Help needed filling out daughters college list (LACs/small research)

College Search & Selection
21

Allegheny is a potential safety/safe match. It’s fairly strong in the sciences, and only a small handful of the selective liberal arts colleges (i.e. Harvey Mudd, Pomona, Lafayette) have more students majoring in STEM fields. Every student participates in research and produces a senior thesis.

Ohio has several schools well worth a look – Ohio Wesleyan, Wooster, Denison, etc. They’re some of the top producers of PhDs in biology and are a bit more laidback than many of their northeastern peer schools.

Lawrence (WI) and Kalamazoo (MI) are excellent options as well, and the latter has an emphasis on civic engagement that she may like.

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Thanks folks. Just to clarify, we have no illusion about the schools I put on the “match” list. It wouldn’t be a shock if she gets accepted at none (or all) of them. It’s impossible to tell, of course. I could just as easily list them all as “reaches” and Bates as a “match.” Either way, it reveals just how important it is to identify the best schools possible on the lower end of the list, which is where we are struggling a little.

I think she has a good chance at Oberlin, which we didn’t visit and so don’t know how well she would fit there. I also suspect she will get into Rochester, because of their focus on recruiting IB students and her status as a third-generation student there, but I think she’d prefer a LAC if she had a choice (e.g., Bates). Rochester has terrific science programs, though, and she’d get a wonderful education there.

I thought that would be the case about Lehigh (too Greek) but thought I’d raise it. It may be true about Lafayette, too, from what I’ve read about it.

Does anyone have any insight to share about Richmond? It is mentioned a lot here, and numbers-wise it would seem to be a more likely admit for her than the schools already on her list, but we don’t know what the vibe is like there.

We haven’t thought about Dickinson. I’ll check it out. Smith is interesting, too. I didn’t know about the science facilities there. It seems like some of the LACs are more humanities-based (Bennington?), so the science programs available at each is a big consideration.

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@EllieMom , Colby’s acceptance rate is now 9.5%. But yes Rochester would be a good option for the OP.

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Don’t forget to show these schools “the love”/demonstrated interest, especially safeties and matches.

Smith is very strong in sciences. As is Bryn Mawr.

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Our daughters sound very similar (although mine would like someplace a little more urban) in terms of grades and competitiveness of schools.

We visited Oberlin and loved it. Really loved it. It’s a lovely school with what appeared to be the happiest students we’ve seen on any campus. Our tour guide was a Fulbright finalist and simply a nice, smart, engaged kid.

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Smith and Mt Holyoke are both excellent in the sciences. Bryn Mawr as well. Good merit at Holyoke and Bryn Mawr and all three are in consortiums where she can take classes at other colleges. I totally agree with whomever recommended Grinnell. Great school and seems like a great fit mine got about 20k merit there… St Olaf might be worth a look if you are checking out Carleton. Kenyon and Whitman might be worth a look too. Case Western is a small to medium research college combined years ago with a liberal arts college…has lots to offer.

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@RayManta

I remember your earlier post when you began the process of crafting a list. Here are some thoughts:

She doesn’t want to attend a “city school.” What does that mean exactly - I’m assuming Manhattan, LA, Chicago, yes. However, by my definition Harvard, Brown, and Wash U are located in cities, albeit not in incredibly dense or sketchy areas. So what’s the line in the sand? I ask because my older daughter is not a city person but she was comfortable at Wash U, Brown, Macalester (St. Paul), and Case Western (Cleveland). Case Western would check many of your daughter’s boxes and the Greek life there is more academic/community service oriented so it might appeal.

Is Washington DC too urban?

Oddly, my D also did not like Wesleyan but loved Oberlin, where she enrolled. I have spent time on campus there and have not found it liberal in the extreme. However, I suspect there may be some variation according to one’s major - gender studies and film studies are probably more resolutely politicized than STEM fields or the Conservatory. PM me if you want more details.

I suspect that Bucknell, Lehigh, Richmond, Duke, UVA may be too Greek/preppy for her taste.

In addition to your stated reaches being reaches, Bowdoin, Tufts, Wellesley, Middlebury, Colby, and Bates are also reaches these days (my definition is anywhere with a < 20% acceptance rate). Small size of LACs make them even more unpredictable and Tufts is said to practice yield protection.

I like Oberlin, Rochester and W&M for matches and Vassar for a viable reach. The town of Poughkeepsie has some run-down areas but it’s also close to beautiful outdoor recreation opportunities.

Agree that Dickinson might be a nice match for your D. There is a semester “abroad” in DC program, an emphasis on sustainability on campus, and diversity of political opinion among the students.

Given that Wellesley is on the list, maybe take a look at Smith or MHC as slightly easier admits that are not urban.

Good luck as you move forward.

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Anyone have any thoughts on Kenyon? I’m mentioning it because I know a kid who goes there and spent the first 2 summers (HS to Freshman, and Freshman to Sophmore) doing scientific research. Kid jokes about it being in the middle of nowhere but likes it and is happy for all the research opportunities.

