<p>I agree 100% with aliceinw.</p>
<p>One thing to be remembered. The OP and her daughter need to recognize that this offense was viewed as serious by THIS college. The daughter plans to return to this school. She needs to accept that this school viewed her issue as problematic. It will not be a healthy situation (in my opinion) for the OP and daughter to view this as less than serious considering the student IS returning to the same school. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>But again…time to move forward. The school has made its decision and the OP needs to help her daughter with a plan for the upcoming year that is productive, and will help reconcile whatever it was that she did.</p>
<p><a href=“It%20amazes%20me%20that%20sharing%20your%20NOTES%20with%20someone%20could%20be%20considered%20an%20honor%20violation!%20So%20your%20friend%20has%20to%20miss%20class%20for%20some%20reason–perhaps%20illness–and%20you%20share%20your%20notes%20and%20this%20is%20somehow%20cheating?%20Absolutely%20ridiculous.%20Or%20perhaps%20I%20misunderstood%20the%20story.”>quote</a>
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<p>He was preparing a paper and she gave it to him thinking he was only going to get ideas. **He used her information and so she was guilty of the code violation too for giving it to him. **</p>
<p>He was preparing a paper and she gave it to him thinking he was only going to get ideas. He used her information and so she was guilty of the code violation too for giving it to him. </p>
<p>He did used information from another person as is own without atributing the source (which was an honor code violation)</p>
<p>Responders can’t second guess what the infraction was. If one isn’t close enough to academia to have a good idea of the range of things it could be, one’s advice…
Some may want to re-read the whole thread.</p>
<p>-Lawyers - I agree they often can boil down a situation to its most relevant bullets and advise from their knowledge of the law. In the case of a school’s internal disciplinary policy, they usually do not know that “law,” so to speak. I am aware of a student disciplinary case in which an outside lawyer gave advice that would work well in a US court- keep your mouth shut, say nothing. (After all, in US court, “Innocent until proven guilty.”) It cost the accused 18 months. With no defense, the committee, after long agonizing, decided in favor of the accuser. Protecting her /suspending him became their only recourse.</p>
<p>Schools with honor codes take them very seriously. We toured a school with DD and they were very clear…violation of the honor code would result in a suspension. </p>
<p>Still, it’s not something to make light of or minimize…in the eyes of the this college it was viewed as serious.</p>
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<p>While I can see how he was guilty of an honor violation if he plagiarized, I still fail to see how she could be. She didn’t give him permission to plagiarize from her. Are students also forbidden to have conversations in which they exchange ideas and discuss sources and talk about what the prof said in the lectures? What’s the difference? What about study groups?</p>
<p>I really cannot see how sharing the notes you took in class with someone can be regarded as an honor violation any more than discussing the class material with someone could be considered an honor violation. Possibly if the students were required to submit their notes for grading, but otherwise it seems completely irrational.</p>
<p>Perhaps I am just being dense…</p>
<p>Please don’t hijack the thread…that’s a different question than the one asked by the OP.</p>
<p>If you’d like to discuss it, please consider starting a new thread with that as the subject.</p>
<p>(Since we are hearing a story from a poster whose daughter knew a person who… we really don’t have enough information to discuss it.)</p>
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<p>The alleged infraction was not a prank, nor a bullying incident, and in fact was a matter of perspective/appearances. I really can’t say more. Please stop guessing.</p>
<p>A suspension of 6 months has been handed down, effective immediately. She does not expect an appeal to go in her favor, and there is no reason to be optimistic. So now it’s time for some tough decisions. </p>
<p>There will be a readmission process at the end of 6 months, and she needs to find out whether that decision rests only with her department (which has already said they will re-admit her since she is a good student) or whether there will be input from the disciplinary folk.</p>
<p>The suspension will not ever be removed from the official transcript, even though most schools do. That is the sad part. Unfortunately in a real court of law, there would not be this ending, as evidence matters, witnesses matter, and the burden is to prove guilt rather than innocence.</p>
<p>Crazy, I suggest you ask the moderator to lock this thread. There are lots of very experienced parents here who would be happy to try and help you but since it doesn’t appear that you want help, no good can come of this thread. Best of luck to you and I hope your D is able to find something productive and worthwhile to do for her 6 month suspension.</p>
<p>blossom, the problem is NOT with Maria. She clearly stated in the OP that she does not want to reveal specifics. That has not stopped speculation and the begging for more info. Later, she clearly stated a lawyer would not be allowed to intervene in the college disciplinary process. That has not stopped posters from emphatically telling her she needs a lawyer. There was endless input about transcripts- “no one ever asked me” or “I don’t think” or “that’s not fair.” The solid repsonses from hiring managers were lost in the fray. And so on.</p>
