drama?</p>