Problems with daughter

Parents Forum
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<p>Hello everyone. This is my first post here and I am looking forward to receiving some neutral advice.</p>

<p>My daughter is away at university at a highly competitive school, one of the best in the world. She is a very hard worker, ambitious and an overall sweet person. I hate to see her in the situation that is developing.</p>

<p>She has been at XYZ for a year and is coming to the end of her first year. She is an engineering major with a minor in English. So far, she has had to drop some core engineering classes and math classes due to not being able to sustain a passing grade. In other words, she is failing her classes. Her biggest wish is to be an engineer she says, although honestly I never have seen any interest in engineering on her part in all of her 23 years. She got into the university on a fluke in the first place ~ my ex-wife works there and my daughter barely scraped in with the necessary requirements. In fact, she had to have one of her classes at community college upgraded from F to C in order to squeak in to XYZ.</p>

<p>I am still having to pay a certain amount of tuition ~ it's not free ~ and that amounts to about $10,000 out of my pocket this year so far.</p>

<p>Here is my dilemma: </p>

<p>Due to my daughter dropping classes, she is way down on the number of units that should've been completed by now. She is significantly short and the grant aid that she receives to be able to attend is going to be pulled if she does not have the necessary number of units by the end of the summer. She is going to have to take summer classes to achieve the 16 units that she needs. Right now, she is burned out. I can tell by talking to her that she is just totally burned. What to do? Should I insist that she take a break? Perhaps a year off? And then return to campus after that year?</p>

<p>Here are the issues:</p>

<p>I will have to pay for summer school out of my pocket in addition to everything else I have paid for. This will entail another $9000 just to pay for summer classes and housing.</p>

<p>I am concerned that my daughter is not cut out for engineering and that she will just not admit it.</p>

<p>I am concerned that all my daughter is thinking about is the money she will make out of school, even though she has not completed one single engineering class.</p>

<p>My daughter has changed her major once already during this school year from one field of engineering to another and is even considering changing it again.</p>

<p>I am concerned that she has zero aptitude for engineering and that an employer is going to realize this.</p>

<p>I am concerned that my daughter is depressed because she lives so far away from home and hardly sees the family.</p>

<p>I am concerned that I am throwing money away.</p>

<p>I am concerned about her mental health. Her roomie emailed me yesterday to say that she had been crying all week and was very stressed. I talked to my daughter and she cried to me on the phone that she was a failure.</p>

<p>Please help. I don't know what to do or what to advise. My daughter has already seen advisors but she has a deep seated insecurity that she is being judged as not being as smart as the other students. Therefore, she sees the advisor but nothing gets resolved.</p>

<p>My feeling is that she should change her major completely into a different field for which she has a talent/flair but my daughter will not entertain the idea. I feel that engineering is all wrong for her but I don't know how to tell her without crushing her. People may say that she should drop out but what then? She will NEVER get into XYZ again if she drops out. She has been given a chance that will never be replicated at this level again. The opportunity is golden and something that cannot just be lightly discarded.</p>

<p>Please help.
Joe</p>

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<p>Joe, can you add a few details: what year is she? Is she 23 years old?</p>

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<p>Why does summer school have to cost $9000? Why would you have to pay for housing for summer?</p>

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<p>My daughter is finishing her first year at XYZ. She is 23 years old.</p>

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<p>@siliconvalleymom ~ summer school costs $9000 at XYZ. This is the tuition for 16 units plus the cost of housing, materials for the classes and dining plan. I have to pay for housing because the school is a plane flight away from home.</p>

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<p>Joe- the world is filled with talented and successful and happy people who neither attended XYZ nor ever took an engineering class. So I think the first step here is for you to take a deep breath. Yes, it is wonderful that your D is there and equally wonderful that she is getting a world class education for what is a relatively modest sum compared to other options, but keeping her at XYZ isn’t the be all and end all of life.</p>

