Help! My daughter wants to become an English Professor

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<p>Unless you have a compelling reason to do both degrees at once (an interest in religious law, history of law, comparative legal systems), how are you going to get the necessary letters of recommendation? I can’t imagine saying that you want to do two very different degrees at the same time without giving some justification. Most graduate students in humanities at top programs really are immersed and rather consumed by their area of interest and that imho is what encourages “famous in the field” professors of good character to support them even though their job prospects are almost nil. </p>

<p>I am completely wrong about many things and maybe this is one of them. But I don’t see why someone would even want to do JD/PhD unless their area of specialization required studies in both areas.</p>

<p>edit: I think it would be more “fun” to do the degrees consecutively :)</p>

<p>It’s very common to do JD/PhD degrees sequentially, or to start a JD after getting to ABD status in a PhD program, and to finish one’s dissertation during or just after law school. It is much, much less common to start both at the same time, and I think there are only a few fields where that would make sense (history, economics, sociology, maybe psychology). And I would think that the interest in a joint degree had better be communicated upfront to the non-law department. The law school would be unlikely to have a problem with it, although many would probably insist on a dedicated first year, or at least first semester.</p>

<p>A JD/PhD is a great option for those people with a high interest in both, but I would suggest it as a compromise or back-up for someone who doesn’t have a very strong interest in law school. Otherwise, it’s just going to feel like a drag on her, and she won’t be doing well enough to get a faculty position in english. A JD/PhD program probably doesn’t take any less time than the JD and PhD done separately…</p>

<p>But I echo those that say you should let her pursue her own interests…</p>

<p>I love how the response to a daughter who wants to do X and not Y is to try to convince her to do X and Y, at high levels at the most elite colleges in the country.</p>

<p>What about this?
When the goal is to be a professor?</p>

<p>An English professor has two equally impressive students, who have just finished PhDs, and there is one tenure track job advertised. One has just asked for law school recommendations…</p>

<p>This discussion of how much of a risk someone takes by trying to be an english prof reminds me of everyone who makes a big deal of how Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard to found Microsoft and how that was so risky. Dropping out of Harvard didn’t mean anything. He could have gone back at any time. Same goes for trying to become an english prof–you can switch to a more traditional route later.</p>

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<p>Just don’t ask the English professor for a recommendation. Use someone else. Recommendations don’t mean much in law school admissions anyway. You don’t want to have a bad one but a good one is not going to make up for the all important GPA/LSAT scores.</p>

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<p>^Words of wisdom, IMO.</p>

<p>Ok, it was a different era, but I can tell you my Dad’s Lib Art professor retirement KILLS the retirement of all my white-collar uncles. We were the poor cousins growing up (although having full summers off, or at least half of one if he taught summer school, was pretty cool.) but if your daughter get tenured (not as easy any more) and lives a good long life, you won’t need to save for retirement.</p>

<p>You’ll probably have to buy her a house and she’d probably be happy with a solid cash gift every year for the first 10 to 15 years for sure.</p>

<p>But you can’t really put value on doing what you love to do. Encourage her - and keep her room, she’ll be using it for a while.</p>

<p>Oh, and I know a lot of lawyers out of work at the moment. No sure thing there.</p>

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Sorry, finding it hard to believe that the poster above (english007) is a new poster, has been teaching English for ten years, or is making that reported income. I’d think he/she’d spell “lucrative” correctly if he/she really taught English. ;)</p>

<p>catera45 wrote

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<p>Catera, in a way this would seem the obvious solution. But, in my experience, those who actually succeed in becoming tenured professors frequently have very supportive and involved mentors. I don’t think leaving that sort of mentor out of the loop would be a good idea at all. Some (many ? :)) will disagree with me and depending on individual circumstances your advice might be the best.</p>

<p>JHS wrote:

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<p>^^yes - my opinion also</p>

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<p>edit: oh no - if you guys are going to start judging on grammar and spelling and word choice, I am in big trouble. </p>

