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<p>I think she means it is “tough” to get tenure as an english professor or even get a faculty position. Med school is competitive, but once you get in, you’re going to become a doctor. Getting into a PhD program isn’t a guarantee of tenure. </p>
<p>Different professions are tough in different ways.</p>
<p>Several years ago one of my friends was a top history student at a top college and loved it and could have easily gone on to get a PhD in history at a top university. He was concerned over the job prospects so he asked a history grad student if he should get a PhD in history or go to law school The grad student’s response: “Do you have an independent source of income for the rest of your life?”</p>
<p>My friend is now a very successful partner at a law firm.</p>
<p>It’s funny-- we all do much more communication in writing than we did 15 years ago. The ability to write persuasively and vividly may be the most important skill anyone learns these days. It’s ironic that we quote people who write for a living to discourage someone from studying English!</p>
<p>Things change at warp speed now-- we can’t predict the future for any profession. But we can know that someone who is studying with passion is likely to go far further than someone who is on a long stairway toward a “safe” job. If you want to game the future, follow your strongest desires with all your might, and you’ll be leading the pack instead of trying to follow the prescription of some magazine writer.</p>
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<p>I wouldn’t discourage anyone from studying English per se. An undergraduate English major is extremely versatile. The issue is going for a Ph.D. with the hopes of becoming a professor. That’s a different issue than just “studying English.” Ph.D.s take, on average, 8 years. I don’t know too many people who can afford to be in graduate school for 8 years and not know if they will be able to get a job afterwards.</p>
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<p>This is one perspective. I know people who believe attending a fully funded PhD program, while waiting out an absolutely terrible economy, may be an excellent idea. Both are interesting views in my opinion. I don’t really see how we can help our kids plan for an increasingly unpredictable future.</p>
<p>except like this:
;)</p>
<p>I always wanted to be an English teacher but was “coaxed” into doing something more lucrative by my parents, who were both teachers and struggled financially. I have an MBA from a top 5 school and have had a very lucrative career because of that degree (and presumably my own skill, but the degree definitely helped open doors).</p>
<p>I’m going to give you the same “let her follow her dreams” advice but only because I met many, many folks in my MBA program who had former careers, including professors, dentists, engineers, etc. Many of them used their former degree and experience to carve out a new role for themselves in the business world. Some completely switched careers. (I’m married to one of those.) So what I’m saying is that she can <em>always</em> go back later if this doesn’t pan out the way she likes. There is very little to lose by starting the way she wants to start, rather than wondering what it would have been like.</p>
<p>I still sometimes dream of being an English teacher, but when I looked into the financial reality of it a few years ago, it just didn’t make sense for me, especially with kids in college. Perhaps if I had already been one, I would at least know if the trade-off is/was worth it!!</p>
<p>When I was a first-semester sophomore, no one (including me) had any doubt that I was on my way to becoming an English professor. I was taking graduate courses in the best English department on Earth; I was the official undergraduate pet of a famous professor; there was nothing else I wanted to do. Two years later, I understood enough about what the lives of English grad students, junior faculty, and even senior faculty were like to question whether I wanted to join them. I had stuck a toe in the real world by way of an internship with a Wall Street bank, and I knew that I could actually earn a living outside academia with the skills that made me a good literature student. I had also watched a favorite cousin, a prize-winning assistant professor at Princeton, be told that no one in his cohort would be considered for tenure because the department had to shrink, and spend three years desperately looking for a job before accepting what was essentially a writing instructorship at a directional state college in the middle of nowhere. (And he was thrilled to get it, and has been there ever since, completely retooling his academic interests and ultimately serving as department chair for a decade.) I talked to my mentors about it, and their take was “You are comfortable in either world, and that means sooner or later you are going to leave academia; no one stays who has another choice.” </p>