29

Adding my two cents that since you’re okay as full pay, she should strongly consider applying ED and then ED2 (if that doesn’t work out) if she has strong first choices. Will boost her chances significantly at high reaches.

She’ll have options regardless. Good luck!

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Actually I just want to comment on your mention of being full pay and it will hurt. Your daughter has stats that can likely attract some merit. Since for many education goes beyond undergrad we made a decision to maximize on this. Our D applied to top LACs that offer merit. She did well and now has funds available for grad school. Something to think about. I don’t feel like she compromised at all on anything.

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Case and Dickerson were both mentioned and both have EA if that’s of any interest. I googled colleges with EA and came across a blog from Prepscholar that listed all the EA schools last year.

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Definitely check out Colgate and Hamilton. (They are only 30 minutes apart.) Colgate just finished their Third Century Plan so exciting things are happening there. Also why not look at Brandeis. It offers undergraduate research opportunities.

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I love all the probing questions and this is terrific info. I can’t respond to all of your points but I appreciate and will consider all of them.

Tufts, Harvard, Brown: She doesn’t think Tufts is as good a fit for her as the LACs–it may actually be one to drop off her final list if we really want to limit her to, say, 12-15 schools. She visited Harvard on a lark just to see what the fuss was about when she had an extra day during a New England college visit trip, and totally fell in love with it. I can’t tell you why the urban location isn’t an issue for Harvard, yet it is for CMU and Penn, and why she had such a different view after visiting both Harvard and MIT. It just is and we have to believe that she knows where she belongs. I suspect the presentation hooked her. She also says she loved the vibrancy of Cambridge. Brown: I think she loves the idea of the open curriculum, and believes that she will be surrounded with kids like her there: kids who are smart and have a zillion interests. She doesn’t think it is too urban.

She isn’t really willing to go to Ohio, but I’ve told her that I think Oberlin may be a good school for her to apply to, and she may give in on that one. I suspect she’d resist heavily if we suggested the other Ohio schools unless there was a good reason why they were better choices than similar schools in the mid-atlantic or NE.

While she is willing to go to New England, I think she agrees that the upper midwest will be too cold for her.

The ED/strategizing thoughts are wonderful, and is something we talk about and struggle with. She doesn’t really have a #1 choice. She probably has a top five: Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, Bates, and Brown, in no real order. Number six might be Swat. But if they are #1A, !B, 1C, 1D, and 1E, then Harvard is #0, and we struggle on whether it is worth blowing the ED slot on a school where she has a 5% chance of admission. But I think she wants to give it a shot.

34

Another safety/match to look at is Union College. Excellent for sciences. About the right size. Not too urban.

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@EllieMom I am a Rochester grad. I told my daughter about the Take Five option, and she really digs the idea.

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Adding to the shout-outs for both Smith and Allegheny. Great science curriculum options at both - and friendly & beautiful campuses to boot!

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What about Union, Bard, and Skidmore? Franklin and Marshall? Maybe Connecticut College, too. They may be similar in quality to the Ohio schools, and she may be more willing to look at them due to the location. Anyone have any insight there? Rhodes may be too urban and too southern for her taste.

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I think her chance of admission to Harvard is less than 5 percent. To use someone else’s terminology, you really need to think of Admissions to select colleges in terms of buckets. There’s the recruited athlete bucket with probably the highest percentage chance of getting in, the legacy bucket, the URM bucket, the low SES bucket, maybe the viola playing bucket. What bucket does your kid fit into? I’m under the impression from what you’ve posted that your kid would fit into the same bucket as a lot of other kids (white, female, upper SES). Depending on the school you might get some geographic diversity points. But I bet when you look at the percentages being accepted from your bucket into Harvard, it’s less than 5 percent.

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Apologies if I’m repeating things you’ve already heard; I can tell you’ve done a lot of research, and I may have missed something in the thread: First, surprised not to see Princeton as a reach…if Brown and Harvard are candidates, and she’d like something less urban, it seems worth considering. Second, if the geographic restrictions are at all flexible you might want to explore some of the schools that have been mentioned such as Carleton and Grinnell, as well as Rice, Pomona, Whitman. Those are great schools and if Harvard can somehow get a pass on the ‘not urban’ criterion, perhaps those would pass muster for reasons you can’t know without considering. If so, that’d open up the possibility of other, less selective LACs out west that might offer good merit. Frankly, those schools will probably fit better with the not privileged, ‘ordinary’ but interesting cohort she’s seeking than will some northeast LACs. Third, along the lines of looking at merit schools…your daughter seems like the type that might thrive at the right public university honors college. Might be worth a look for the match or safety category.

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According to the Harvard data released in the lawsuit, unhooked kids had about a 2% chance in the RD round and an 8% chance in the EA round. But Harvard seems to believe they get a lot of well rounded kids (like your daughter) through their legacy, URM and Athlete admits, so in the unhooked kids they look for something spectacular which stands out. YMMV.

Those lawsuit numbers are getting old now, and if anything it has gotten even harder. I think OP’s guess at a 5% chance is a good one for EA, vs. probably 1.5% or so for RD.