<p>off topic edit: I don’t post on the student threads. It becomes very confusing to me on the parent threads when I can’t tell whether parents or students are posting, but sometimes it is obvious.</p>

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<p>From what I’ve seen of academics at various universities and at conferences, catera’s solution would be much more prudent. Though not every academic in a non-professional department is like this, there are many academics in the non-professional fields who would take umbrage at a student for expressing an interest in a PhD and law school/professional school as they feel it shows “lack of dedication” and “seriousness”. </p>

<p>Even if a given student is admitted to the joint professional degree program and his/her PhD field…some fields/Profs. are much less open-minded about this arrangement than others. </p>

<p>This extends even to the STEM fields as an MIT grad student friend in a non-engineering science field recounted how his department’s Profs were shocked and outraged when several of their PhD students were revealed to have also simultaneously enrolled themselves into the Sloan School of Business when those students walked across the graduation ceremony stage to accept their MBAs. From that point forth, they instituted a policies to try discouraging that practice.</p>

<p>cobrat, since I am not an English professor perhaps my point wasn’t clear. If you want someone to support you in an academic career for the rest of your life or theirs, don’t tick them off by going behind their back.</p>

<p>edited to add: ymmv</p>

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<p>My point is that if you happen to meet the wrong academic…being straightforward about one having a “plan B” as your advocate is a great way to lose that support anyways. </p>

<p>This loss of support can range from cessation of all further support altogether including writing recs to writing lukewarm recs or provide quiet warnings to the student’s grad school department which ultimately impedes his/her access to getting the same access to advising/support from faculty as “more fully dedicated” PhD students in that department. </p>

<p>Many academics in non-professional fields…especially those from the old-school tend to take a dismissive attitude against students who aren’t viewed as showing near/full dedication to their academic field. Said student must take precautions to minimize the negative consequences if they encounter such academics in undergrad or moreso…grad school.</p>

<p>cobrat - be sure you have someone to write you recs</p>

<p>biting my tongue and sitting on my fingers</p>

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<p>I did…over ten years ago. Though one should provide enough information to allow them to write a helpful rec, that doesn’t mean one should be an open soul to said academic…especially when the information being revealed is likely to cause him/her to cease further academic support or to lessen it to the point it may as well have ceased.</p>

<p>I had this discussion with my son as well, and although it is up to him, I reminded him that the very best profs I had in college, were ones who brought a lot of life experience with them. My advice was, “Live your professional life and then bring that experience to your second career as a professor when its time.”</p>

<p>I too wanted to become an English professor but was steered towards law school after completing my BA and MA in English, interrupted by Peace Corps service and teaching English overseas. My decision not to pursue a doctorate in English was influenced by the fact my wife was in a doctorate program in linguistics at the time, and we were advised that securing teaching positions for both of us in the same city or area would be highly unlikely. Additionally, I concluded a law degree would be useful protection in a world that was becoming increasingly adversarial and corporatist. Ironically, shortly after beginning law school, while I continued to teach English, my spouse switched to an MBA program. We both subsequently found our employment niches, yet were always more “process-oriented” than “product-oriented” when deciding what we would study. My advice to the OP is to encourage her D to explore her interests to find out who she will become. It is a long journey through multiple degrees with many twists and turns along the way. Promote the journey; the destination will take care of itself.</p>

<p>I recently took an honors level composition course with a well liked professor. Come the end of the term, we were required to fill out evaluations for him. Up until then, he was cool and collected. Before handing out the evaluations, he almost broke down telling us about how he had worked there for 10+ years without a tenure making <25k a year. Just to afford a better lifestyle, he worked two other jobs. He had been shooting for a tenure because they make >60k a year. He also told us to never go into english if we can’t help it. It is too diluted a field and considered by many a hobbyist field.</p>

<p>Seems like the institution made the right choice in not making him a professor.</p>