<p>At a time like this, telling a mom she doesn’t want help because she won’t indulge posters…</p>
<p>Maria, we are sorry. Thanks for letting us know the results.</p>
<p>Sorry Looking- I don’t think the suggestion of the lawyer was for someone to go in there and start threatening litigation… but just to have a neutral party get all the facts on the table and help both sides look at the next steps with a clear eye.</p>
<p>If the U has an ombudsman that would be one solution. If not, a University chaplain would be another. If neither, speaking to someone in the U’s office of Risk Management or General Counsel’s office would be another. And if none of these, then having a lawyer, retained by the family, place a call to the Provost/Academic Dean can certainly speed up the process.</p>
<p>Nobody is asking the mom to indulge us, it’s just that the situation seems so inherently unfair to the D that people want to help.</p>
<p>My corporate employer asks for transcripts as a matter of routine. We look at GPA, the number of “W”'s, the number of incompletes, as well as any disciplinary infractions. Bottom line- there are thousands of new grads hitting the job market every year. Why take on the risk of hiring someone with a suspension if you didn’t have to? That’s why folks are suggesting a lawyer to help get the suspension removed from the transcript. It is a red-flag that will potentially compromise the D’s ability to get a job in some fields. And not just as a lawyer.</p>
<p>If it were my D I’d be working to have the suspension changed to a “withdrawal” after the 6 months. But I don’t think the parents are the best people to negotiate that with the university. IMHO.</p>
<p>crazy: it’s a done deal the she’s out for 6 months, OK. so now help her get a job or internship in the profession/industry she’s interested in. the relationships she can make doing 6 months of good work will overshadow a bad mark on her transcripts, and it might just help her network into a good job after she graduates.</p>
<p>so what industry or profession is she interested in, maybe we could help with next step suggestions.</p>
<p>Does 6 months start now, in October, and last through April?
So that essentially eliminates Fall 2010 and Spring 2011.
Hope the OP DD can get the appropriate courses and credits in Summer and Fall 2011 for a later 2011 graduation.</p>
<p>It’s all very well to say a lawyer would not be allowed to intervene-- but students and parents have rights just like anyone else. If this (whatever it is) were to happen to my D, I’d have a lawyer going through it right now and advising me exactly what those rights are. I would NOT depend so easily on what I was told by the college.</p>
<p>I agree with Gwen, when you go to a college you don’t sign away basic rights. I don’t think anyone who suggested a lawyer was saying to threaten to sue the school, but rather to ask them as a college student what rights her D has. Colleges are not perfect, miscarriages can happen, and especially if potentially there is something in the suspension that could harm D in some way, it may be wise to know from a lawyer what rights, if any, her D has going down the road. Plus quite honestly it also may help them get some piece of mind, a lawyer might be able to give them some confidence that this isn’t the end of the world.</p>
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Then please STOP posting, This thread would have died if you had not come back and stirred it up again.</p>
<p>No one can really help this situation as we have no facts to form the basis of reasonable recommendations.</p>
<p>Agreed sunnyflorida. The only thing that can be said is that the OP and D need professional help (what kind depends on the infraction) for damage control.</p>
<p>It is apparently too late now, but an attorney could also have given helpful advice on how to best present the daughter’s side of the story and how to deal with the factual allegations against her. </p>
<p>This is true even if the college’s procedures did not allow an attorney to be present during the actual proceedings. The attorney could still have acted as an advisor and coach, without actually directly appearing on behalf of the student.</p>
<p>OP - I hope all works out well for you and your daughter, although I’m not sure whether that means her taking responsibility for what she did or making the best of an undeserved punishment.</p>
<p>If she is innocent, not only will she have to explain the situation throughout her life, but any explanation that involves her claims of innocence will most likely be disbelieved by many who hear it. I suppose in that regard, it would be better if she were guilty - so many guesses and prodding for details on this thread are, I believe, our wish to know so that we don’t have to contemplate the reality that sometimes the innocent are found guilty and none of us wants to believe this could happen to your child or ours.</p>
<p>Best of luck to your daughter moving forward.</p>
<p>If the suspension is effective immediately then your daughter is losing a year of school and the tuition that has been paid for the current semester. I do not see why you have not contacted an attorney to advice you/daughter on what your rights are. I understand that you do not want to disclose what the infraction was but it seems to me that it must have been very embarrassing. Most of the parents on this forum have heard it all and for the most part they are not judgemental. I wish your daughter the best of luck and now it is time to move forward and make the best of the remainder of the year.</p>