<p>So I went to law school instead – that was an option then – and it worked out pretty well. I knew 10-11 classmates who entered English PhD programs, and only two of them have had careers as English professors (and one of them is a non-PhD poet teaching writing courses exclusively). Most of the rest wound up in law school a few years behind me. I don’t think any of them regrets going to graduate school, though. The best English student I knew, the one who couldn’t possibly miss as an English professor, left graduate school after four years and is sort of a free-lance right-wing public intellectual now, heaping scorn on multiculturalists and the ACLU.</p>
<p>My parents never said a word about any of this, by the way, unless I asked them, which I didn’t much.</p>
<p>My daughter also decided between her second and fourth year that she wasn’t cut out for the struggles of English PhD-dom, and is happily embarked on a career that engages her analytic and writing abilities and has actual jobs available sometimes. Her roommate/BFF is applying to English programs right now. And what everyone is telling her is pretty much what they told me 30+ years ago: If you can imagine yourself doing anything else, go do that. If you can’t, come on in.</p>
<p>tell her what you told us,tell her that your just concerned that if she would be happy to be a professor for the rest of her life.tell her to be really sure if she really wants to do it.because you should choose a profession that not only you love but also provide you with a secure well future,because at some point of life your love for work may stay but your financial prob might make you feel that you should have concidered other options,that is reality.you just give her options,but always support her dreams,and if she says its really what she wants to be a professor and ok with mediocer life,then just encourage her.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t try to choose my kid’s career path. I’d encourage any college student confronted with a decision on course of study to spend some time in the area. Talk to people who are actually in the career and find out what they like and don’t like. Ask them how things have changed, and what challenges and opportunities face new entrants to the field.</p>
<p>The ideal thing would be some kind of internship or part-time work that would provide more direct exposure, but that won’t work in every field.</p>
<p>It would also be worth talking to people partway through the process. It’s nice to think about the ideal of being a tenured professor at a great college, but the reality of first spending years completing one’s PhD and then bouncing around as a postdoc, associate professor, adjunct, etc., with little hope of a permanent position may be sobering. Then again, some people might not object to such a lifestyle at all.</p>
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<p>Exactly. I know an undergrad who was heading for an PhD/academic track in neuroscience until a summer research internship gave her first-hand experience the lifestyle she would experience for many years to come, even with great qualifications. She changed her focus and headed into the world of business after graduation.</p>
<p>I think it is important to not push. I think if you have concerns you should express them. Then stand back and let your daughter live her life. Almost everybody has those days when they wish they had chosen differently. The ones who chose for themselves do just fine. They either make some adjustments or remember why they picked what they picked the next day. It is not your job to push her anywhere, just caution her when you see something you don’t like. I would be asking her if she plans to write as well. The more you know, the more you can teach.</p>
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<p>Wouldn’t “all-purpose major” better describe a double major of a humanities major like philosophy, English, or history and a quantitative major like math, statistics, or physics? (And throw in some social studies like psychology, economics, etc. as well.)</p>
<p>Ucb: I don’t think you have to double major in anything; that’s the point of a liberal arts degree, that you can take courses in subjects other than your major. Certainly, double-majoring is an option, but I think it may unnecessarily limit one, especially if you go to a school with a core curriculum. Part of the point of college, I think, is to explore different subjects, and if you restrict yourself too severely or too soon you lose that freedom. “I majored in English and minored in Physics” sounds pretty good to me, too, although I don’t know many people with that kind of mind (my daughter, a physics major, and I discussed just yesterday, in the context of her Shakespeare course, why she prefers physics and is better at it, even though she also enjoys literature. She is very happy that she can take Shakespeare pass/fail, while she majors in Physics with a linguistics minor).</p>
<p>Back in the dark ages, I graduated with a double major in chemistry and English, with honors in both. As a senior I seriously considered graduate school in both of my majors, but in all honesty, it was my English professors who convinced me to choose chemistry (which is what I finally did.)</p>