<p>The solution needs to come from your D. She’s the one who needs to realize that she may or may not be cut out for engineering- or that she could be an engineer but not at this college- or she could stay at this college but not in engineering.</p>

<p>Your job right now is two fold. First to remind her that you will always love and support her. And second to tell her that her next step is to meet with a counselor at health services to talk about how she’s feeling about life, and to meet with an academic dean (or program advisor) to talk about her academic status, credits, etc.</p>

<p>After she does those two things you will have a talk to review how she’s feeling and what it will take to keep her at the university. She needs to hear from the pros what her options are; reminding her that she’s struggling in engineering without even having started the engineering sequence, from a parent, is the last thing she needs to hear! She knows that!!!</p>

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<p>She needs a year off.</p>

<p>Also, if you are able to offer some generalities on key info about what kinds of courses she took in high school, what kinds of courses she took in other schools, how she did in those courses, and why she choose engineering, which in my opinion, is the most difficult undergraduate curriculum; harder than the first two years of medical school from a conceptual basis, and harder than most non-engineering graduate level curricula.</p>

<p>My niece was in a similar situation a few years back, but she was able to make an effective recovery after readjustment of course work and some tutoring help.</p>

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<p>Can you schedule a visit to her advisor with her and get their input</p>

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<p>To touch on a few of your concerns.</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Most engineering schools don’t allow their students to choose their major, or area of concentration, until the end of their second semester. Even then it’s not uncommon to change again after that. The fact that your DD changed her mind once during her first year is no red flag.</p></li>
<li><p>You mention several times that you feel your DD has no aptitude for engineering. The point is she is an adult and it’s her choice, not yours. Your job is to support her until she says she wants to do something else. Engineering is very hard and at many schools the first year is a weed out process where many students choose different areas of study. If your DD chooses that it has to be HER decision. If she wants to continue with it, doesn’t make the grades, and looses her grant, the decision will be made for her. You are no longer the ‘coach’, you are the ‘cheerleader’.</p></li>
<li><p>As your ex-wife works at the university is it a possibility that your DD could live with her for the summer so the only expense would be the tuition for summer classes?</p></li>
<li><p>Most importantly, what does your DD want to do?</p></li>
</ul>

<p>Lastly, I sincerely hope you do not portray the attitude to your DD that you have here…that she got in on a fluke (giving the impression that she doesn’t have the ‘chops’ that the rest of the student body does).</p>

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<p>Rangerjoe this link is insightful on challenges faced by Engineering students. <a href=“Why Science Majors Change Their Minds (It’s Just So Darn Hard) - The New York Times”>Why Science Majors Change Their Minds (It’s Just So Darn Hard) - The New York Times;

<p>I have a friend whose son was in similar situation like your daughter and he ended up taking a year off from college and completely changing major. Same challenges with high summer fees and low GPA</p>

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<p>Agree with the above posts. There is no magic answer or even one perfect answer. Your D needs to work with the services available at her U to figure out what will work with her strengths and passions. Please do reassure your D that you DO love her and will support her choices but she needs to work with resources at her U to figure out what path is best at this moment, for the summer and future. If the term is still going, have them help her get through this term and have a plan to meet further to figure out the future.</p>

<p>Crying in front of room mate and again when talking with you is a big red flag. Please take it seriously and work with your D to help her resolve these issues.</p>

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<p>@blossom ~ you are correct. The decision does need to be hers but while I am paying school bills the decision is also mine. I am not a wealthy man and I do not have the luxury of throwing $100 bills at my child and saying “go do what you want. It’s OK I have tons of money!” She has met with counselors but nothing seems to go anywhere or get resolved. She has also spent the week in tears and that concerns me greatly. She already knows I love her.</p>

<p>@polarbear ~ I agree with you. At least a semester off would be something. I think she has flamed out and needs a rest. She has always done well in school but I think she takes on too much.</p>

<p>@blue iguana ~ I do not mean to be careless with my words. I am only trying to paint a full picture so that perhaps other people who have this same or similar experience can tell me what they did and/or what worked for them. You are correct. If she loses her grant, the decision will be made. I also can’t be just a cheerleader. It is my job to steer my daughter along the path to independence and her own income. If I’m paying for the degree, that gives me some rights in how the money is spent. If I think my daughter is pursuing a degree that looks like it’s dead in the water, shouldn’t I say something? I would never dream of calling my child a failure but I think she may be setting herself into a position of calling HERSELF a failure.</p>

<p>What do people do when their student is failing at the chosen major?</p>

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<p>Your D is 23. What has she been doing over the past years since HS? Does any of it give her joy? Has she considered getting more education related to any of those jobs/hobbies she’s engaged in since HS?</p>

<p>I think it makes sense to take a BIG step back and ask that you be tele-conferenced in with the folks at her U so that jointly you can figure out what the options are and make informed choices. As you say, resources do have limits and it makes sense to want to have your child get an education that will allow her to make a living.</p>

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<p>Engineering in general is one of the toughest and most exacting majors and not everyone will succeed at it despite a ‘wish’ on their part that they do. Some engineering majors might be tougher for her than others so that’s relevant as well - if she’s doing poorly in one, for example electrical engineering or computer science, she might want to switch to another, for example civil engineering. She might find one more suitable for her than another. OTOH if she’s doing poorly in math then she’ll do poorly in any engineering major.</p>

<p>A lot of people (at many schools 25%-35%) who start out as engineering majors switch to a non-engineering major after a semester or two. There’s no shame in this - it’s just a reality. They discover they either don’t really like it or that it’s too difficult to comprehend or that it requires too much work.</p>

<p>However, if she hasn’t already done so, she really needs to get to the bottom of why she’s doing poorly since although it might be because the material is too difficult for her, it also could be due to other factors such as poor study habits (in which case she should be able to address it if she wants to - there’s help at the college for this), a distraction of a BF there or elsewhere (picture texting every other minute all night long), other distractions such as over-socializing, playing video games, FBing all night long, IM’ing her 300 closest friends, etc., alcohol or drug issues, and possibly some kind of depression for some reason which affects motivation and concentration.</p>

<p>If she doesn’t figure out what the issue is then switching majors might or might not help.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Yu don’t have to support stubbornness and failure. And she knows she can’t cut it and the sooner she realizes it the better, acceptance is key. It’s like you have a kid who has no sports ,skills whatsoever and and they want to be a pro player. How much do you sink into an obviously impossible goal?</p>

<p>And I can see getting in over her head at a school she wasn’t ready for. Then choosing a tough major not because she likes it but because it may make her some money.</p>

<p>Let her fail. If she is too stubborn to admit she is not the engineering type, then the chips will fall and she will lose it all, sadly.</p>

<p>What to do? I wouldn’t pay for summer school unless she changes major. </p>

<p>My daughter has no acumen for foreign languages. She squeaked by in hs and college. Would I say, sure, lets pay for more language classes u may not pass. Reality needs to take hold.</p>

<p>Your d is letting her pride take over and she must let that go. If she takes a semester off to figure it out, come home take other classes </p>

<p>She is 23. You don’t have to chearlead forever.</p>

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<p>This doesn’t sound good.</p>

<p>Do you have any idea what your daughters SAT scores were in math or the hard sciences (physics, chemistry)?</p>

<p>And I hate to bring it up but how did a grade get changed from F to C? It almost sounds as though, based on your description of the advisors being unsatisfactory that your daughter may have developed one of those syndromes where people are looking for someone else to “assist” them. It sure won’t happen in an engineering curriculum.</p>

<p>I would also say that if math SAT wasn’t 700 range, engineering is going to be “greek” to a student. Maybe someone in the 600-650 range can deal with it if they are motivated, but its not easy.</p>