<p>I loved my English classes and adored my English professors. I remain friends with several of those professors to this day. Although they loved their chosen careers in academia, they were honest about the significant drawbacks: primarily, the incredible competition to land tenure-track positions (and this was in the seventies and eighties) and the journeyman-like paths that such careers may require. To a man (and woman), they would not recommend it to their students. I took their advice to heart and chose chemistry, even though I really loved English; I know even then that I just didn’t have the stomach for that kind of impermanence, job-wise. That may be fine for others, but not for me.</p>
<p>I did find a great job with my chemistry degree (although that didn’t pan out so well, eventually!) And the skills that made me a good English student made me a great research chemist - especially when it came to publications. My point would be: if anyone REALLY wants to be a professor, that’s fine, go for it - but go for it with your eyes wide open.</p>
<p>About 20 years ago I began steps to earn a PhD with the goal of teaching college. I abandoned the idea after speaking with several professors. STRONGLY encourage her to talk to college English instructors under the age of 40. She needs to contact those at her school and also at other schools.</p>
<p>I abandoned the idea after hearing 3 separate folks tell me what life was like when you aren’t full time. The commute to teach at multiple institutions to earn enough income was not ideal to me. Add to that adjunct/associate professors often do not have health care & benefits. For some, this is ideal as it permits flexibility. A Writer friend thrives on teaching as an adjunct.</p>
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<p>In practice, many students take the minimum possible courses in unrelated subjects. This is especially true for English and other humanities majors, who often do their best to avoid math and science beyond what very little is typically required as breadth for graduation. So many English majors end up doing something that is not really “all purpose”.</p>
<p>My S, a senior, is currently planning to apply to graduate school in linguistics, after a year of working, hopefully abroad. All I wanted for his undergraduate experience was for him to fall in love with something that enabled him to fully express his intellect, which is considerable. At last he seems to have done so. You have to do what you love. My advice to him is to find and do his damnedest to get in to a fully-funded program. After that, I have to have faith that he will find a way to make a living doing something he derives satisfaction from.</p>
<p>Let her pursue her dreams, but be specifics as to what, if any, financial assistance you can provide. Here’s my story why:</p>
<p>My best friend from HS & college was pushed into law school by her over-achieving parents, although she would have preferred something in journalism. (These parents would be seen as major helicopter parents even today - she was also raised in a bit of a bubble - had no idea how to balance a checkbook until she was 25) Since she was a good writer & public speaker, she did OK in law school and got a job as an associate in a small firm. Her first assignment was to prepare closing docs for residential real estate deals. She had no idea what to do, so she calls me (the accountant) nearly in tears for guidance. </p>
<p>Fast forward 6 months - she’s admitted herself to the psych unit with a complete mental breakdown and was diagnosed as bi-polar. </p>
<p>Fast forward 20+ years, she’s working in a menial retail job to pay her living costs (parents bought her a condo). She never returned to a legal job after her first hospitalization. </p>
<p>As a parent you should ask questions and politely challenge why they are approaching things a certain way and suggest options (I typically preface these with ‘Let me play devil’s advocate’, so my kids know I’m asking them to dig down and give me an answer from the heart. Also they know this might not be my opinion, I’m just asking them to prove their case. ).</p>
<p>I suggest encouraging your daughter to explore this career path further, perhaps by (1) finding out about what an honors project in English would involve and perhaps taking on this challenge; (2) seeing whether there are undergraduate teaching assistant opportunities or tutoring opportunities that she can apply for in the English department or the university’s Writing Center; and (3) going to her TAs’ office hours, getting to know them (or some other graduate students), and asking them what life in the early stages of this career is like.</p>
<p>An undergraduate honors project (which means some sort of scholarly research) is a particularly valuable experience because it gives the student a taste of what graduate school would be like. Often, doing one can help solidify a young person’s decision about whether to give graduate school a try.</p>
<p>HS english teacher can make a lot of money tutoring for SAT, GRE, GMAT, stuff. I know some teacher bought her husband an airplane.</p>