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<p>Why don’t you ask her to take a break from the engineering courses. Yes, it can add to her time in school, but it can also have her see that she has aptitude and interest in other areas. My DH’s cousin dropped out of college due to engineering and never went back. He most certainly could have made a go of it at other majors. He was not a math type person and it was too much for him at that level.</p>

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<p>What do people do…? They either figure out the major isn’t working or they fail. </p>

<p>You’ve already given her a “pass” b/c you’re paying for summer school, but you need to make it painfully clear that she should spend this time reconsidering her major. Don’t forget, you’re paying the bills: you can tolerate the mistakes, but you also make the rules. Your daughter is old enough to realize this can’t continue.</p>

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<p>@Himom ~ those are my sentiments precisely. I have told my daughter (nicely) that she should be focusing on those majors that genuinely interest her and for which she has flair. So far, she is refusing to budge from this engineering dream and honestly I think that’s a mistake. If I’m pushy then I’m pushy but my feeling is that I should be steering her to make obvious choices.</p>

<p>@Gladgraddad ~ I agree that if my daughter is doing poorly in math then she will do poorly in the engineering core classes. The problem is, I want to arrive at this conclusion with her BEFORE I part with $9000 over the summer on a bunch of classes that are going to be disregarded because, let’s say, she changes her major to Underwater Basketweaving. j/k And I also agree that there is no shame in switching majors to something more suitable to her personality. I just don’t want to go bulldozing all over her dream. The curriculum IS difficult and it IS hard work. However, I feel that something else could be at play … distractions? time wasting on the internet? poor study habits? Not studying at all? I am at a loss to explain why she consistently is dropping core engineering and math classes because she tells me she’s studying but, just lately, I don’t think she’s working hard enough. I think she is feeling disillusioned with herself and with school.</p>

<p>@seahorsesrock ~ You have written what I have been secretly thinking. Summer school, however, is still involved because my daughter has to make up for lost units. If she doesn’t make up the lost units she will lose her grant for next year which is worth thousands. I believe that engineering is NOT for her. I just don’t know how to make her see it because you are correct ~ she is prideful and stubborn. She has so many other talents in so many other arenas but no real interest or talent (dare I say it) for the heavily technical world of engineering.</p>

<p>I am obtaining a good idea of how to proceed from these comments. Thanks everyone.</p>

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<p>@dadx ~ I agree 100% with your post. I’m going to be honest and say that her SAT scores were middle average. Nothing spectacular. Physics has always been a nightmare class for her but she got through it. I am sure that everyone must be thinking that I am a total idiot for allowing my daughter to go to an engineering school given all of this but my feeling was, if it’s her dream and she does well then hooray. If she wakes up to reality, then hooray too because then she’ll select a major that suits her. Right now, we both are down to the wire. I don’t want to write a check for $9000 knowing with a high degree of certainty that this major is not what my daughter really wants. I don’t know why she’s so hell bent on it. I think it has everything to do with status. I feel too that by paying the $9000 I am adding to her pressures to succeed but I don’t have a choice in it. I guess you could say that this is the price I am paying for not being more forceful in helping my daughter to select the ‘right’ major.</p>

<p>@cptofthehouse ~ I talked to my daughter and asked her to take time off. She says she’s OK and that she can handle it. Even as I’m talking to her she’s yawning on the phone, telling me she’s exhausted. I feel that I just don’t have a game plan. I don’t want to run her life, quite the contrary. I just want to get her on the right road, let her live her life, pass her exams, make an income. We need to get something set in concrete now though. I’m going to have to pay for summer school. If she changes her major, we can take some of those corresponding classes over the summer rather than a bunch of useless classes for an engineering degree that is NOT going to happen.</p>

<p>@limabeans ~ I agree with you too. I do not want to cater to irresponsibility but I am going to have to come up with a plan in the next week or so. If my daughter stays at XYZ, the money is already spent for the summer. She needs the summer to make up for lost units to keep her grant for fall. It would be wonderful if she would just pick a major that both she and I know she would excel at. How to do it without killing her dreams though?</p>